Is the bubble about to burst?
Discussion
paul0843 said:
Every time I read the 350 million a week comment without it being
in its true context it feels like someone's starting a conversation with I believe
the world is flat and here's my thoughts on Europe
If I had to pick one slogan that won the leaves the referendum that would be the one. Second migration. What was it 8 million Turks or something on our doorstep. It was never going to be Queensbury rules those days are well and truly gone. I think some of the things Boris said will cost him the Tory leadership as he sounded unhinged. Still think we are better off out long term. in its true context it feels like someone's starting a conversation with I believe
the world is flat and here's my thoughts on Europe
ras62 said:
9e 28....Farage is not the racist joking fool many in the UK seem to think he is. He is a formidable orator and not being a Lawyer in the political area he uses real world experience to his advantage. He will be a great guy to have during exit negotiations, common sense to counter the narcissist punishment agenda expected from the EU who I imagine will turn up trying to protect their own positions of power rather than do what's best for Europe. Farage will publicly out them at every opportunity.
That is unbelievable. Farage to negotiate?? We want a trade deal, the EU will want open borders. Where does Farage sit in the middle of that negotiation??The EU will make this as difficult as possible to dissuade others from following the UK. Farage would achieve nothing in the 2 year time limit if we give notice under Article 50, and we'd come out with nothing. A negotiator needs to give and take. We don't hold all 4 aces, and Farage is not for turning.
Good luck with that one.
Edited by Alpinestars on Sunday 26th June 10:55
My company is one of those that actually exports a significant amount of its product to the Eu. (32%)
My heart does not like being legislated to by unelected eurocrats but my head wants stability in the economy
Since Friday I have shelved plans to invest in new CNC machines and put a hold on recruitment until the dust settles.
I pray that the Government acts quickly with introducing British rather than European legislation thus avoiding a long period of uncertainty
I also pray the pound remains low to enable UK manufacturing to have cost advantages.
Uncertainty and a high pound will kill our manufacturing sector
My heart does not like being legislated to by unelected eurocrats but my head wants stability in the economy
Since Friday I have shelved plans to invest in new CNC machines and put a hold on recruitment until the dust settles.
I pray that the Government acts quickly with introducing British rather than European legislation thus avoiding a long period of uncertainty
I also pray the pound remains low to enable UK manufacturing to have cost advantages.
Uncertainty and a high pound will kill our manufacturing sector
Alpinestars said:
ras62 said:
9e 28....Farage is not the racist joking fool many in the UK seem to think he is. He is a formidable orator and not being a Lawyer in the political area he uses real world experience to his advantage. He will be a great guy to have during exit negotiations, common sense to counter the narcissist punishment agenda expected from the EU who I imagine will turn up trying to protect their own positions of power rather than do what's best for Europe. Farage will publicly out them at every opportunity.
That is unbelievable. Farage to negotiate?? We want a trade deal, the EU will want open borders. Where does Farage sit in the middle of that negotiation??The EU will make this as difficult as possible to dissuade others from following the UK. Farage would achieve nothing in the 2 year time limit if we give notice under Article 50, and we'd come out with nothing. A negotiator needs to give and take. We don't hold all 4 aces, and Farage is not for turning.
Good luck with that one.
Edited by Alpinestars on Sunday 26th June 10:55
In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
9e 28 said:
We do hold one game winning ace. Whatever the eurocrats do with GB will determine whether the EEC disintegrates and goes back to the dark ages or they hold on to their European ideal (and jobs) for that much longer. They have just as much to lose as we do if not more IMO. There are European economies that do very well who are not in the UK and have a much higher standard of living than the UK. Look at Switzerland and Norway for example. Our mistake was joining in the first place.
In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
Off topic. But you couldn't be more wrong.In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
France wants the negotiations swiftly so that it can impose a sufficiently unattractive deal on the UK that all anti-EU parties in France and elsewhere will realise how stupid leaving would be.
