Is the bubble about to burst?
Discussion
drmark said:
Sat opposite hedgie at wedding yesterday who was looking smug after shorting Deutsche Bank. He was adamant that classic car prices (most but not all) are due a major correction, and if he could find a reliable method of taking short positions in the market he would be filling his boots now.
Poor you , I hate it when that happens - I guess it could have been worse ....... you could have been sitting next to him ! I just tend to "drink through it" in those situations and move away as soon as I can - I guess I shouldn't really be allowed to mix with other human beings 
RSVP911 said:
Poor you , I hate it when that happens - I guess it could have been worse ....... you could have been sitting next to him . I just tend to "drink through it" in those situations and move away as soon as I can - I guess I shouldn't really be allowed to mix with other human beings
Any ideas what this will make? https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1991-porsche-9...
The Porsche 964 is the internal name for Porsche 911s manufactured and sold between 1989 and 1994. Designed by Benjamin Dimson in 1986, it featured significant styling revisions over previous 911 models, most prominently the more integrated bumpers.
A new naturally aspirated engine called the M64 was used for 964 models, with a flat-6 displacement of 3.6-litres. Porsche substantially revised the suspension, replacing the rear torsion bars with coil springs and shock absorbers. Power steering and ABS brakes were added to the 911 for the first time; both were standard. The exterior bumpers and fog lamps became flush into the car, allowing for better aerodynamics. Furthermore, a new electric rear spoiler rose up at speeds above 50 mph and lowered down flush with the rear engine lid at lower speeds, or at rest.
In 1992, Porsche produced a lightweight, rear-wheel-drive only version of the 964 called the Carrera RS. The RS was fitted with a revised version of the standard engine titled M64/03 internally which had an increased power output of 256hp and a lightweight flywheel coupled to the G50/10 gearbox with closer ratios, asymmetrical Limited Slip Differential and steel synchromesh.
A stripped-out interior devoid of luxuries such as electric windows, rear seats, air conditioning, and cruise control were part of the RS package, as were the bucket front seats. The bonnet was made of aluminium, the chassis was seam welded, and sound deadening was deleted. Furthermore, the glass was thinner in the doors and rear window. The Carrera RS is approximately 155 kg lighter than the standard model.
The NGTs were further stripped-out with all carpets and soundproofing removed. Front carpets were replaced with plywood footboards, a full welded cage was fitted, and seats were Nomex-covered rather than leather. Additionally, the NGTs featured a long-range fuel tank, plumbed in fire extinguisher, external cut-off, fire extinguisher release, and a relocated DME. Harder and more track focused, these were the great racers and are still running in events like the Nurburgring 24Hrs. A total of just 290 were made.
First registered on 12th December 1991, and supplied new by Porsche in Stuttgart, this rare NGT example is a European specification car and is chassis number 76 out of 290.
The car was to remain in Germany until 2010 having had just three owners, before being exported to its new owner in Japan via Thomas Schmitz a renowned Porsche RS specialist in Germany. At this time he noted in the corresponding documentation that a front-end repair had been carried out on the car.
Showing just 25,000 miles, it's finished in the striking colour of Maritime Blue, which looks good on a 964, and the paintwork is generally excellent with just a few minor blemishes. Inside the car, the cabin is in excellent condition retaining much of the character of a standard 964 but with a more purposeful sporting feel orientated around the driver, helped largely by the addition of the Nomex Recaro bucket seats, a welded roll cage, Alcantara Momo steering wheel, and 4-point harnesses.
Similarly, the engine bay is very clean and tidy commensurate with age and mileage.
Present in the history file are the handbook and the original dealer-supplied maintenance book which is complete with the options code sticker and no less than eight German service stamps. Numerous German documents plus invoices from Porsche and Porsche specialists further verify the service history. The car has been imported into the UK with all duties and taxes paid.
This is a superb example indeed and would make a fine addition to any garage as the 964 is often regarded as the all encompassing true driver's 911. There can be no doubt then that this Carrera RS in NGT specification is one of the most driver-focused and rewarding Porsches you will ever find.
