1st GT3 RS in Guildford
Discussion
stefan1 said:
So, some very early driving impressions after 100 miles. Not using more than 5k rpm, or frankly any of the performance.
First positive surprise is how good the steering is. I had a 991 C2S for a couple of years and really did not like the electric steering. The RS feels good. It's not like the old 997 GT3 helms; it does not chatter to you all the time, but as you soon as you put an input in, it starts to talk to you, and report back what's going on at the road surface. It's also super accurate.
The front end just feels wonderful. So lovely on a trailing throttle into a corner.
And perhaps the biggest step forward over the 997 4.0 that I used to own is the compliance. The old 4.0 litre was too stiff at the rear for road use. I used to drop the tyre pressures on the road to make it more driveable. But the 991 needs no such changes - it feels superbly damped but also exceptionally compliant. On anything bar a super smooth road, I bet this is where most of the 991's extra pace will come from over a 997. I don't mind a stiff car (my 996 RS with Manthey bits is very stiff indeed), but there is no doubt for road use the extra compliance is great.
Now looking forward to the 'Ring trip, where I will be able to use the engine to the full, and also experience the benefits of the aero. Having driven around the Ring in nearly every single GT3 road car (996, 996RS, 997 Gen 1 and 2, 4.0, plus 996 and 997 Cup cars) I have a good set of benchmarks to compare against...Should be fun!
All good - keep the updates coming , really nice to read stuff about the car rather than all the s**t about values - pleasant change First positive surprise is how good the steering is. I had a 991 C2S for a couple of years and really did not like the electric steering. The RS feels good. It's not like the old 997 GT3 helms; it does not chatter to you all the time, but as you soon as you put an input in, it starts to talk to you, and report back what's going on at the road surface. It's also super accurate.
The front end just feels wonderful. So lovely on a trailing throttle into a corner.
And perhaps the biggest step forward over the 997 4.0 that I used to own is the compliance. The old 4.0 litre was too stiff at the rear for road use. I used to drop the tyre pressures on the road to make it more driveable. But the 991 needs no such changes - it feels superbly damped but also exceptionally compliant. On anything bar a super smooth road, I bet this is where most of the 991's extra pace will come from over a 997. I don't mind a stiff car (my 996 RS with Manthey bits is very stiff indeed), but there is no doubt for road use the extra compliance is great.
Now looking forward to the 'Ring trip, where I will be able to use the engine to the full, and also experience the benefits of the aero. Having driven around the Ring in nearly every single GT3 road car (996, 996RS, 997 Gen 1 and 2, 4.0, plus 996 and 997 Cup cars) I have a good set of benchmarks to compare against...Should be fun!
terryb said:
Nice one Stefan
When are you planning a Ring trip? I'll be there for my 1st trackday in my 991 GT3 for DN13 at the end of Sept. I can't wait to get it out on track - as I'm so impressed with it on the road so far
Enjoy mate
Thanks. I'm booked in for DN13 and will probably take the 991 to that event...so see you there!When are you planning a Ring trip? I'll be there for my 1st trackday in my 991 GT3 for DN13 at the end of Sept. I can't wait to get it out on track - as I'm so impressed with it on the road so far
Enjoy mate
RSVP911 said:
stefan1 said:
Thanks. I'm booked in for DN13 and will probably take the 991 to that event...so see you there!
What's DN13 ? http://www.destination-nurburgring.com/event-dates...
stefan1 said:
Thanks. I'm booked in for DN13 and will probably take the 991 to that event...so see you there!
I'll be there too. The queue for a pax lap starts here.... 
Just kidding. Hoping one of my friends gets his 911RS by then too.
Hope you get to enjoy it there as well apart from the rest of us bugging you with questions/requests etc.
Intrigued by your view that the 4.0 was too stiff at the rear for the road....I found it very compliant, but then my reference point is 996s which are a lot less compliant.
I don't mean to make this sound negative (I know it will be a great car), however your description of compliance, do it all (road and track), does sound a bit more GTR-esque than GT3RS-esque if you understand what I mean. Granted you have not had the chance to drive it properly yet.
I guess part of the charm is having different weapons for different occasions - i.e. your 996RS will still provide the raw track feedback, whereas the 991RS can go to places/limits the previous cars could not dream of
Look forward to your views over time.
LaSource said:
Intrigued by your view that the 4.0 was too stiff at the rear for the road....I found it very compliant, but then my reference point is 996s which are a lot less compliant.