Nobody on the Leave side seems to have war games this at all. The EU has no incentive do anything but impose pain. If we try to hold out for a good deal, they will threaten the City, and we will then have to fold. We cannot survive without the City, and the EU could just about kill it if we don't play ball.
It's basic war gaming. It really shouldn't have been beyond the wit of man to see how badly the negotiations will go for the UK.
9e 28 said:
We do hold one game winning ace. Whatever the eurocrats do with GB will determine whether the EEC disintegrates and goes back to the dark ages or they hold on to their European ideal (and jobs) for that much longer. They have just as much to lose as we do if not more IMO. There are European economies that do very well who are not in the UK and have a much higher standard of living than the UK. Look at Switzerland and Norway for example. Our mistake was joining in the first place.
In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
I agree that both sides have something to win and lose, hence some balance is required in the negotiations. Farage provides little or no balance and would be totally the wrong person to negotiate on this matter. In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
ORD said:
9e 28 said:
We do hold one game winning ace. Whatever the eurocrats do with GB will determine whether the EEC disintegrates and goes back to the dark ages or they hold on to their European ideal (and jobs) for that much longer. They have just as much to lose as we do if not more IMO. There are European economies that do very well who are not in the UK and have a much higher standard of living than the UK. Look at Switzerland and Norway for example. Our mistake was joining in the first place.
In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
Off topic. But you couldn't be more wrong.In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
France wants the negotiations swiftly so that it can impose a sufficiently unattractive deal on the UK that all anti-EU parties in France and elsewhere will realise how stupid leaving would be.
Nobody on the Leave side seems to have war games this at all. The EU has no incentive do anything but impose pain. If we try to hold out for a good deal, they will threaten the City, and we will then have to fold. We cannot survive without the City, and the EU could just about kill it if we don't play ball.
It's basic war gaming. It really shouldn't have been beyond the wit of man to see how badly the negotiations will go for the UK.
Alpinestars said:
9e 28 said:
We do hold one game winning ace. Whatever the eurocrats do with GB will determine whether the EEC disintegrates and goes back to the dark ages or they hold on to their European ideal (and jobs) for that much longer. They have just as much to lose as we do if not more IMO. There are European economies that do very well who are not in the UK and have a much higher standard of living than the UK. Look at Switzerland and Norway for example. Our mistake was joining in the first place.
In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
I agree that both sides have something to win and lose, hence some balance is required in the negotiations. Farage provides little or no balance and would be totally the wrong person to negotiate on this matter. In the 1950s Greece was a military dictatorship. Spain and Italy were about to become communist as a reaction to previous fascist regimes. Germany, France were heading in same direction well actually half of Germany did go communist. EEC helped to mitigate against this and was right at the time for the founders. Politically the biggest risk I think is we may now see a return to nationalism across Europe - look at how far Trump has come on other side of the pond against all the odds.
I find it very odd these eurocrats calling for us to trigger article 50 now. Shows how arrogant, stupid and presumptive they are. Apart from constitutional reasons its sensible to get the French and German elections out the way first before triggering article 50 so the far right wing in those countries do not get in.
The leader of the Conservatives has effectively resigned. The leader of the second largest party looks like he will follow. This leaves only Nigel Farage as leader of the 3rd largest party (12.6% of the vote) during the last general election who is still in leading their party.
Those that dismiss Farage as having no influence over the coming months are wrong. He knows the EU, the system and the people better than most. He is ideally placed to be a part of the negotiations. The UK enters negotiation from a position of strength, we after all a huge market for Euro goods and services.
Leave negotiation to career politicians / lawyers and both sides could suffer. They need to be held to account and Farage has excelled in that role.
Those that dismiss Farage as having no influence over the coming months are wrong. He knows the EU, the system and the people better than most. He is ideally placed to be a part of the negotiations. The UK enters negotiation from a position of strength, we after all a huge market for Euro goods and services.
Leave negotiation to career politicians / lawyers and both sides could suffer. They need to be held to account and Farage has excelled in that role.