The Porsche 964 is the internal name for Porsche 911s manufactured and sold between 1989 and 1994. Designed by Benjamin Dimson in 1986, it featured significant styling revisions over previous 911 models, most prominently the more integrated bumpers.
A new naturally aspirated engine called the M64 was used for 964 models, with a flat-6 displacement of 3.6-litres. Porsche substantially revised the suspension, replacing the rear torsion bars with coil springs and shock absorbers. Power steering and ABS brakes were added to the 911 for the first time; both were standard. The exterior bumpers and fog lamps became flush into the car, allowing for better aerodynamics. Furthermore, a new electric rear spoiler rose up at speeds above 50 mph and lowered down flush with the rear engine lid at lower speeds, or at rest.
In 1992, Porsche produced a lightweight, rear-wheel-drive only version of the 964 called the Carrera RS. The RS was fitted with a revised version of the standard engine titled M64/03 internally which had an increased power output of 256hp and a lightweight flywheel coupled to the G50/10 gearbox with closer ratios, asymmetrical Limited Slip Differential and steel synchromesh.
A stripped-out interior devoid of luxuries such as electric windows, rear seats, air conditioning, and cruise control were part of the RS package, as were the bucket front seats. The bonnet was made of aluminium, the chassis was seam welded, and sound deadening was deleted. Furthermore, the glass was thinner in the doors and rear window. The Carrera RS is approximately 155 kg lighter than the standard model.
The NGTs were further stripped-out with all carpets and soundproofing removed. Front carpets were replaced with plywood footboards, a full welded cage was fitted, and seats were Nomex-covered rather than leather. Additionally, the NGTs featured a long-range fuel tank, plumbed in fire extinguisher, external cut-off, fire extinguisher release, and a relocated DME. Harder and more track focused, these were the great racers and are still running in events like the Nurburgring 24Hrs. A total of just 290 were made.
First registered on 12th December 1991, and supplied new by Porsche in Stuttgart, this rare NGT example is a European specification car and is chassis number 76 out of 290.
The car was to remain in Germany until 2010 having had just three owners, before being exported to its new owner in Japan via Thomas Schmitz a renowned Porsche RS specialist in Germany. At this time he noted in the corresponding documentation that a front-end repair had been carried out on the car.
Showing just 25,000 miles, it's finished in the striking colour of Maritime Blue, which looks good on a 964, and the paintwork is generally excellent with just a few minor blemishes. Inside the car, the cabin is in excellent condition retaining much of the character of a standard 964 but with a more purposeful sporting feel orientated around the driver, helped largely by the addition of the Nomex Recaro bucket seats, a welded roll cage, Alcantara Momo steering wheel, and 4-point harnesses.
Similarly, the engine bay is very clean and tidy commensurate with age and mileage.
Present in the history file are the handbook and the original dealer-supplied maintenance book which is complete with the options code sticker and no less than eight German service stamps. Numerous German documents plus invoices from Porsche and Porsche specialists further verify the service history. The car has been imported into the UK with all duties and taxes paid.
This is a superb example indeed and would make a fine addition to any garage as the 964 is often regarded as the all encompassing true driver's 911. There can be no doubt then that this Carrera RS in NGT specification is one of the most driver-focused and rewarding Porsches you will ever find.
drmark said:
Sat opposite hedgie at wedding yesterday who was looking smug after shorting Deutsche Bank. He was adamant that classic car prices (most but not all) are due a major correction, and if he could find a reliable method of taking short positions in the market he would be filling his boots now.
Hardly rocket science to short DB, its been in the German press almost every week for last 12 months at least. As for Classic cars, only so much around of the right stuff, matching nos etc, never seen so much cash around, prices have some way to go yet for right cars.APOLO1 said:
Hardly rocket science to short DB, its been in the German press almost every week for last 12 months at least. As for Classic cars, only so much around of the right stuff, matching nos etc, never seen so much cash around, prices have some way to go yet for right cars.