That was quite unexpected I agree. The 7.2 RS generation is obviously reasonably firm but not crashy and while not able to soak up a badly surfaced road like say the way the Mclaren can, it's not something I would have thought would be considered too stiff for the road. Interesting the differences in perception.isaldiri said:
LaSource said:
Intrigued by your view that the 4.0 was too stiff at the rear for the road....I found it very compliant, but then my reference point is 996s which are a lot less compliant.
That was quite unexpected I agree. The 7.2 RS generation is obviously reasonably firm but not crashy and while not able to soak up a badly surfaced road like say the way the Mclaren can, it's not something I would have thought would be considered too stiff for the road. Interesting the differences in perception.I suppose the other reference point was when I drove the 4.0RS back to back with the 991 GT3 with Evo (Dickie Meaden). The 991 just drove away from the 4.0RS, irrespective of who was driving - and that would be mostly down to how early you get on the power in the 991 on bumpier roads (as a result of its extra compliance).
I had never planned to sell the 4.0RS. Two things in the end changed my mind. One, it was the only way I could afford a 918, and after an early morning drive in a finished 918 at Silverstone, the draw was too hard to resist. And second, whilst I loved the 4.0's engine, gearbox and sheer levels of engagement, it actually turned out that I drove the car less than I thought I would - and perhaps in part that was because I found the 4.0RS just a tiny bit compromised on the road (for long trips particularly).
Since selling the 4.0, I've been lucky enough to drive two 3.8RSs, and it did confirm my personal preference for the earlier car - yes, it was slightly less torquey, but the 3.8 was just that bit more approachable on typical roads.
Cheers
stefan1 said:
Ah ha , cheers RSVP911 said:
stefan1 said:
Ah ha , cheers stefan1 said:
My comment was perhaps too definitive. I just found that relative to the 3.8RS, the extra stiffness at the rear of the car was noticeable, and on a bumpier roads did slightly hamper progress. It was still great fun, and as with the 996RS, there is something uniquely enjoyable about managing a very stiff, but predictable, car on a British B-road.
And second, whilst I loved the 4.0's engine, gearbox and sheer levels of engagement, it actually turned out that I drove the car less than I thought I would - and perhaps in part that was because I found the 4.0RS just a tiny bit compromised on the road (for long trips particularly).
Since selling the 4.0, I've been lucky enough to drive two 3.8RSs, and it did confirm my personal preference for the earlier car - yes, it was slightly less torquey, but the 3.8 was just that bit more approachable on typical roads.
Would have thought looking per the specs the 4.0 with dual springs at the rear (which the 3.8 doesn't have i think) would be at least as compliant so really interesting to read that cheers. Out of interest, where would you put the compliance of the cgt vs the 4.0?And second, whilst I loved the 4.0's engine, gearbox and sheer levels of engagement, it actually turned out that I drove the car less than I thought I would - and perhaps in part that was because I found the 4.0RS just a tiny bit compromised on the road (for long trips particularly).
Since selling the 4.0, I've been lucky enough to drive two 3.8RSs, and it did confirm my personal preference for the earlier car - yes, it was slightly less torquey, but the 3.8 was just that bit more approachable on typical roads.
So today I was at the Silverstone Experience Centre to drive the Lava Orange 991 RS.
The car is a pre-production version, with no air con - so it got a bit warm inside today! What I found intriguing is that the rev counter was red-lined at 9,000 rpm, not 8,800. For a moment I thought they had just put in the regular GT3 tachometer - but, no, the GT3RS logo was on the dial. Made me think - did they wind back the red-line after pre-production testing?
Anyhow, onto the driving. I spent most of the time on the original outer handling track. It was fine and dry, at least to start with. The steering is fantastic. From just 100 road miles in my car, I had already formed the view the electric steering was a big step on from previous electric set-ups. But on track, I honestly could not tell the difference between it and an old hydraulic rack. What was happening at the front tyres was crystal clear, and that gave huge confidence to use the amazing front end grip.
Agility was the second thing that I noticed. The PEC track has lots of technical sections, and the car just turns. My instructor was encouraging me to go in deeper, harder and turn faster that I normally would - and the car just stuck. It must be, in part, the huge mechanical grip from those massive tyres, but also the four wheel steering.
The engine at the upper reaches sounds as wonderful as the standard GT3. That howl about 8,000rpm is just addictive. And the pace was electric. Other cars on track were just monstered by the RS!
Traction was - as ever - a strong suit, the car taking full throttle in 2nd gear out of the tighter corners. The stability / TC system would occasionally wink at me, but any intervention was very subtle (in the dry).
