997 C2S - any comments?
Discussion
bigkeeko said:
OP
Did the 2 year approved warranty have any influence on your decision to buy from an OPC?
I`m in the situation at the minute where I`m about to pull to the trigger on a cat but a bit of me feels the 2 year Porsche warranty is a safety net as opposed to the 3 months from a specialist.
I`ve always been a safe buy kinda person so I see the extra costs incurred as insurance.
Any input ?
It did in my case: my 911 was my first Porsche and I wanted that safety net. That gave me two years to decide what the level of risk was - in the end, the warranty claims probably came to less than the cost of the warranty and I'm sufficiently unimpressed with local OPC (and have already had the fight about non-OEM battery & PSS vs N-rated PS/2) that I'd rather now put the money into the very good local indie. But that's with the benefit of that two years experience. Did the 2 year approved warranty have any influence on your decision to buy from an OPC?
I`m in the situation at the minute where I`m about to pull to the trigger on a cat but a bit of me feels the 2 year Porsche warranty is a safety net as opposed to the 3 months from a specialist.
I`ve always been a safe buy kinda person so I see the extra costs incurred as insurance.
Any input ?
bigkeeko said:
OP
Did the 2 year approved warranty have any influence on your decision to buy from an OPC?
I`m in the situation at the minute where I`m about to pull to the trigger on a car* but a bit of me feels the 2 year Porsche warranty is a safety net as opposed to the 3 months from a specialist.
I`ve always been a safe buy kinda person so I see the extra costs incurred as insurance.
Any input ?
Not really.Did the 2 year approved warranty have any influence on your decision to buy from an OPC?
I`m in the situation at the minute where I`m about to pull to the trigger on a car* but a bit of me feels the 2 year Porsche warranty is a safety net as opposed to the 3 months from a specialist.
I`ve always been a safe buy kinda person so I see the extra costs incurred as insurance.
Any input ?
Edited by bigkeeko on Wednesday 19th August 05:24
I would have been happy to buy from 911V, for example, and I wouldn't buy the warranty as a standalone, I don't think.
Obviously very different if buying a 997.1, but the DFI engine seems to be pretty reliable.
One upside of buying from an OPC is that the warranty is effectively discounted. So, if you want one (which is a marginal decision either way), buying from an OPC becomes less expensive compared to independents. It's generally considered silly to buy any other warranty for these cars.
Technomad said:
It did in my case: my 911 was my first Porsche and I wanted that safety net. That gave me two years to decide what the level of risk was - in the end, the warranty claims probably came to less than the cost of the warranty and I'm sufficiently unimpressed with local OPC (and have already had the fight about non-OEM battery & PSS vs N-rated PS/2) that I'd rather now put the money into the very good local indie. But that's with the benefit of that two years experience.
Same in my case. I would have bought from a specialist but to be honest the price for a nice manual Gen2 C2S was similar to the OPCs. I guess the cars that came up at 911Virgin, etc were lower milage for the same money but once you allow for the better warranty there wasn't much in it. I ended up with a 2010 with 11.5k miles and it's nice to have the warranty for a couple of years in case problems come up. I won't be renewing it however.ORD said:
AWD is usually more likely to cause understeer than RWD, but that rule is reversed for 911s, at least according to some people.
Try driving a RWD saloon on soft suspension and tell me it doesn't benefit from late braking to make it turn in and behave a bit more neutrally.
No, AWD and a more forward weight distribution will move the natural balance toward understeer on any vehicle. The 911 does not defy the laws of physics. Increased mass over the front axle is not the same as dynamic weight transfer under braking. Physically moving the CofG forward increases understeer, but dynamic weight transfer due to acceleration (braking in this case) reduces understeer. It's not very intuitive and many people misunderstand the difference.Try driving a RWD saloon on soft suspension and tell me it doesn't benefit from late braking to make it turn in and behave a bit more neutrally.
Technomad said:
Trail braking kills turn-in understeer very nicely - I was taught this at PEC and it feels great when you get it right. It's not full-on braking, just leave enough braking effort on to manage the weight towards 50:50 from the usual 60:40 R:F, then gently off the brakes and onto accelerator. It's a very 911 thing and part of the fun - you have to up your game to make the most of the car, whereas a Cayman is an altogether more neutral drive. It's also a great way to start an argument with an IAM Observer… ;-)
Yes it's true, I was just commenting that the 997 turns in just fine at normal road speeds without any understeer. It really doesn't NEED trail braking to avoid understeering wide unless you are really going too fast anyway. On track it's a bit different as you are always much closer to the limit and then the benefit is obvious. When you look at brake and throttle traces from F1 drivers, they trail brake very deep into corners with absolutely no margin for error. As one F1 driver used to joke, once you get back on the throttle your grandma could drive out of the corner (traction control era), all the skill is getting into the corner quickly while still making the apex. Whenever comparing lap times between team mates, it's always braking and turn-in where the gains are made and lost. scoobysnacks2 said:
Going back to the discussion about the wider 19 inch Carrera Sport wheels and their tyres (235 front 305 rear), I've got these on my gen 2 3.6 and was wondering if you can feel the difference in grip and/or handling compared to standard C2S tyres (235 front 295 rear)?