He made it sound clever - but I was drunk and the sort of guy who buys when everyone else is selling, and vice versaAsk squirejo
GT4P said:
Quite! Here's a £50k Talbot;http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331985385658?_trksid=p20...
I remember when these were £5k just a few years ago.
BrewsterBear said:
Quite! Here's a £50k Talbot;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331985385658?_trksid=p20...
I remember when these were £5k just a few years ago.
Wow that's a looker - must put that on my To Do list - ridiculous http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331985385658?_trksid=p20...
I remember when these were £5k just a few years ago.
drmark said:
He made it sound clever - but I was drunk and the sort of guy who buys when everyone else is selling, and vice versa
Ask squirejo
Its ok, thought that might be the case...Though no doubt some crap has been dragged along with some nice stuff...I was chatting to London based Swiss bank last month, they have just started to lend out over 50% of agreed value on some classic stuff, at very low interest rates.Ask squirejo
problem is in the demographics in the Western world. We will never return to normal growth or therefore interest rates. Cheap cash everywhere not solving anything, the issue is lack of confidence what makes people hoard and not spend. One point gov't will start taxing the ones that can afford to pay. We are doomed and heading for a massive blow up. So yes, classice cars will go up as we are all intelligent and foresee this happening. Enjoying last moments before we are bankrupted by the state / global war.
Happy sunday
Happy sunday
Wudee said:
problem is in the demographics in the Western world. We will never return to normal growth or therefore interest rates. Cheap cash everywhere not solving anything, the issue is lack of confidence what makes people hoard and not spend. One point gov't will start taxing the ones that can afford to pay. We are doomed and heading for a massive blow up. So yes, classice cars will go up as we are all intelligent and foresee this happening. Enjoying last moments before we are bankrupted by the state / global war.
Happy sunday
Thanks , I feel so much better now Happy sunday
Wudee said:
problem is in the demographics in the Western world. We will never return to normal growth or therefore interest rates. Cheap cash everywhere not solving anything, the issue is lack of confidence what makes people hoard and not spend. One point gov't will start taxing the ones that can afford to pay. We are doomed and heading for a massive blow up. So yes, classice cars will go up as we are all intelligent and foresee this happening. Enjoying last moments before we are bankrupted by the state / global war.
Happy sunday
Perhaps but I think GB will be far more resilient over the medium and long term than most countries in Europe in fact the only exception will be Germany once they have a new govt. US economy in chaos too although to be fair they're all govts/central/fed bank are doing a sterling job of papering over the cracks everywhere. There seems to be a belief that if you delay the inevitable it may go away and or you buy yourself time to come up with a permanent fix. Can't see what else govts can do.Happy sunday
BrewsterBear said:
Quite! Here's a £50k Talbot;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331985385658?_trksid=p20...
I remember when these were £5k just a few years ago.
god I had one of those nearly 30 years ago when everyone else were driving Ford XR2/XR3, they have been £5-£15k for a few years and top dollar for a good late model I think they were called "avon" and in moonstone blue!http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331985385658?_trksid=p20...
I remember when these were £5k just a few years ago.
Good fun cars, great engine but the handling was crap on standard factory set up!
So a thread that is over a year old ?
Clearly the answer was no, the bubble was not about to burst.
In the year since the thread started classic car values have charged on regardless of the naysayers.
However the market is as fussy as it always has been. The right cars can name their price (1.8m for a 993 Gt2 etc), and marmite cars are always orphans.
I cashed out this week (and instantly regretted it) but over 100% profit in less than 5 years of very enjoyable ownership has to be seen as a win. In usual Porsche style the car never let me down, it always looked fabulous, and every journey was an event.
My car was very saleable in the current market, the right colour spec condition and history. I achieved a sale price to a dealer which was about what I could expect to achieve in a private sale. Lucky bugger retailed said car within a couple of hours, as we both knew he would.
So what now.......a decent chunk of cash in the bank, but absolutely nothing I want to buy that gives me the same return.
Clearly the answer was no, the bubble was not about to burst.
In the year since the thread started classic car values have charged on regardless of the naysayers.
