Is the bubble about to burst?
Discussion
Robbo66 said:
As was your 'speechless' statement. We all realise that those lucky enough to be 'honoured' with allocation for a car such as this, are saddled to some degree with a 'duty' to hype that car up.
This is an open forum, that is monitored very carefully by head office and the OPC's, and it would remain foolish to risk further allocation of any future halo models, by daring to criticise the model in any way.
This has become glaringly obvious reading some of the handwringing endorsements of their OPC's and near biblical fawning over their latest toy.
The same could equally be said about those criticising the car as a 'parts bin special' etc, where they have been overlooked, and have no chance of securing a car now, or in the future.
Both ends of the spectrum are on show here, many with their own agenda's. A true, independent view, therefore remains very rare on here.
Now I am actually speechless. The implication being that I daren't criticise the R for fear of offending my dealer and Porsche themselves. Utter codswallop my dear friend. You obviously really let your thoughts run away with themselves. This is an open forum, that is monitored very carefully by head office and the OPC's, and it would remain foolish to risk further allocation of any future halo models, by daring to criticise the model in any way.
This has become glaringly obvious reading some of the handwringing endorsements of their OPC's and near biblical fawning over their latest toy.
The same could equally be said about those criticising the car as a 'parts bin special' etc, where they have been overlooked, and have no chance of securing a car now, or in the future.
Both ends of the spectrum are on show here, many with their own agenda's. A true, independent view, therefore remains very rare on here.
Speechless was a turn of phrase in the previous post, not an actual state of facial paralysis. It wasn't literal. But I stand by the comment that if a guy can't say there's much difference between a GTS and an R then I'm hitting a brick wall. I forgot how careful you have to be on here for fear of lighting the wick on some idiots tampon.
As for having an agenda, you're really reading into this too much. I don't stand to gain anything by eulogising about cars on here to a bunch of people that are largely priced out anyway. We already discussed this before remember? I am really rich with inherited money and it is all immaterial to me - just spend it who cares. Only the poor need think about such trivial matters.
Seriously who is going to put their hand up at 400k for an R on here anyway? This ain't the place to be plugging high level cars. I won't sell mine anyway. So it's pointless. It just happens to be a great car. But I think I get the message now. It's just impossible to get into a sensible debate!
Edited by pistolp on Wednesday 20th July 16:47
GT4P said:
pistolp said:
I am really rich with inherited money and it is all immaterial to me - just spend it who cares. Only the poor need think about such trivial matters.
I find this statement a little patronising!!!!Edited by pistolp on Wednesday 20th July 16:47
majordad said:
What exactly is the Black Series Merc, they always look the part, what are they like to own?
Nice photos, thanks.
Thank you. Nice photos, thanks.
The best analogy I can come up with, is that if an AMG is a GT3 equivalent, the Black series is the RS version.
The CS spec (my words), adds the canards, rear spoiler, oil cooling, bucket seats and delete rear seats.
The black has wider arches, front and rear (like an RS). Only 12 or so UK RHD black cars I believe, of which I'm guessing a handful or less are CS spec. Most people didn't delete the rear seats and had "comfort" front seats, amd some deleted the rear spoiler and canards.
What's it like to drive? A lot of fun! Noisy, brutish, feels special, especially the suspension. Not as engaging as it's main rival, an M3 GTS.
Plagiarised from CAR magazine, if you're interested.
So how does a Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe Black Series differ from a normal C63 AMG Coupe?
Let’s start with the engine, AMG’s famed 6.2-litre V8. In regular C63 guise it boasts 451bhp and 443bhp, but in Black Series form it gains the SLS supercar’s forged pistons, conrods and lightweight crankshaft, and a new ECU, to push its outputs up to 510bhp and 457lb ft. That’s actually barely any more power (and actually less torque) than its predecessor, the 500bhp and 465lb ft CLK63 Black, but it’s much gruntier than the 444bhp and 325lb ft BMW M3 GTS.
It means three-tenths are trimmed from the 0-62mph time, but no more because the C63 Black only weighs 20kg less than the normal C63 Coupe – there are no ceramic brakes or carbon panels to save weight. But there is that coilover suspension, and massively widened front and rear tracks (by40mm and 79mm respectively) which nestle behind broader front and rear wheelarches (28mm and 42mm).
Which means the Black no longer looks like a C-class saloon but a hardcore coupe with big, butch looks: intakes and vents pepper the nose, the creased aluminium bonnet and the enlarged arches, and if you spec the AMG Aerodynamics Package (circa £7k and fitted to our car) you get a set of carbon ‘flics’ on the front bumper, a carbon front splitter and an adjustable carbon rear wing.
