Is the bubble about to burst?

[mollytherocker]

highway said:

Much as I've loved owning my 993 these past 6 years, the current price rises are becoming to hard to ignore. Im minded to try and cash out at top dollar then dive back in for something more modern.

You should sell it. You obviously dont love it. I ain't selling mine.

[YoungMD]

It just simply amazing that some people still think there is no bubble, and there is no drop coming for cars where values have gone up ridiculous % in the last couple of years.

Economics is pretty simple, it if goes up more than inflation its
Coming down... Some exceptions but not many, and certainly not all air cooled porsches.

I think there is some truth in what is said and prices rising above inflation to a degree is justified but a small degree, anybody that thinks resent rises are rational is on the wacky back.

Real shame for sure is that now more than ever air cooled porsches are owned by non- enthusiastics that don't use them, never see any on the road these days...

[Colonel Panic]

mollytherocker said:

highway said:

Much as I've loved owning my 993 these past 6 years, the current price rises are becoming to hard to ignore. Im minded to try and cash out at top dollar then dive back in for something more modern.

You should sell it. You obviously dont love it. I ain't selling mine.

I personally think he'd be doing exactly the right thing. No doubt at all that the right 996/997 is just as desirable (or more) to many as a 993 and having a big lump of cash in the bank would make it even sweeter.

[Innowaybored]

Something interesting is happening - certainly in the private market. I search everyday on Autotrader, PH etc for "the one". Ignoring the oceans of Porsches that have been abused and focusing on what I'm rightly or wrongly perceiving as the better quality end it would seem many cars are sticking. Private sales just don't see much movement.

I'm seriously considering 2 x 996 C4S at the moment. I get the feeling I'm the only guy looking at them because both are falling over themselves to answer all questions, send more photos etc etc. Now this may be because they are Porsche enthusiasts (of which I don't doubt) but if the market was as good as some dealers are trying to claim why are decent, well maintained cars sticking so much?

Could it be that prices being asked for clean 996 C4S are now not far off a clean 997.2 ? (about £5K difference). I'm getting the feeling that an immaculate C4S should be around £20-23 and ropier versions back to sub £20 figures. Instead we have a bun fight around the £22K mark with some still asking £25K for a decent one.

On the Times car site lots of 996 seem to be coming down in price (although I have no idea if that is a sales ploy)

I REALLY want to start my Porsche journey but am slightly concerned that I'm buying at the wrong time.

[georgeq]

Innowaybored said:

Something interesting is happening - certainly in the private market. I search everyday on Autotrader, PH etc for "the one". Ignoring the oceans of Porsches that have been abused and focusing on what I'm rightly or wrongly perceiving as the better quality end it would seem many cars are sticking. Private sales just don't see much movement.

I'm seriously considering 2 x 996 C4S at the moment. I get the feeling I'm the only guy looking at them because both are falling over themselves to answer all questions, send more photos etc etc. Now this may be because they are Porsche enthusiasts (of which I don't doubt) but if the market was as good as some dealers are trying to claim why are decent, well maintained cars sticking so much?

Could it be that prices being asked for clean 996 C4S are now not far off a clean 997.2 ? (about £5K difference). I'm getting the feeling that an immaculate C4S should be around £20-23 and ropier versions back to sub £20 figures. Instead we have a bun fight around the £22K mark with some still asking £25K for a decent one.

On the Times car site lots of 996 seem to be coming down in price (although I have no idea if that is a sales ploy)

I REALLY want to start my Porsche journey but am slightly concerned that I'm buying at the wrong time.

A lot of solid cars on the classifieds sites are taking surprisingly long to sell, many don't seem to sell at all. This includes "red hot" cars like the 3.2 SC, 930 Turbos, 996 Turbos as well as the "blue chip" cars like 1973 911S.
The effect could be seasonal... or maybe it is the beginning of a long overdue correction. I am holding off with my purchase for now. My next car is not meant to be an investment but I do acknowledge that a lot of cars are overvalued at the moment and do not wish to be the one "holding the bag" when the music stops.

[Koln-RS]

My understanding is the nicest examples, that tick all the boxes, never reach the classifieds, and those that do go very quickly.

Agree that there are quite a few that have 'stuck', some for several months - but there's probably something holding them back - usually over-priced, and mileage also seems to be a determining factor.

I see aspects of the market struggling, and other aspects continuing to prosper, but not a total collapse.

