Is the bubble about to burst?
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I understand where your coming from, however your judging by what you feel the value is but forgetting the wider Classic car market. An only half decent 20 owner TR4 with no history previous to 1995 will cost you 25k and they built thousands ....... A rebodied 1960s Mini Cooper S (they built 72k Coopers) will set you back for a good one minimum of 30K; neither will have 'FSH' and most probs covered easily 120K miles.In comparison, a 911 993 manual with 120k miles on the clock 'with history' is a bit of a bargain in comparison, far more fun and exciting to drive and no doubt if serviced regularly will cover at least another 100K miles on its original engine before work is required.
I'm not saying they are value for money, but compared to a lot of stuff out there, they do not seem silly expensive for the higher mileage cars. Saying that the car linked above, to me is worth no more than 42-44K IMO .
Lastly, it must be remembered a 993 is a special car (well to me at least) and the most enjoyable 911 I've owned. It can't be replaced as its no longer built, so value, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm truly glad I bought mine when I did.
Edited by Wozy68 on Thursday 7th July 00:52
mollytherocker said:
This looks like a good 993 in the gorgeous Arena Red. Decent value?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
It's hardly a bargain but imho it's a fair price- obviously being a varioram C2 manual coupe it's the most desirable spec and there are not that many around......they look wonderful in polar silver or in this arena red - I'd be happier spending 40 odd grand on this car than some of the tat dealers are selling.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Cmoose has a point, there is a 180k example, just under 30k currently. (obviously not the exact spec but engine rebuilt already)
http://www.hamiltoncarsofbristol.co.uk/used-cars/p...
- I'm a big fan of 993 too but departing 50k looked normal a few weeks ago, not much with current conditions somehow.
http://www.hamiltoncarsofbristol.co.uk/used-cars/p...
- I'm a big fan of 993 too but departing 50k looked normal a few weeks ago, not much with current conditions somehow.
Wozy68 said:
I understand where your coming from, however your judging by what you feel the value is but forgetting the wider Classic car market. An only half decent 20 owner TR4 with no history previous to 1995 will cost you 25k and they built thousands ....... A rebodied 1960s Mini Cooper S (they built 72k Coopers) will set you back for a good one minimum of 30K; neither will have 'FSH' and most probs covered easily 120K miles.
In comparison, a 911 993 manual with 120k miles on the clock 'with history' is a bit of a bargain in comparison, far more fun and exciting to drive and no doubt if serviced regularly will cover at least another 100K miles on its original engine before work is required.
I'm not saying they are value for money, but compared to a lot of stuff out there, they do not seem silly expensive for the higher mileage cars. Saying that the car linked above, to me is worth no more than 40-42k IMO .
+ 1In comparison, a 911 993 manual with 120k miles on the clock 'with history' is a bit of a bargain in comparison, far more fun and exciting to drive and no doubt if serviced regularly will cover at least another 100K miles on its original engine before work is required.
I'm not saying they are value for money, but compared to a lot of stuff out there, they do not seem silly expensive for the higher mileage cars. Saying that the car linked above, to me is worth no more than 40-42k IMO .
Definitely £40k for a 993 is still very good value despite their much lower value 5 years ago.
Jaguar made 70,000 E Types and look how much they cost now.......ACA auction sold a complete rust bucket
restoration job for over 70 grand!
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
This is it. I'd considered this myself; 'upgrading' from a 15 year old 996 turbo, to a 991 C2S - the depreciation alone on the newer car is likely to be more than even a fairly stiff year of maintenance and upgrades on the old banger.no-one in their healthy mind that can argue that 993 is not a good car. We all agree on that. I do agree with the current pricing point though, I think it might adjust accordingly. There is simply almost no alternative to 993 in the current car range but again price makes you think twice, with today's conditions. 
ooid said:
no-one in their healthy mind that can argue that 993 is not a good car. We all agree on that. I do agree with the current pricing point though, I think it might adjust accordingly. There is simply almost no alternative to 993 in the current car range but again price makes you think twice, with today's conditions.
Good 993 will only carry on adjusting upwards. Its always been undervalued for what a special car it is. I'm amazed they languished at low prices for so long. Everyone I know who owned one misses it and regrets chopping in for 996. Says it all IMO.If the market does correct I'm in! TBH I'm in either way!!
cmoose I agree with you. Nice cars but come on, at 20k or thereabouts you would be able to get in and out of it in a sensible timeframe and probably not lose money. So that is about the right money. We can argue this one until the cows come home, but as someone who has sold dozens of cars in the last 10 years I can tell you that the market has really really slowed down and high mileage high volume cars such as this are particularly over-valued.