However the market is as fussy as it always has been. The right cars can name their price (1.8m for a 993 Gt2 etc), and marmite cars are always orphans.
I cashed out this week (and instantly regretted it) but over 100% profit in less than 5 years of very enjoyable ownership has to be seen as a win. In usual Porsche style the car never let me down, it always looked fabulous, and every journey was an event.
My car was very saleable in the current market, the right colour spec condition and history. I achieved a sale price to a dealer which was about what I could expect to achieve in a private sale. Lucky bugger retailed said car within a couple of hours, as we both knew he would.
So what now.......a decent chunk of cash in the bank, but absolutely nothing I want to buy that gives me the same return.
AlvinSultana said:
So a thread that is over a year old ?
Clearly the answer was no, the bubble was not about to burst.
In the year since the thread started classic car values have charged on regardless of the naysayers.
However the market is as fussy as it always has been. The right cars can name their price (1.8m for a 993 Gt2 etc), and marmite cars are always orphans.
I cashed out this week (and instantly regretted it) but over 100% profit in less than 5 years of very enjoyable ownership has to be seen as a win. In usual Porsche style the car never let me down, it always looked fabulous, and every journey was an event.
My car was very saleable in the current market, the right colour spec condition and history. I achieved a sale price to a dealer which was about what I could expect to achieve in a private sale. Lucky bugger retailed said car within a couple of hours, as we both knew he would.
So what now.......a decent chunk of cash in the bank, but absolutely nothing I want to buy that gives me the same return.
Good time, to start your own topic now.Clearly the answer was no, the bubble was not about to burst.
In the year since the thread started classic car values have charged on regardless of the naysayers.
However the market is as fussy as it always has been. The right cars can name their price (1.8m for a 993 Gt2 etc), and marmite cars are always orphans.
I cashed out this week (and instantly regretted it) but over 100% profit in less than 5 years of very enjoyable ownership has to be seen as a win. In usual Porsche style the car never let me down, it always looked fabulous, and every journey was an event.
My car was very saleable in the current market, the right colour spec condition and history. I achieved a sale price to a dealer which was about what I could expect to achieve in a private sale. Lucky bugger retailed said car within a couple of hours, as we both knew he would.
So what now.......a decent chunk of cash in the bank, but absolutely nothing I want to buy that gives me the same return.
What can you replace, it with after selling?
AlvinSultana said:
So a thread that is over a year old ?
Clearly the answer was no, the bubble was not about to burst.
In the year since the thread started classic car values have charged on regardless of the naysayers.
However the market is as fussy as it always has been. The right cars can name their price (1.8m for a 993 Gt2 etc), and marmite cars are always orphans.
I cashed out this week (and instantly regretted it) but over 100% profit in less than 5 years of very enjoyable ownership has to be seen as a win. In usual Porsche style the car never let me down, it always looked fabulous, and every journey was an event.
My car was very saleable in the current market, the right colour spec condition and history. I achieved a sale price to a dealer which was about what I could expect to achieve in a private sale. Lucky bugger retailed said car within a couple of hours, as we both knew he would.
So what now.......a decent chunk of cash in the bank, but absolutely nothing I want to buy that gives me the same return.
Heres my suggestion. Go out and find the nicest Boxster S for £6k that you can and just enjoy it to the max.Clearly the answer was no, the bubble was not about to burst.
In the year since the thread started classic car values have charged on regardless of the naysayers.
However the market is as fussy as it always has been. The right cars can name their price (1.8m for a 993 Gt2 etc), and marmite cars are always orphans.
I cashed out this week (and instantly regretted it) but over 100% profit in less than 5 years of very enjoyable ownership has to be seen as a win. In usual Porsche style the car never let me down, it always looked fabulous, and every journey was an event.
My car was very saleable in the current market, the right colour spec condition and history. I achieved a sale price to a dealer which was about what I could expect to achieve in a private sale. Lucky bugger retailed said car within a couple of hours, as we both knew he would.
So what now.......a decent chunk of cash in the bank, but absolutely nothing I want to buy that gives me the same return.
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