Is the bubble about to burst?

[TB993tt]

hunter 66 said:

TB993tt agree .... the V10 of the CGT alone is worth the money....

I was musing on the parts needed for a full 993GT2 build and dug this 40 page part manual out (Courtesy of John Chester), did you have this (thought you may have with your GT2 experience), if not would you like me to scan in and send you a copy ?

[IMI A]

EGTE said:

IMI A said:

Digga said:

IMI A said:

No breaks or gaps and sitting around in garage.

Agreed. I am told, by the guys who maintain my car, that even a newer 996 is going to give similar problems if mothballed for 6 months in every year.

Yep same basic engine design at the crank as you're no doubt aware. They need using 996/7 turbos even more so IMO with sticky wastgates's and turbo actuators/rods, boost leaks, faulty mafs, coil packs etc etc. Again another engine good for 400,000 plus miles no probs at all if used and maintained properly

There's a 996 C2 with over 300,000 miles that's needed nothing more than a clutch on the 911uk.com forum as well.

Think its a C4. Early one with dual row IMS bearing I think. Poppopbangbangs?

[Davey S2]

Having your own Singer built and imported for £500K suddenly seems like a bit of a bargain!

[hunter 66]

TB993 tt ...... rebuilding one at moment ( had full respray ) so have ..
As for JC ...... most time on track with him is spent sideways in the old black GT2..

[IMI A]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You haven't spent enough time with one air cooled for it to get under your skin yet IMO. Boxster all too easy up to ten tenths even for an average driver like moi ; )

Fabulous the 986 series though

[Cheburator mk2]

IMI A said:

Yep same basic engine design at the crank as you're no doubt aware. They need using 996/7 turbos even more so IMO with sticky wastgates's and turbo actuators/rods, boost leaks, faulty mafs, coil packs etc etc. Again another engine good for 400,000 plus miles no probs at all if used and maintained properly

I have a chuckle at the 964 part number on the case of my 996.1 CS every time I see it. Speaking of high milers - the chief mechanic of PZ Koln used to run a magnificent 1986 928 S2 5-spd with about 700,000km on the clocks. Driven daily from day one, only had the valve seals changed half-way through. 3 clutches and 2 suspension changes. Try that in a E63 M6...

[SRT Hellcat]

I would not mind a copy Toby
I still remember the first time I ever drove a 911. A 1989 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. I was sold on it within 15 minutes of driving. The most tactile and visceral driving experience that I had ever had up and till that time. Once bit by the bug you just cannot put them down.
The other month a good friend and neighbour asked me to go look at a Boxter S with him. I knew the dealer so we just took it for a drive. My mate says your the expert so you drive it first. I replied. No expert, this will be the first Boxter I have ever driven and probably the last.

[majordad]

Boxster is a great Porsche and a great car. The fact they make lots of them only means mere mortals can afford one used.

[david hockney]

IMI A said:

I know a 964 C2 and 3.2C that have not leaked any oil in 27 years. They have been properly serviced and used lightly every year though. No breaks or gaps and sitting around in garage. These cars can do big 400,000 + mileages without any oil leaks if maintained and used correctly. In fact i think rust apart the 3.2 Carrera is about the most reliable air-cooled out there. Love the 993 but sadly never had one. Heard it understeers a bit more than the others due to revised rear suspension and not as raw to drive.

The 993 is not as raw to drive- but driven hard on a good country road they are still a wonderful drive- fast with
superb grip in the corners.
Since buying my 993 I've had 4 other cars come and go and yet the 993 hasn't even come close to being sold.

I understand the SC and 964 are more reliable and less prone to oil leaks if used regularly-
but that doesn't really excuse the issues......I sometimes rest my 993 up for long periods but it still starts on
the button and doesn't leak oil everywhere. You can't have it all though- the 964 and SC look better imho.

[IMI A]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've covered 160,000 miles in 986 S. 300,000 miles in 944. Not far of 100,000 miles in 997. Nowhere near as many miles in air-cooled as tended to use them on high days for special drives. I still look at a 986 whenever I go past one and they look better to me every day that goes by especially with ambers but I will always take a second look at an air-cooled.

Hustling a 2.7RS , 2.7S, 3.0 SC, 3.2 Carrera, 964 C2 down a narrow country road is a hell of an experience for me. Maybe some people get them and others don't?

[Cheib]

squirejo said:

http://www.classicandsportsfinance.com/jd-classics... Is I think more interesting as a signal for where next.

Interesting isn't it....I think that's as much that they think they can take the JD Classics name to other markets and try and become a pre-eminent global brand. I am sure there are some amazing Jaguat specialists in the US, but who better to look after your Jagwar than the company that takes Jagwar's own heritage fleet to the Mille Miglia every year etc

Similar to Sotheby's buying RM a year or so ago. RM are the only auction house (I think) who have a significant presence on both sides of the pond. Sotheby's also have a big Private Equity type shareholder now.

[Yellow491]

TB993tt said:

hunter 66 said:

It is a special car ... one owner etc ... the more you know about them they are a lot more than a souped up 993 ......we have a few and when you look closely as with all special Porsches there are many small things that make the sum up .......

The 993GT2 is no Carrera GT it is a souped up 993, any 993 can be made to be identical spec to a 993GT2, just takes £££££. Biggest problem with the basic 993GT2 is the chassis can't handle much more than 750NM on the road without becoming dangerous.

Why would you want more than 750nm on the road in a car not designed for it!,

The cgt is no angel either,but better with decent tyres now available.