We played with the settings and actually decided to stick with non-Sport PDK (Sport bangs the gears home too much for my liking - it is as if it's been engineered to not be smooth, which seems daft). And for the dampers, the normal setting just gave a bit of compliance without compromising control.
On the wet grip and low friction, the car showed its great balance. The longer wheelbase compared the 997 and 996 versions seems, to me at least, to be reflected in a more benign break-away and easily controlled drifts.
We also did the obligatory launch control. (I never both in my own cars - but fun to try.) Not sure if the non-RS GT3 also does this, but there were two ways of launching. The traditional hold down the brake with the left foot, and bury the throttle. Or, pull both paddles back, which disengages the clutch, and then floor the throttle. It revs to just under 6k, and then you release the paddles.
Overall, I came away utterly mesmerised by the car. AP and his team are at the top of their game still. It's engaging, fast, communicative - everything I hoped for and frankly there were simply no areas of weakness. That it is so refined as a road car from my short drives so far in my own car is just the icing on the cake.
Big thanks to Ed, my PEC consultant - great guy, pushed me and helped me get the best out of the car.
Cheers
The car is a pre-production version, with no air con - so it got a bit warm inside today! What I found intriguing is that the rev counter was red-lined at 9,000 rpm, not 8,800. For a moment I thought they had just put in the regular GT3 tachometer - but, no, the GT3RS logo was on the dial. Made me think - did they wind back the red-line after pre-production testing?
Anyhow, onto the driving. I spent most of the time on the original outer handling track. It was fine and dry, at least to start with. The steering is fantastic. From just 100 road miles in my car, I had already formed the view the electric steering was a big step on from previous electric set-ups. But on track, I honestly could not tell the difference between it and an old hydraulic rack. What was happening at the front tyres was crystal clear, and that gave huge confidence to use the amazing front end grip.
Agility was the second thing that I noticed. The PEC track has lots of technical sections, and the car just turns. My instructor was encouraging me to go in deeper, harder and turn faster that I normally would - and the car just stuck. It must be, in part, the huge mechanical grip from those massive tyres, but also the four wheel steering.
The engine at the upper reaches sounds as wonderful as the standard GT3. That howl about 8,000rpm is just addictive. And the pace was electric. Other cars on track were just monstered by the RS!
Traction was - as ever - a strong suit, the car taking full throttle in 2nd gear out of the tighter corners. The stability / TC system would occasionally wink at me, but any intervention was very subtle (in the dry).
We played with the settings and actually decided to stick with non-Sport PDK (Sport bangs the gears home too much for my liking - it is as if it's been engineered to not be smooth, which seems daft). And for the dampers, the normal setting just gave a bit of compliance without compromising control.
On the wet grip and low friction, the car showed its great balance. The longer wheelbase compared the 997 and 996 versions seems, to me at least, to be reflected in a more benign break-away and easily controlled drifts.
We also did the obligatory launch control. (I never both in my own cars - but fun to try.) Not sure if the non-RS GT3 also does this, but there were two ways of launching. The traditional hold down the brake with the left foot, and bury the throttle. Or, pull both paddles back, which disengages the clutch, and then floor the throttle. It revs to just under 6k, and then you release the paddles.
Overall, I came away utterly mesmerised by the car. AP and his team are at the top of their game still. It's engaging, fast, communicative - everything I hoped for and frankly there were simply no areas of weakness. That it is so refined as a road car from my short drives so far in my own car is just the icing on the cake.
Big thanks to Ed, my PEC consultant - great guy, pushed me and helped me get the best out of the car.
Cheers
stefan1 said:
So today I was at the Silverstone Experience Centre to drive the Lava Orange 991 RS.
The car is a pre-production version, with no air con - so it got a bit warm inside today! What I found intriguing is that the rev counter was red-lined at 9,000 rpm, not 8,800. For a moment I thought they had just put in the regular GT3 tachometer - but, no, the GT3RS logo was on the dial. Made me think - did they wind back the red-line after pre-production testing?
Anyhow, onto the driving. I spent most of the time on the original outer handling track. It was fine and dry, at least to start with. The steering is fantastic. From just 100 road miles in my car, I had already formed the view the electric steering was a big step on from previous electric set-ups. But on track, I honestly could not tell the difference between it and an old hydraulic rack. What was happening at the front tyres was crystal clear, and that gave huge confidence to use the amazing front end grip.
Agility was the second thing that I noticed. The PEC track has lots of technical sections, and the car just turns. My instructor was encouraging me to go in deeper, harder and turn faster that I normally would - and the car just stuck. It must be, in part, the huge mechanical grip from those massive tyres, but also the four wheel steering.