[SEE YA]

georgeq said:

Innowaybored said:

Something interesting is happening - certainly in the private market. I search everyday on Autotrader, PH etc for "the one". Ignoring the oceans of Porsches that have been abused and focusing on what I'm rightly or wrongly perceiving as the better quality end it would seem many cars are sticking. Private sales just don't see much movement.

I'm seriously considering 2 x 996 C4S at the moment. I get the feeling I'm the only guy looking at them because both are falling over themselves to answer all questions, send more photos etc etc. Now this may be because they are Porsche enthusiasts (of which I don't doubt) but if the market was as good as some dealers are trying to claim why are decent, well maintained cars sticking so much?

Could it be that prices being asked for clean 996 C4S are now not far off a clean 997.2 ? (about £5K difference). I'm getting the feeling that an immaculate C4S should be around £20-23 and ropier versions back to sub £20 figures. Instead we have a bun fight around the £22K mark with some still asking £25K for a decent one.

On the Times car site lots of 996 seem to be coming down in price (although I have no idea if that is a sales ploy)

I REALLY want to start my Porsche journey but am slightly concerned that I'm buying at the wrong time.

A lot of solid cars on the classifieds sites are taking surprisingly long to sell, many don't seem to sell at all. This includes "red hot" cars like the 3.2 SC, 930 Turbos, 996 Turbos as well as the "blue chip" cars like 1973 911S.
The effect could be seasonal... or maybe it is the beginning of a long overdue correction. I am holding off with my purchase for now. My next car is not meant to be an investment but I do acknowledge that a lot of cars are overvalued at the moment and do not wish to be the one "holding the bag" when the music stops.

The thing is when is the right time, if you wait like many people have done you may find the car you want is out of your reach price wise?

Buy the best you can, for the money you have at the time.
Then improve the car you have.

If I had waited I would never have got my old 911 gone up in value to much.
They are not going to drop either, to under 20k again that is for sure.
Price's may drop a small bit, on certain models but nothing like a major bubble burst.

Edited by SEE YA on Sunday 30th August 14:29

[supersport]

Innowaybored said:

Something interesting is happening - certainly in the private market. I search everyday on Autotrader, PH etc for "the one". Ignoring the oceans of Porsches that have been abused and focusing on what I'm rightly or wrongly perceiving as the better quality end it would seem many cars are sticking. Private sales just don't see much movement.

I'm seriously considering 2 x 996 C4S at the moment. I get the feeling I'm the only guy looking at them because both are falling over themselves to answer all questions, send more photos etc etc. Now this may be because they are Porsche enthusiasts (of which I don't doubt) but if the market was as good as some dealers are trying to claim why are decent, well maintained cars sticking so much?

Could it be that prices being asked for clean 996 C4S are now not far off a clean 997.2 ? (about £5K difference). I'm getting the feeling that an immaculate C4S should be around £20-23 and ropier versions back to sub £20 figures. Instead we have a bun fight around the £22K mark with some still asking £25K for a decent one.

On the Times car site lots of 996 seem to be coming down in price (although I have no idea if that is a sales ploy)

I REALLY want to start my Porsche journey but am slightly concerned that I'm buying at the wrong time.

Are you buying to invest or for the driving experience?

If you want it to drive, just buy the thing and enjoy. At those price levels you're not going to loose much if and if you are lucky you might get your money back, how good would that be :-) The reality is that what other car are you going to buy and not loose most of its value on, and yet get so much out of?

[g7jhp]

SEE YA said:

The thing is when is the right time, if you wait like many people have done you may find the car you want is out of your reach price wise?

Buy the best you can, for the money you have at the time.
Then improve the car you have.

If I had waited I would never have got my old 911 gone up in value to much.
They are not going to drop either, to under 20k again that is for sure.
Price's may drop a small bit, on certain models but nothing like a major bubble burst.

You got lucky and bought your 930 turbo when it was relatively cheap.

Buying a similar car now whilst we're at a high would be foolish IMO especially if you then had to spend £10k+ on bringing it up to scratch. There's a fair chance of a correction and although the right cars won't drop to 2008-2010 prices it would still be a sizable saving which could go into the ongoing maintenance/upgrades.

[SEE YA]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes I did my research bought a good 930, however all old cars need to be looked after and cost money. If I had bought the wrong one, it would have cost a lot more. It was not luck, I got the right 930 looked at 12.
Value not important, enjoyment is LeMans trips car shows etc.