And inside the C63 Black?
At first it feels like a regular C63 Coupe as the gearbox defaults to Controlled Efficiency mode, pulling away in second and shifting seamlessly up to seventh. And besides the bucket seats and Alcantara-trimmed steering wheel, it could be a regular C63 Black: the contrasting stitching is subtle, as is the carbon trim and small Black Series badge; and if you want to use it every day you can option the C63 Coupe’s standard front and rear seats instead of the standard buckets and deleted rear bench.
Steve Rance said:
Motorsport is a thread that runs through most truly classic cars. The two are very often bound together. 250GT0, 275, 288GTO, F40, Mac F1, D Type, Etype lightweight, Lotus Cortina etc... not sure if there is another car that has been connected with motorsport quite so long as the 911 but motorsport definately has a major role in the credibility of the model. Some models are even more closely linked to motorsport - original 2.7RS, 911R, 964/993CS 993GT2, 996/997GT3.
Cant see the association between classic cars and motorsport changing much
Its an interesting point especially if one then looks at the less famous marques or the very mainstream ones. I may be wrong but it seems the reason why so many Mustang race cars are about these days is for the simple reason that its one of the few cars from that period that is still affordable enough to go racing with. Then on the other hand there are marques like Chevron. Completely unknown to anyone outside motorsport but mega money because of their race winning pedigree. Then there are oddities like old Ginetta GTs, race winning potential but still cheap for that sort of thing. Moving to more modern stuff I know a race preparer that came close to bagging what was believed to be a genuine Oreca Vipers for under 25 grand a few years back, proper crazy bargain stuff. I guess all I am saying is that it has been one hell of a mixed up world and market out there over the years.Cant see the association between classic cars and motorsport changing much
NJH said:
GT4P said:
pistolp said:
I am really rich with inherited money and it is all immaterial to me - just spend it who cares. Only the poor need think about such trivial matters.
I find this statement a little patronising!!!!Edited by pistolp on Wednesday 20th July 16:47
Money does not make you a better person?
Thanks for the info. I used own a 997.2 RS in Porsche Green, now have a Lava RS. My only time to see a Black in the flesh was on the Waterfront at Capetown in 2011. Looked fast, parked, now I understand why. I've said before, cars like the above set their own price, bubbles are not relevant, if you want you pay, with or without family money. Spent yesterday evening washing my Bubble RS. Therapy !
majordad said:
Thanks for the info. I used own a 997.2 RS in Porsche Green, now have a Lava RS. My only time to see a Black in the flesh was on the Waterfront at Capetown in 2011. Looked fast, parked, now I understand why. I've said before, cars like the above set their own price, bubbles are not relevant, if you want you pay, with or without family money. Spent yesterday evening washing my Bubble RS. Therapy !
Rare in green. Get a picture up!I think 4 black models have been made. SL, CLK, SLS and C63.
SEE YA said:
NJH said:
GT4P said:
pistolp said:
I am really rich with inherited money and it is all immaterial to me - just spend it who cares. Only the poor need think about such trivial matters.
I find this statement a little patronising!!!!Edited by pistolp on Wednesday 20th July 16:47
Money does not make you a better person?
NJH said:
Steve Rance said:
Motorsport is a thread that runs through most truly classic cars. The two are very often bound together. 250GT0, 275, 288GTO, F40, Mac F1, D Type, Etype lightweight, Lotus Cortina etc... not sure if there is another car that has been connected with motorsport quite so long as the 911 but motorsport definately has a major role in the credibility of the model. Some models are even more closely linked to motorsport - original 2.7RS, 911R, 964/993CS 993GT2, 996/997GT3.
Cant see the association between classic cars and motorsport changing much
Its an interesting point especially if one then looks at the less famous marques or the very mainstream ones. I may be wrong but it seems the reason why so many Mustang race cars are about these days is for the simple reason that its one of the few cars from that period that is still affordable enough to go racing with. Then on the other hand there are marques like Chevron. Completely unknown to anyone outside motorsport but mega money because of their race winning pedigree. Then there are oddities like old Ginetta GTs, race winning potential but still cheap for that sort of thing. Moving to more modern stuff I know a race preparer that came close to bagging what was believed to be a genuine Oreca Vipers for under 25 grand a few years back, proper crazy bargain stuff. I guess all I am saying is that it has been one hell of a mixed up world and market out there over the years.Cant see the association between classic cars and motorsport changing much
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