Is the bubble about to burst?

Is the bubble about to burst?

Author
Discussion

roygarth

2,673 posts

248 months

Monday 5th September 2016
quotequote all
Mousem40 said:
roygarth said:
Hexanchus said:
Legacywr said:
By my (poor) calculations, Silverstone's make over 30k on that 4.0 RS alone!!
Yep, the buyer pays 12.5% and the seller 5% so auction house get over 36k on 208k hammer price. A UK buyer also pays VAT on the premium.

SOR is cheap in comparison!
Except as vendor you only pay 5% or £10k, which is the commission I'd expect to pay SOR on a car of this value.
Sure, but the buyer will bid less for your car by the amount of the fee he has to pay. In other words, the seller ends up paying/losing/knocking off the entire buyer/seller/other/ fees off the hammer price.
Yes, fair point. Glad to be corrected!

Legacywr

12,089 posts

188 months

Monday 5th September 2016
quotequote all
Silverstone seems to be a good place to sell a car IMO! They seem to make strong money on the cars that sell.

Auctions are responsible for showing where the markets at.

2 unsold Mk1 Escorts though, they're one of my passions smile

mollytherocker

14,366 posts

209 months

Monday 5th September 2016
quotequote all
Legacywr said:
Hexanchus said:
Legacywr said:
By my (poor) calculations, Silverstone's make over 30k on that 4.0 RS alone!!
Yep, the buyer pays 12.5% and the seller 5% so auction house get over 36k on 208k hammer price. A UK buyer also pays VAT on the premium.

SOR is cheap in comparison!
Plus, the cheeky buggers make the seller pay a £250 registration fee!
Once again, I am reminded what a low return industry I chose. Idiot!

These high end auctions seem to be as close as money for nothing as I can think of!

drmark

4,824 posts

186 months

Monday 5th September 2016
quotequote all
Digga said:
She was a very accomplished driver. There on merit.
She most certainly was. I worked on the World Rally Championship during my youth and have sat in with many top drivers from that era during test and press days, and Mouton was one of the most impressive. Best for me though was Francois Delecour. Scariest - by some margin - was Ari Vatanen (mind you I never blagged a ride with Colin McRae).
Happy days smile

mudy

874 posts

172 months

Monday 5th September 2016
quotequote all
£171,000 for that white 930 seems very good - yes i know it's technically one owner and appears totally original but 30k miles isn't seen as collector low

RSVP911

8,192 posts

133 months

Monday 5th September 2016
quotequote all
mollytherocker said:
Once again, I am reminded what a low return industry I chose. Idiot!

These high end auctions seem to be as close as money for nothing as I can think of!
I couldn't agree more - it's scandalous what they make , an absolute con. Crazy .

SEE YA

3,522 posts

245 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
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Prices like the above,make middle market values rise as well.
Most of us deal in that arena.

sparta6

3,694 posts

100 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
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there will be no recession - the Brexit doom-mongers are bound to be disappointed smile

fredt

847 posts

147 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
RSVP911 said:
I couldn't agree more - it's scandalous what they make , an absolute con. Crazy .
Is it?
You shuold set up your own auctions then, slash the fees and start counting the money!

I agree the fees are strong, but the sellers seem to think Silverstone bring value for the money.

ORD

18,107 posts

127 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
there will be no recession - the Brexit doom-mongers are bound to be disappointed smile
I hope not, because if there is one, it will make 2008 look extremely mild. It will be crippling.

braddo

10,441 posts

188 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
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ORD, do you still have a green 911? I saw one parked around Aldwych on the weekend.

RSVP911

8,192 posts

133 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
fredt said:
Is it?
You shuold set up your own auctions then, slash the fees and start counting the money!

I agree the fees are strong, but the sellers seem to think Silverstone bring value for the money.
Thanks for the tip , there's a thought ........

Legacywr

12,089 posts

188 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
RSVP911 said:
fredt said:
Is it?
You shuold set up your own auctions then, slash the fees and start counting the money!