Call up a handful of dealers and ask them to buy it off you. Then add 20% for their margin, you will be a lot closer to what the real value is. Cars sat on forecourts SOR or that have huge (unrealistic) margins aren't a true barometer for value.
I remember two years ago I agreed to buy a 512TR for 110K that was up at 150k, having offered 100k initially. I didn't buy it in the end as it had just been bought for 90K. Just goes to show the sort of nonsense we have had to put up with these last few years.
It is a brave and probably foolish man that thinks values are going to do anything other than go down from where we are today in the long term. It is all a product of low interest rates blah blah......now I have a few cars myself. One of them is a 4.0 RS, probably worth 350-400k today. Could be 200k in 2y time. But I don't want to actually bet on that as that is close to what I paid, if I am wrong then I lose a car I love. I wouldn't pay that (400K) for it today. No way.
Sorry but it is just laughable that an old snotter of a 993 is up at that much. A really nice one maybe! But each to his own.
I remember two years ago I agreed to buy a 512TR for 110K that was up at 150k, having offered 100k initially. I didn't buy it in the end as it had just been bought for 90K. Just goes to show the sort of nonsense we have had to put up with these last few years.
It is a brave and probably foolish man that thinks values are going to do anything other than go down from where we are today in the long term. It is all a product of low interest rates blah blah......now I have a few cars myself. One of them is a 4.0 RS, probably worth 350-400k today. Could be 200k in 2y time. But I don't want to actually bet on that as that is close to what I paid, if I am wrong then I lose a car I love. I wouldn't pay that (400K) for it today. No way.
Sorry but it is just laughable that an old snotter of a 993 is up at that much. A really nice one maybe! But each to his own.
pistolp said:
Call up a handful of dealers and ask them to buy it off you. Then add 20% for their margin, you will be a lot closer to what the real value is. Cars sat on forecourts SOR or that have huge (unrealistic) margins aren't a true barometer for value.
I remember two years ago I agreed to buy a 512TR for 110K that was up at 150k, having offered 100k initially. I didn't buy it in the end as it had just been bought for 90K. Just goes to show the sort of nonsense we have had to put up with these last few years.
It is a brave and probably foolish man that thinks values are going to do anything other than go down from where we are today in the long term. It is all a product of low interest rates blah blah......now I have a few cars myself. One of them is a 4.0 RS, probably worth 350-400k today. Could be 200k in 2y time. But I don't want to actually bet on that as that is close to what I paid, if I am wrong then I lose a car I love. I wouldn't pay that (400K) for it today. No way.
Sorry but it is just laughable that an old snotter of a 993 is up at that much. A really nice one maybe! But each to his own.
Good post. Still feel its too general to state 'all values will plummet etc'. Other investment opportunities are thin on the ground, and still a tax free gain, crucially, if you get it right. The cream will always sell and rarely hits market. I remember two years ago I agreed to buy a 512TR for 110K that was up at 150k, having offered 100k initially. I didn't buy it in the end as it had just been bought for 90K. Just goes to show the sort of nonsense we have had to put up with these last few years.
It is a brave and probably foolish man that thinks values are going to do anything other than go down from where we are today in the long term. It is all a product of low interest rates blah blah......now I have a few cars myself. One of them is a 4.0 RS, probably worth 350-400k today. Could be 200k in 2y time. But I don't want to actually bet on that as that is close to what I paid, if I am wrong then I lose a car I love. I wouldn't pay that (400K) for it today. No way.
Sorry but it is just laughable that an old snotter of a 993 is up at that much. A really nice one maybe! But each to his own.
However i do agree, the likes of Hexagon are laughable as regards their optimistic pricing.
So the bubble is bursting, but only on those models that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Market watch, for my cars.
There have never been so many 964 turbo 3.6's for sale! Mainly LHD, and most have been on the market for a while!
TVR Sagaris, only 2,for sale in the classifieds, did the others sell, or were they withdrawn? I believe they are still strong, as I got a good bid from a dealer on mine.
Good Mk1 Escorts are still on the rise.
There have never been so many 964 turbo 3.6's for sale! Mainly LHD, and most have been on the market for a while!
TVR Sagaris, only 2,for sale in the classifieds, did the others sell, or were they withdrawn? I believe they are still strong, as I got a good bid from a dealer on mine.
Good Mk1 Escorts are still on the rise.
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