I couldn't on test drives but I expect you might if you lived with a car for a while with both. The 997 is over-tyred even with the extra width, at least not like a 987 on 19s or a 991/981 on 20s! I think the extra tyre.I would worry more about the handling feel that you like than outright grip. These cars have more grip than you can use on a public road. I went for a late night drive last night and decided to take a junction (which I could see to be clear... before anyone says kittens might have died) much too fast just to see what would go wrong - I expected the car to push wide and to take up all the extra space I could see or to wag its tail a bit. It didn't even leave the lane - it just gripped and jerked around the bend. No flashing lights on the dash, just loads of grip. Not quite as grippy as the Cayman, but it isn't anything like a powerful BMW.
Interestingly, the fairly modest torque increase over the Cayman makes it respond a bit less predictably to a heavy foot in low gears, which is quite nice. I know the cliche is that it just 'squats and goes', but it feels more ready to take a slip angle or spin the wheels. I doubt they'll actually spin up in the dry, but you can feel the struggle, whereas I found the Cayman almost immune to lead-footed idiocy.
ORD said:
These cars have more grip than you can use on a public road.
......... Not quite as grippy as the Cayman, but it isn't anything like a powerful BMW.
Appreciate your feedback OP. I`m in the process of buying and have narrowed my hunt down to two cars. This kinda suits me as I`m not really a 10/10ths driver anymore. What do you mean regarding `isn`t anything like a powerful BMW`? AS in tail happy?......... Not quite as grippy as the Cayman, but it isn't anything like a powerful BMW.
ORD said:
I expected the car to push wide and to take up all the extra space I could see or to wag its tail a bit. It didn't even leave the lane - it just gripped and jerked around the bend. No flashing lights on the dash, just loads of grip.
Exactly! I think what catches people out when first driving a 911 is the light steering feel - as they can associate this with understeer. I think the handling is pretty neutral on public roads and I have no doubt that Porsche would set it up to understeer on the actual limit, which you will not find unless you start doing track days in it. That's why I also agree that it's got more rubber than it really needs!bigkeeko said:
Appreciate your feedback OP. I`m in the process of buying and have narrowed my hunt down to two cars. This kinda suits me as I`m not really a 10/10ths driver anymore. What do you mean regarding `isn`t anything like a powerful BMW`? AS in tail happy?
Yes. It is more similar to a mid-engined car in terms of balance of grip and the attitude it takes if provoked a bit - mostly neutral. I like the E90 M3, though, so you could try that too if you want back seats.bigkeeko said:
Appreciate your feedback OP. I`m in the process of buying and have narrowed my hunt down to two cars. This kinda suits me as I`m not really a 10/10ths driver anymore. What do you mean regarding `isn`t anything like a powerful BMW`? AS in tail happy?
Yes. It is more similar to a mid-engined car in terms of balance of grip and the attitude it takes if provoked a bit - mostly neutral. I like the E90 M3, though, so you could try that too if you want back seats.ORD said:
Similar to our set-up, then. You should think about a 911 as being able to take small children and day trips. That's realistic.
+1we have used ours with 2 small kids (2 and 5 now) since the oldest was born and it works okay for short trips, but it's not practical without a family car too. To be honest I usually prefer to take the family car even on a day trip. It's just easier.
Hi ORD (Optical Rotatory Dispersion?),
how are you getting on with the 997?
Do you think it was worth the £20k (or whatever it was) to change from your Cayman? Do you think it is a better car or merely different?
I see in another thread your car is having some work done, I hope this is covered under the OPC warranty as you only bought it recently?
how are you getting on with the 997?
Do you think it was worth the £20k (or whatever it was) to change from your Cayman? Do you think it is a better car or merely different?
I see in another thread your car is having some work done, I hope this is covered under the OPC warranty as you only bought it recently?
SkinnyPete said:
Hi ORD (Optical Rotatory Dispersion?),
how are you getting on with the 997?
Do you think it was worth the £20k (or whatever it was) to change from your Cayman? Do you think it is a better car or merely different?
I see in another thread your car is having some work done, I hope this is covered under the OPC warranty as you only bought it recently?
I love it. It didn't cost anything close to £20k to change, as my Cayman cost me almost nothing in depreciation! I'll do a proper write up when I have some time to sit down and get my thoughts together.how are you getting on with the 997?
Do you think it was worth the £20k (or whatever it was) to change from your Cayman? Do you think it is a better car or merely different?
I see in another thread your car is having some work done, I hope this is covered under the OPC warranty as you only bought it recently?
Nothing wrong with the car - just getting the stone chips sorted and some upgrades.
ORD said:
I love it. It didn't cost anything close to £20k to change, as my Cayman cost me almost nothing in depreciation! I'll do a proper write up when I have some time to sit down and get my thoughts together.
Nothing wrong with the car - just getting the stone chips sorted and some upgrades.
Sounds great! Nothing wrong with the car - just getting the stone chips sorted and some upgrades.
I'd have said £25k part ex for a Cayman (no idea what spec yours was though) and £45k for an C2S but if it worked out better for you then excellent!
Stop posting so much in the dashcam thread and get your thoughts together
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