[g7jhp]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes, not questioning the car, but timing wise purchase prices were low and have risen by a massive amount in the last few years. I know yours is a keeper and increase brings other issues like increased insurance premium but it's always nice to know 'you're up' if and when the time comes to part with it.

Currently the 996 range, 987.2 and 997.2's look like the 'value' picks at current prices!

[SEE YA]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

At the time that was there value,and what sellers were asking for them. I had the cash so went for it.

I never knew like many others, how the market value would go mad in the classic car world.

I could not afford one now, at todays prices many people are in the same position over a car they wanted.
If I sold it could not get another one later on.

[SEE YA]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[Geesus]

georgeq said:

A lot of solid cars on the classifieds sites are taking surprisingly long to sell, many don't seem to sell at all. This includes "red hot" cars like the 3.2 SC, 930 Turbos, 996 Turbos as well as the "blue chip" cars like 1973 911S.
The effect could be seasonal... or maybe it is the beginning of a long overdue correction. I am holding off with my purchase for now. My next car is not meant to be an investment but I do acknowledge that a lot of cars are overvalued at the moment and do not wish to be the one "holding the bag" when the music stops.

I'm in the same boat, although I'm keen on a 997.1 GT3 or a 996.2 GT3.
There's a lot of cars that aren't selling and even some price drops.

I'm holding off

[Crimp]

Market has slowed down without a doubt, saying that there has been 930's/3.2's on sale for well over 12 months so it goes without saying that these cars have been overpriced despite the market slowing IMO
If I was in a position to buy I would be waiting 12-18 months for some price corrections

[_Leg_]

£2.3M for a La Ferrari. LOL!

[supersport]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Simon bought his car about the same time I bought mine, and he is right. At that time, 10 years ago, that is what they were worth. For the first 7 years they pretty much did nothing value wise.

It wasn't luck, it was when we happened to be looking at buying and we decided that at that time they were worth spending on.

I remember Peter Morgan writing in an article about the value of his 911 S over the 20 years he'd owned it, up and down like the preverbal draws . I dare say the same will happen with these. It only matters if you are selling, personally never going to happen.

[supersport]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Only in the same way that someone who bought a house in London after the war is now sitting on a pile. Don't really see that as luck.

As a modern buyer, do you sit around wishing you were 30, 40, 50 years younger?

At the end of the day, they now cost what they cost. If you want one that's what you have to pay. Yes it's sad that they are, no longer at Everyman prices,but wishing that things were different isn't going to change anything. So a buyer has to decide how much they actually want one, and what effect a price drop will have.

Many buy new everyday cars at this price point and higher and pretty much kiss goodbye to every penny they spend and seemingly think notHing of it. Alternatively you could spend the same on a 911 with the opportunity of not loosing much if anything. Even if the "bubble" bursts, there would still be decent value.

[ORD]

I agree with the scruffy bugger.

And, yes, people buying property in West London in the 1950s-1970s got very lucky indeed. In fact, the generation of people now in their 60s very extremely lucky to be born when they were! Unparalleled ease of becoming wealthy.

[g7jhp]

supersport said:

Only in the same way that someone who bought a house in London after the war is now sitting on a pile. Don't really see that as luck.

As a modern buyer, do you sit around wishing you were 30, 40, 50 years younger?

At the end of the day, they now cost what they cost. If you want one that's what you have to pay. Yes it's sad that they are, no longer at Everyman prices,but wishing that things were different isn't going to change anything. So a buyer has to decide how much they actually want one, and what effect a price drop will have.

Many buy new everyday cars at this price point and higher and pretty much kiss goodbye to every penny they spend and seemingly think notHing of it. Alternatively you could spend the same on a 911 with the opportunity of not loosing much if anything. Even if the "bubble" bursts, there would still be decent value.

If you'd bought a house in London in 2006 and then needed to sell in 2009 you may not have felt so 'lucky'.

You got lucky you bought at the right time, before a rise.

Today buying an aircooled car would be a risk, there's a high probability of prices dropping.

Comparing it to a new car is wrong because many enthusiasts buy classics with the knowledge they won't have to take a bit depreciation hit (like a new car) and that will offset against the higher running and maintenance costs.

Classics are less appealing it you buy high, have to pay higher running costs and face a potential drop in value. If you want one now you would be well advised to sit tight and see what happens in the next 12-18 months.

Edited by g7jhp on Tuesday 1st September 11:12