I agree the fees are strong, but the sellers seem to think Silverstone bring value for the money.
Thanks for the tip , there's a thought ........
We could, I may have our first entery too smile

fredt

847 posts

147 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes obviously. And that's my point. They have done something right and charge what the market can bear. People like and use it, it's nothing like a con.

smile

NJH

3,021 posts

209 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
fredt said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes obviously. And that's my point. They have done something right and charge what the market can bear. People like and use it, it's nothing like a con.

smile
I blame all of this sort of thing on Jean-Claude Biver, everyone in the luxury goods market has spent the past decade trying to copy his lead.

FalconWood

1,359 posts

197 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
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diametric123 said:
For me the 930 Turbo at £170k was the standout - you can buy better cars for significantly less from a main dealer (see Dick Lovett Swindon) - what on earth possessed someone to drop this kind of money on auction stock?...
I was there and watched this one being bid. The guy really really wanted it. He also bought the Mercedes 190 Evolution!

The most ridiculous ask price was the Aventador SV LHD that had an offer of £440 pre bidders costs and was turned down. It is on the Silverstone website now for £577k if you want it, which assuming the bidders costs are included, means the seller wants £500k for a LHD SV - thats about RHD prices i think!!

Cheib

23,215 posts

175 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Auction houses compete for consignments, for big tickets they won't get all the commission. A couple of the things they'll do.

1. The seller either can get a reduced fee or if it's a particularly desirable car they pay no fee at all and actually get some of the buyers commission. i.e. Car sells for £1mil with in theory buyer and seller both paying 10%. What actually happens is that the seller pockets £1,050,000 and the auction house gets £50k.

2. Auction houses also underwrite consignments. They use to do it themselves but in 2008 it nearly put them out of business. Now they'll approach a third party to underwrite the item ( normally a collector who is keen not to see an item sell cheaply). So in the above example where a car sells for £1mil the underwriter say underwrote the car at £900k and in return will get a decent chunk of the commission that the auction house receives.


The above is not going to happen for a £100k car but it will definitely happen for the headline grabbing cars or collections like the Porsche one at the RM sale.

They also sometimes get buyers dropping out on them and generally will find someone else to buy it and wear the loss (if need be).

I have t say when my mate who told me about things like the underwriting when cars are shown as "no reserve" I was quite surprised. If a banker did that it would be career over!

sparta6

3,694 posts

100 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Pure & unadulterated capitalism in motion

ORD

18,107 posts

127 months

Tuesday 6th September 2016
quotequote all
braddo said:
ORD, do you still have a green 911? I saw one parked around Aldwych on the weekend.
Yep. I bloody love it. It wasn't in Aldwych, though, unless someone 'borrowed' it.

Robbo66

3,833 posts

233 months

Wednesday 7th September 2016
quotequote all
Cheib said:
Auction houses compete for consignments, for big tickets they won't get all the commission. A couple of the things they'll do.

1. The seller either can get a reduced fee or if it's a particularly desirable car they pay no fee at all and actually get some of the buyers commission. i.e. Car sells for £1mil with in theory buyer and seller both paying 10%. What actually happens is that the seller pockets £1,050,000 and the auction house gets £50k.

2. Auction houses also underwrite consignments. They use to do it themselves but in 2008 it nearly put them out of business. Now they'll approach a third party to underwrite the item ( normally a collector who is keen not to see an item sell cheaply). So in the above example where a car sells for £1mil the underwriter say underwrote the car at £900k and in return will get a decent chunk of the commission that the auction house receives.


The above is not going to happen for a £100k car but it will definitely happen for the headline grabbing cars or collections like the Porsche one at the RM sale.

They also sometimes get buyers dropping out on them and generally will find someone else to buy it and wear the loss (if need be).

I have t say when my mate who told me about things like the underwriting when cars are shown as "no reserve" I was quite surprised. If a banker did that it would be career over!
Again, shows why I and many others I know, would never buy from Auction houses. The cream will go to the specialists for that marque, Fiskins/ Talacrest for Ferrari, Maxted for PORSCHE for example.

The odd one will turn up at the likes of Hexagon, who prey on the fickle, but also charge ridiculous commission rates. A fool and his money etc...