I think who ever purchased the gt2,the car that he wanted ! was a very educated purchase from a clearly very bright individual,who knows what he is doing,and good of him.

[EGTE]

IMI A said:

EGTE said:

IMI A said:

Digga said:

IMI A said:

No breaks or gaps and sitting around in garage.

Agreed. I am told, by the guys who maintain my car, that even a newer 996 is going to give similar problems if mothballed for 6 months in every year.

Yep same basic engine design at the crank as you're no doubt aware. They need using 996/7 turbos even more so IMO with sticky wastgates's and turbo actuators/rods, boost leaks, faulty mafs, coil packs etc etc. Again another engine good for 400,000 plus miles no probs at all if used and maintained properly

There's a 996 C2 with over 300,000 miles that's needed nothing more than a clutch on the 911uk.com forum as well.

Think its a C4. Early one with dual row IMS bearing I think. Poppopbangbangs?

Yes his. Didn't know it was a C4, thanks!

[NJH]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The problem is your trying to be objective and the price of these cars has little to do with any link between their monetary value and objective appraisal of the car.

[TB993tt]

Yellow491 said:

Why would you want more than 750nm on the road in a car not designed for it!,

So you don't like engine tuning, you're possibly in a minority amongst car guys there.

Specifically the 993 GT2 was designed for an increase in engine output and it works well on smooth tracks but on cambered lumpy roads it is quite dangerous (a bit more dangerous that the CGT because of the turbo torque delivery IMO)
Add the 4WD system of the 993 turbo and it can handle 850NM quite easily on the road and a lot of fun - if you are into lively cars that is.

[SRT Hellcat]

I applaud any man that knows his limitations.
So near and yet so far

[ras62]

cmoose...how much subjective enjoyment they deliver... I've read that a few times and its still confusing me? but not as much as the msg that a Boxter with all its mass market filtered feedback offers the same thrill of an aircooled 911.
Hand on heart I have never shut the door on a Boxter and thought wow that is what quality sounds and feels like. Likewise I've never started a Boxter and listened to the rattles of a lightweight flywheel and rumble of the motor because, well there isn't much to hear. We haven't turned a wheel yet btw.....

[Yellow491]

TB993tt said:

Yellow491 said:

Why would you want more than 750nm on the road in a car not designed for it!,

So you don't like engine tuning, you're possibly in a minority amongst car guys there. sorry did i say that!

Specifically the 993 GT2 was designed for an increase in engine output and it works well on smooth tracks but on cambered lumpy roads it is quite dangerous (a bit more dangerous that the CGT because of the turbo torque delivery IMO)
Add the 4WD system of the 993 turbo and it can handle 850NM quite easily on the road and a lot of fun - if you are into lively cars that is.

MmmmThe gt2 strasse version had a vary small increase in power over the turbo 4,once you start messing with the balance of delivery and outputs not designed into the car intended,it will need chassis work.As per the factory race versions.The gt2 strasse version is far from dangerous,a great road car.
The cgt is far more edgey on its factory set up than a factory gt2 at its limits.

I know some people cant get there heads around the cost of a gt2 now over a cgt,which is probably 10 times the car of a gt2,but its down to numbers of build which clearly floats the boats of some collectors.
Enjoy your lively cars as i do!

[drmark]

ras62 said:

cmoose...how much subjective enjoyment they deliver... I've read that a few times and its still confusing me? but not as much as the msg that a Boxter with all its mass market filtered feedback offers the same thrill of an aircooled 911.
Hand on heart I have never shut the door on a Boxter and thought wow that is what quality sounds and feels like. Likewise I've never started a Boxter and listened to the rattles of a lightweight flywheel and rumble of the motor because, well there isn't much to hear. We haven't turned a wheel yet btw.....

Difficult to compare imo - subjectively or objectively - as apples and pears.

The purest 911 I have owned (a 1970 s) shared little more than a badge with the Boxster /Cayman. Key subjective characteristics like middle C ring on shutting the door, smell, noise, shape, view etc are all common to the air cooled family. The only thing ithe 911 really lost with more modern variants was the light deft helm as it got heavier / assisted steering.

996 on have much more in common with the smaller Porsches - for obvious reasons - and much easier to compare.

The Boxster /Cayman variants are among the best drives I have experienced but, like many modern sports cars that handle superbly, they lack the sense of occasion you get with an older 911. If it was just about handling, control weight etc we would all drive MX-5s. I miss the soul of the older 911s and wish I had kept all mine. And not just because they would be worth a fortune now.

Do you want to sell it back to me Joe?

[Robbo66]

drmark said:

Difficult to compare imo - subjectively or objectively - as apples and pears.

The purest 911 I have owned (a 1970 s) shared little more than a badge with the Boxster /Cayman. Key subjective characteristics like middle C ring on shutting the door, smell, noise, shape, view etc are all common to the air cooled family. The only thing ithe 911 really lost with more modern variants was the light deft helm as it got heavier / assisted steering.

996 on have much more in common with the smaller Porsches - for obvious reasons - and much easier to compare.

The Boxster /Cayman variants are among the best drives I have experienced but, like many modern sports cars that handle superbly, they lack the sense of occasion you get with an older 911. If it was just about handling, control weight etc we would all drive MX-5s. I miss the soul of the older 911s and wish I had kept all mine. And not just because they would be worth a fortune now.

Do you want to sell it back to me Joe?

Best post yet on this overly analysed subject. You can't compare a Boxster with an old 911, utterly ridiculous.