Is the bubble about to burst?
Discussion
SEE YA said:
Do you have a list?
You can watch it live and see the previous lots on here:https://live.proxibid.com/BidderWeb/main.do?auctio...
355Chris355 said:
SEE YA said:
Do you have a list?
You can watch it live and see the previous lots on here:https://live.proxibid.com/BidderWeb/main.do?auctio...
914 £20K WOW
Thanks for posting the auction list.
There are a few which on the surface seem to have ended bellow expectations, but interestingly a few of these have identical cars which sold for many times as much, so obviously a back story on the ones selling low, maybe they had rocky pasts shown in HPI reports or are not as nice as the photos would have you think.
I still don't think I can see a bubble popping. At some point in the future there is bound to be a panic caused by one event or another, which will see a few people getting the jitters, but once the dust has settled, I still think that the prices will rebound again due to a lack of supply.
I think the most delicate part of the market are the 996 GT3's, which although for a long time have been undervalued, I think may be selling a bit high right now in the light of the numbers of them around, these cars have not been leaving the UK on ships bound for the likes of Australia and the far east like the "classics have", but that is a different thing to the classic car bubble discussed here as they are not really a classic in the same sense as air cooled 911's are due to age.
Besides, they made a lot more GT3's than they ever made 1973 RS examples even before the recent exodus of cars.. Supply and demand I think will fuel this fire.
There are a few which on the surface seem to have ended bellow expectations, but interestingly a few of these have identical cars which sold for many times as much, so obviously a back story on the ones selling low, maybe they had rocky pasts shown in HPI reports or are not as nice as the photos would have you think.
I still don't think I can see a bubble popping. At some point in the future there is bound to be a panic caused by one event or another, which will see a few people getting the jitters, but once the dust has settled, I still think that the prices will rebound again due to a lack of supply.
I think the most delicate part of the market are the 996 GT3's, which although for a long time have been undervalued, I think may be selling a bit high right now in the light of the numbers of them around, these cars have not been leaving the UK on ships bound for the likes of Australia and the far east like the "classics have", but that is a different thing to the classic car bubble discussed here as they are not really a classic in the same sense as air cooled 911's are due to age.
Besides, they made a lot more GT3's than they ever made 1973 RS examples even before the recent exodus of cars.. Supply and demand I think will fuel this fire.
ChrisW. said:
I certainly agree that life isn't a museum ...
QED -- to try the range there will probably be an evolution of car ownership that is fascinating for the fact that in these respects, one can speak fondly from personal experience.
My challenge is, when a price doubles in a year, where is the real value ?
Combine with this the acceleration in the quality and performance of most new cars --- who would not want to play (for example) with a McLaren as well as a GT3 ??
And what if to add a little spice, the McLaren became a more cost effective ownership experience than the GT3 ? My GT3's were never "cheap" to run by the time I had paid for various radiators, dampers, exhaust boxes, drop links etc etc ... even on secondhand cars with the most detailed service histories ...
This is where the competition now is for the Porsche pot --- particularly when secondhand values do silly things and there is no real shortage of metal to buy ...
Audi R8 V10 ? Various generations of M3 ? Audi RS4 ? Golf R ?
Why so much expense on the Gt3?had my Rs for 4 years and its cost me a max for £500 bi-annually for servicing from a main agent..you must have spanked yours to have all that maintenance done?QED -- to try the range there will probably be an evolution of car ownership that is fascinating for the fact that in these respects, one can speak fondly from personal experience.
My challenge is, when a price doubles in a year, where is the real value ?
Combine with this the acceleration in the quality and performance of most new cars --- who would not want to play (for example) with a McLaren as well as a GT3 ??
And what if to add a little spice, the McLaren became a more cost effective ownership experience than the GT3 ? My GT3's were never "cheap" to run by the time I had paid for various radiators, dampers, exhaust boxes, drop links etc etc ... even on secondhand cars with the most detailed service histories ...
This is where the competition now is for the Porsche pot --- particularly when secondhand values do silly things and there is no real shortage of metal to buy ...
Audi R8 V10 ? Various generations of M3 ? Audi RS4 ? Golf R ?
hunter 66 said:
kayc take it out the garage and on track ( at a reasonable pace ) and big wear will occur ........like any car ...