The engine at the upper reaches sounds as wonderful as the standard GT3. That howl about 8,000rpm is just addictive. And the pace was electric. Other cars on track were just monstered by the RS!
Traction was - as ever - a strong suit, the car taking full throttle in 2nd gear out of the tighter corners. The stability / TC system would occasionally wink at me, but any intervention was very subtle (in the dry).
We played with the settings and actually decided to stick with non-Sport PDK (Sport bangs the gears home too much for my liking - it is as if it's been engineered to not be smooth, which seems daft). And for the dampers, the normal setting just gave a bit of compliance without compromising control.
On the wet grip and low friction, the car showed its great balance. The longer wheelbase compared the 997 and 996 versions seems, to me at least, to be reflected in a more benign break-away and easily controlled drifts.
We also did the obligatory launch control. (I never both in my own cars - but fun to try.) Not sure if the non-RS GT3 also does this, but there were two ways of launching. The traditional hold down the brake with the left foot, and bury the throttle. Or, pull both paddles back, which disengages the clutch, and then floor the throttle. It revs to just under 6k, and then you release the paddles.
Overall, I came away utterly mesmerised by the car. AP and his team are at the top of their game still. It's engaging, fast, communicative - everything I hoped for and frankly there were simply no areas of weakness. That it is so refined as a road car from my short drives so far in my own car is just the icing on the cake.
Big thanks to Ed, my PEC consultant - great guy, pushed me and helped me get the best out of the car.
Cheers
Excellent review thank!The car is a pre-production version, with no air con - so it got a bit warm inside today! What I found intriguing is that the rev counter was red-lined at 9,000 rpm, not 8,800. For a moment I thought they had just put in the regular GT3 tachometer - but, no, the GT3RS logo was on the dial. Made me think - did they wind back the red-line after pre-production testing?
Anyhow, onto the driving. I spent most of the time on the original outer handling track. It was fine and dry, at least to start with. The steering is fantastic. From just 100 road miles in my car, I had already formed the view the electric steering was a big step on from previous electric set-ups. But on track, I honestly could not tell the difference between it and an old hydraulic rack. What was happening at the front tyres was crystal clear, and that gave huge confidence to use the amazing front end grip.
Agility was the second thing that I noticed. The PEC track has lots of technical sections, and the car just turns. My instructor was encouraging me to go in deeper, harder and turn faster that I normally would - and the car just stuck. It must be, in part, the huge mechanical grip from those massive tyres, but also the four wheel steering.
The engine at the upper reaches sounds as wonderful as the standard GT3. That howl about 8,000rpm is just addictive. And the pace was electric. Other cars on track were just monstered by the RS!
Traction was - as ever - a strong suit, the car taking full throttle in 2nd gear out of the tighter corners. The stability / TC system would occasionally wink at me, but any intervention was very subtle (in the dry).
We played with the settings and actually decided to stick with non-Sport PDK (Sport bangs the gears home too much for my liking - it is as if it's been engineered to not be smooth, which seems daft). And for the dampers, the normal setting just gave a bit of compliance without compromising control.
On the wet grip and low friction, the car showed its great balance. The longer wheelbase compared the 997 and 996 versions seems, to me at least, to be reflected in a more benign break-away and easily controlled drifts.
We also did the obligatory launch control. (I never both in my own cars - but fun to try.) Not sure if the non-RS GT3 also does this, but there were two ways of launching. The traditional hold down the brake with the left foot, and bury the throttle. Or, pull both paddles back, which disengages the clutch, and then floor the throttle. It revs to just under 6k, and then you release the paddles.
Overall, I came away utterly mesmerised by the car. AP and his team are at the top of their game still. It's engaging, fast, communicative - everything I hoped for and frankly there were simply no areas of weakness. That it is so refined as a road car from my short drives so far in my own car is just the icing on the cake.
Big thanks to Ed, my PEC consultant - great guy, pushed me and helped me get the best out of the car.
Cheers
(Yes, the launch control does work the same on the base GT3!)
stefan1 said:
We played with the settings and actually decided to stick with non-Sport PDK (Sport bangs the gears home too much for my liking - it is as if it's been engineered to not be smooth, which seems daft).
Cheers
You are hinting at something I also don't understand. Why do even serious manufacturers (and I count Porsche amongst them) insist on fake sportiness?Cheers
On track you want shifts as smooth as possible in order to avoid unsettling the car, especially when shifting in corners. Why they need to add contrived "bangs" to an otherwise smooth gearchange is beyond me.
To me this is in the mould as the crashy Audi suspensions that mistake harshness for sporty handling (whilst understeering like supertankers would)
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