911 Prices - Re-adjustment time soon
Discussion
Hello all,
I've been lookin at 911 prices and am very confused. I am in the market to spend around £35k on a 911, and I dont mind if its LHD or RHD, as long as the LHD price differntial is great enough to justify LHD.
Firstly, for £35k I can get a 996 or a late 993. But why are so many 993s priced greater than equivalent 996s? The 996 is the better car, maybe not on looks (subjective), but that surely cannot justify the price tags I've seen for 993 C4S. Also, with the new 997 out, a ripple effect should soon be on the cards and prices must surely start tumbling?
I've been lookin at 911 prices and am very confused. I am in the market to spend around £35k on a 911, and I dont mind if its LHD or RHD, as long as the LHD price differntial is great enough to justify LHD.
Firstly, for £35k I can get a 996 or a late 993. But why are so many 993s priced greater than equivalent 996s? The 996 is the better car, maybe not on looks (subjective), but that surely cannot justify the price tags I've seen for 993 C4S. Also, with the new 997 out, a ripple effect should soon be on the cards and prices must surely start tumbling?
I'm sure lots of worms will follow after me!
996 is surely a better car in terms of ability, it's faster, more comfy, more roomy and more modern. But it ain't air-cooled! The 993 is popular because it's the last air-cooled 911, and you must admit it's ass looks better than 996's. They both feel very different to drive, and many will say the build feels more solid on 993. Now. who's next....
996 is surely a better car in terms of ability, it's faster, more comfy, more roomy and more modern. But it ain't air-cooled! The 993 is popular because it's the last air-cooled 911, and you must admit it's ass looks better than 996's. They both feel very different to drive, and many will say the build feels more solid on 993. Now. who's next....
I can't think of any other marque or model where the previous generation model commands a premium over the next incarnation. It dont make any sense my friends.
Also, if LHD F355s are now almost £30k, then why should a 993 Turbo be any more ? I know, very different characteristics, but they compete for the same market segment, and F355s are considerbly more rare.
Also, if LHD F355s are now almost £30k, then why should a 993 Turbo be any more ? I know, very different characteristics, but they compete for the same market segment, and F355s are considerbly more rare.
The 993 vs 996 debate always amuses me.
Often it seems to me that the point of the comparison is missed.
The 993 appeals because it is a car that will never be produced in this way again. It is over-engineered and and highly mechanical in its nature, every component feels like it is connected to metal on metal - even the door handles !
The 996 in comparison is a more competant car. It is more modern, and more efficient at what it does. It goes, stops, steers and rides better than the 993. But the 996 is also more like a regular car. It can be driven when you are not really thinking about the act of driving, where it is as easy to use as a Focus.
The 993 is never like that. You can never drive it in a "can't be arsed " way when you are more interested in listening to the radio than actually driving.
I think comparing the two is like comparing people who like records and still keep a deck like a Linn rather than buy everything on CD. Or its like people who prefer classic design like Corbusier chairs even though they are not new.
The 993 remains a very special piece of kit. Always will be IMO.
Often it seems to me that the point of the comparison is missed.
The 993 appeals because it is a car that will never be produced in this way again. It is over-engineered and and highly mechanical in its nature, every component feels like it is connected to metal on metal - even the door handles !
The 996 in comparison is a more competant car. It is more modern, and more efficient at what it does. It goes, stops, steers and rides better than the 993. But the 996 is also more like a regular car. It can be driven when you are not really thinking about the act of driving, where it is as easy to use as a Focus.
The 993 is never like that. You can never drive it in a "can't be arsed " way when you are more interested in listening to the radio than actually driving.
I think comparing the two is like comparing people who like records and still keep a deck like a Linn rather than buy everything on CD. Or its like people who prefer classic design like Corbusier chairs even though they are not new.
The 993 remains a very special piece of kit. Always will be IMO.
If the 996 seemed 'better' to me, then I would sell my 964 now and buy one!
IIRC Porsche made a lot more 996s than 993s so that adds to the supply/demand thing as well. Plus there's the RMS issue on 996 which may put some people off.
I doubt that the introduction of the 997 will have too much of a ripple effect, at least on the £35k cars that you're looking at.
IIRC Porsche made a lot more 996s than 993s so that adds to the supply/demand thing as well. Plus there's the RMS issue on 996 which may put some people off.
I doubt that the introduction of the 997 will have too much of a ripple effect, at least on the £35k cars that you're looking at.
leosayer said:
If the 996 seemed 'better' to me, then I would sell my 964 now and buy one!
IIRC Porsche made a lot more 996s than 993s so that adds to the supply/demand thing as well. Plus there's the RMS issue on 996 which may put some people off.