9e 28 said:
Thats about 10-20 years away so you're fine for short to medium term IMO. This should help you for now. Nothing changes for 2-3 years in any event.
This is where I strongly disagree , everything changes , now ! Confidence and its influence on behaviour is everything - from the consumer putting a treat in their shopping basket , to buying a house , through to business's outlook on investment . The wheels slow down and financial decline and all it brings is inevitable. I am no EU fan boy , quite the opposite , but I do believe in stability - I really hope that I'm wrong as this isn't a game. I think there are some brilliant points made on both side of this debate , but in truth no one knows where this will end up - the ramifications relating to the whole political system and the general stability both financial and of the world we live in could be massive ? Who knows , all very scary IMHO.Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 26th June 12:49
av185 said:
Otodus said:
Young voters were voting for their future
Agreed.....but this was ruined by the over 60s many of whom forget to lock the house but unfortunately remembered to vote. Democracy eh? Apparently the young folk are using Minecraft to build a bridge into France
Nice snipe at the people who got you where you are today also, well done.
RSVP911 said:
This is where I strongly disagree , everything changes , now ! Confidence and its influence on behaviour is everything - from the consumer putting a treat in their shopping basket , to buying a house , through to business's outlook on investment . The wheels slow down and financial decline and all it brings is inevitable. I am no EU fan boy , quite the opposite , but I do believe in stability - I really hope that I'm wrong as this isn't a game. I think there are some brilliant points made on both side of this debate , but in truth no one knows where this will end up - the ramifications relating to the whole political system and the general stability both financial and of the world we live in could be massive ? Who knows , all very scary IMHO.
Totally agree with you. The last recession was massively prolonged by uncertainty company's hold onto their cash rather than take the risk of investing in new projects with my company. Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 26th June 12:49
R And D tax Credits were wholly funded by European money. What now ?
We are converting all assets to liquid cash. Banks don't lend on your property portfolio value in times of recession and only take a very short term view on profitability so if you are not making profit during recession they will not lend. To you
I really hope I am wrong but I am not prepared to take the risk
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Lol, thanks! I agree its pretty small, but I think I've parked between two massive big german ass (RS4 Avant and huge Passat) there, not to mention that big family size BMW! 
I think 986 could have been a bit smaller, I really enjoy the mini-scale of 550 or 718, its pure driving car, not much!. Lotus Elise is close to that but not as comfortable as 986 on motorways.
9e 28 said:
Seems to have everything done so I'd say its well priced. The only concern would be the quality of the body restoration. I'd want to see pics as if not done properly these things rot for fun.
Absolutely. But circa 8k for "complete" engine rebuild and "complete" restoration and paint doesn't sound anywhere near enough to me. drmark said:
9e 28 said:
Seems to have everything done so I'd say its well priced. The only concern would be the quality of the body restoration. I'd want to see pics as if not done properly these things rot for fun.
Absolutely. But circa 8k for "complete" engine rebuild and "complete" restoration and paint doesn't sound anywhere near enough to me. Gandahar said:
av185 said:
Otodus said:
Young voters were voting for their future
Agreed.....but this was ruined by the over 60s many of whom forget to lock the house but unfortunately remembered to vote. Democracy eh? Fact remains though the evaporation of the car bubbles will pale into significance and seem loose change compared to what will happen to our economy now.....already downgraded by Moodys.
I will admit their appear to have been a substantial number of indolent young people who haven't been arsed to vote and whilst Glastonbury was busy they can't all have been there and use that as an excuse. But we have unquestionably been left to deal with the ramifications of the decision made by a restless Dads Army generation. What was decided on a whim will now be suffered for a protracted period.....the forseeable future and beyond.
The younger generation will be the ones sweeping up the fragments of a severely shrunken economy, and they will be the ones who need to patch together a decent working relationship with the rest of the continent for years to come.
'Independence day'....
More like Groundhog day for bigots with a smattering of racism on the side and a massive amount of ignorance.
Yep, the phrase 'price bubble' will soon be consigned to history.
Edited by av185 on Sunday 26th June 20:05
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