That is true...but I haven't ..and wont..i want my car to be worth something in years to come..if I knock the s
t out of it why should I expect to get top money for it?this is where the market falls down and has done for years..every battered hard-driven heap suddenly is supposed to be worth loads coz the car market is bid..only the top cars are sought after when the market drops..I'd argue that if you own a GT3 of any description that you only drive on the road and don't take on track at least occasionally you've not been cost effective with your money and should have bought something else, unless:
a) you're just ticking a bucket list box and moving onto something else shortly
or
b) it's an investment punt and the driving isn't really important
My 997 GT3 experience taught me that you only really get to know them and appreciate them on track. This is true for pretty much any Porsche to be fair, but multiplied many times over with a GT3 IMO
a) you're just ticking a bucket list box and moving onto something else shortly
or
b) it's an investment punt and the driving isn't really important
My 997 GT3 experience taught me that you only really get to know them and appreciate them on track. This is true for pretty much any Porsche to be fair, but multiplied many times over with a GT3 IMO
Mario149 said:
I'd argue that if you own a GT3 of any description that you only drive on the road and don't take on track at least occasionally you've not been cost effective with your money
Unless you whip the ass off it around somewhere like the Pyrenees instead. Now a GT3 would be the weapon of choice there for me
Mario149 said:
I'd argue that if you own a GT3 of any description that you only drive on the road and don't take on track at least occasionally you've not been cost effective with your money and should have bought something else, unless:
a) you're just ticking a bucket list box and moving onto something else shortly
or
b) it's an investment punt and the driving isn't really important
My 997 GT3 experience taught me that you only really get to know them and appreciate them on track. This is true for pretty much any Porsche to be fair, but multiplied many times over with a GT3 IMO
I agree and its been a strange one for me..had 80 cars/motorycles seen I left school many years ago..finally after 30 years of losing money like most of us I decided to buy what I thought was an undervalued car that I could have fun with without losing my ba) you're just ticking a bucket list box and moving onto something else shortly
or
b) it's an investment punt and the driving isn't really important
My 997 GT3 experience taught me that you only really get to know them and appreciate them on track. This is true for pretty much any Porsche to be fair, but multiplied many times over with a GT3 IMO
ks..996 gt3rs fitted the bill perfectly however has done better than I expected financially..do I just drive the wheels off it and don't care or keep it in mint condition and drive my other cars/motorbikes that offer equal pleasure?imo i'll keep the rs concourse and drive the others!I think the track aspect is correct. There isn't a road about where you could legally or safely exploit any current or recent 911 to the full.
As for maintenance, as well as usage, I think it comes down also to the type of individual; if you are meticulous and of a mechanically curious and sympathetic bent, you will be spending far more. I'm a mechanical engineer by qualification and profession, so I really don't like to skimp on maintenance - even my mountain bikes get two services a year, because I simply cannot stand the annoyance and inconvenience of avoidable breakdowns and failures. My personal mindset with 'stuff' is, if I can't afford to run it properly and meticulously, I can't afford it full stop. I realise this may be a sickness.
As for maintenance, as well as usage, I think it comes down also to the type of individual; if you are meticulous and of a mechanically curious and sympathetic bent, you will be spending far more. I'm a mechanical engineer by qualification and profession, so I really don't like to skimp on maintenance - even my mountain bikes get two services a year, because I simply cannot stand the annoyance and inconvenience of avoidable breakdowns and failures. My personal mindset with 'stuff' is, if I can't afford to run it properly and meticulously, I can't afford it full stop. I realise this may be a sickness.
There is one public road you can the Ring ............ had a high speed spin in mine there ... yeeehhaaa
But that is the truth which is understandable as they are now too expensive to track sadly .....and now most track days seem to be GT3 free ( besides Cups )
But that is the truth which is understandable as they are now too expensive to track sadly .....and now most track days seem to be GT3 free ( besides Cups )
Edited by hunter 66 on Tuesday 27th October 16:42
hondansx said:
Budflicker said:
16000 mile 2010 997 GT3 gen 2 max bid offered £85k passed as not met reserve.
I think that shows the ones at the dealers to be a bit toppy at the moment.
Worth noting that was a LHD car.I think that shows the ones at the dealers to be a bit toppy at the moment.
Very interesting thread here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
squirejo said:
No, you are bang on. If you keep it you still need to insure it, and the additional premium for inclusive track cover is negligible. So you max downside is something like 2.5k on an 80k plus car. Don't get it myself......
I do get this and was/am one of those guys. The issue to me is that the downside of a major prang on track is substantial in terms of long terms cost of ownership. Here's an example...- if you destroy the £1,500 BMW in your example you are down £1,500 and take it to the scrap yard
- if you bend your GT3RS and you're insured, the insurance fixes it. But when you try to sell it you will get hammered (and hardly anyone honestly keeps these cars forever so resale does matter) as the market hates a repaired car. All of a sudden, instead of the £150k you thought you'd get for it that number is £100k (made up for the sake of the point, but it's a huge delta) so your loss is £50k
For some of the very rich a £50k loss is OK, but even the very rich got rich by making some judgements. To me and I suspect many others judging by the cars on track days that's a big factor.
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