I doubt that the introduction of the 997 will have too much of a ripple effect, at least on the £35k cars that you're looking at.
so are you saying the 964 is better than a 996? that would be a first.
having driven and having been in a position to have bought either i found the 993 felt very old fashioned and the 996 much more modern. the 996 is lighter,more powerful and faster and rated as the better car by a number of well respected journalists.
bennno
I think much of that is due to fears about the Dual Mass flywheel, and the early 964 turbos and their comparative sluggishness to the 930.
As I understand it the turbos are rare enough not to be a problem, and once sorted the DMF is no longer a problem.
The main reason I'd not buy a 964 is that it has power steering. That said power steering wouldn't stop me getting a 959 if I had the money. I think a secondary reason is that I prefer the appearance of the 993.
For me though the poor 996 has everything against it. Water cooled, some were unreliable, I'm not a fan of it's external appearance, it's much heavier, and to cap it all it looks like a japaneese car inside.
Strangely I actually prefer the older interior. God forbid that a huge LCD panel should appear inside a car that I have for enjoyment. Sometimes the fun is in getting lost.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 2nd February 00:34
As I understand it the turbos are rare enough not to be a problem, and once sorted the DMF is no longer a problem.
The main reason I'd not buy a 964 is that it has power steering. That said power steering wouldn't stop me getting a 959 if I had the money. I think a secondary reason is that I prefer the appearance of the 993.
For me though the poor 996 has everything against it. Water cooled, some were unreliable, I'm not a fan of it's external appearance, it's much heavier, and to cap it all it looks like a japaneese car inside.
Strangely I actually prefer the older interior. God forbid that a huge LCD panel should appear inside a car that I have for enjoyment. Sometimes the fun is in getting lost.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 2nd February 00:34
I ought to conclude too.....
I'd love to buy another newer porsche, but the reality is that I'm sufficiently happy with mine to see it to the sort of ageless perfection that I want. I'm unlikely to be able to afford the sort of Porsche that I'd want.
I know it won't last forever, but realisticlly I think I'd be thinking of something like a Noble or an Ultima as my next (possibly additional) motor.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 2nd February 00:57
I'd love to buy another newer porsche, but the reality is that I'm sufficiently happy with mine to see it to the sort of ageless perfection that I want. I'm unlikely to be able to afford the sort of Porsche that I'd want.
I know it won't last forever, but realisticlly I think I'd be thinking of something like a Noble or an Ultima as my next (possibly additional) motor.
>> Edited by dilbert on Wednesday 2nd February 00:57
iguana said:
The main reason I'd not buy a 964 is that it has power steering.
Ahh an easy fix- LHD RS's (non touring) don't have pas.....
Would it not be possible to break / remove the PAS pump? I took in a citroen van as a swapper at work and the pump is knack'd, no power steering!
I know what you mean.....
It's so much more than that though. More power, more weight, bigger tyres, heavier steering, it goes on.
The ones I'm more jealous of are those who have nice T's and S's. They can still get themselves a proper RS.
I think an early RS might be a bit spartan inside for me, maybe also a bit lacking in legs at the top end of the speed range. I honestly believe that the 80's normally aspirated 911's were pretty much as good a balance of everything, as you can get in that package.
It's so much more than that though. More power, more weight, bigger tyres, heavier steering, it goes on.
The ones I'm more jealous of are those who have nice T's and S's. They can still get themselves a proper RS.
I think an early RS might be a bit spartan inside for me, maybe also a bit lacking in legs at the top end of the speed range. I honestly believe that the 80's normally aspirated 911's were pretty much as good a balance of everything, as you can get in that package.
Shakman said:
I can't think of any other marque or model where the previous generation model commands a premium over the next incarnation. It dont make any sense my friends.
996: High Supply, Reasonable demand
993: Low Supply, High Demand
Reasons have already been discussed in this thread
Shakman said:
Also, if LHD F355s are now almost £30k, then why should a 993 Turbo be any more ? I know, very different characteristics, but they compete for the same market segment, and F355s are considerbly more rare.
F355: Very Low Supply, Even lower demand
993 Turbo: Low Supply, High demand
Reasons are that the 993TT is faster, has quicker acceleration, is more reliable, is cheaper run, handles better.
Shakman said:
I can't think of any other marque or model where the previous generation model commands a premium over the next incarnation. It dont make any sense my friends.
Also, if LHD F355s are now almost £30k, then why should a 993 Turbo be any more ? I know, very different characteristics, but they compete for the same market segment, and F355s are considerbly more rare.
Grasshopper,
You have much to learn. Go out in the world and drive the cars. The cars, they will speak to you. Only then will you truly understand the value of the 993.
pp
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