Anyone used a Stomski jig to remove 996 exhaust studs?
Discussion
DH01 said:
Copperslip? Are you sure ? Lots of different metals interacting there, can only cause more problems in the future.
I would use copper, aluminum type can set like concrete in my limited exerience. Porsche use to use copper slip for steel to aluminum interfaces on engines in the old days and it worked a treat - as anyone working on 928 water pump will know as the job got harder when they stopped (snapped studs etc).Now on my 4th 996 on which I have replacement exhaust bolts. The first one done 8 years ago is still corrosion free and the bolts are easily removeable.
The original rust magnet bolts supplied by Posche are 28mm long.
If you use 30mm stainless bolts with heavy washers they wont be anywhere near bottoming out. Also use plenty of copperslip and torque up at 20ft/lb
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161767051828?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361491020108?_trksid=p20...
If at all possible replace one at a time so as not to disturb the manifold gasket seal.
Its a cheap and effective cure. It baffles me why Porsche continue to supply such poor quality fixings on their cars?
The original rust magnet bolts supplied by Posche are 28mm long.
If you use 30mm stainless bolts with heavy washers they wont be anywhere near bottoming out. Also use plenty of copperslip and torque up at 20ft/lb
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161767051828?_trksid=p20...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361491020108?_trksid=p20...
If at all possible replace one at a time so as not to disturb the manifold gasket seal.
Its a cheap and effective cure. It baffles me why Porsche continue to supply such poor quality fixings on their cars?
A huge thanks for all the informative replies and the links too.
I have the tool, new gaskets, and about to order the stainless bolts/washers. I have booked next Thur/Fri off work to get stuck in, I shall report back...
Now the Stomski tool is here and I have taken it out the case I can report it is a heck of a bit of kit.
I have the tool, new gaskets, and about to order the stainless bolts/washers. I have booked next Thur/Fri off work to get stuck in, I shall report back...
Now the Stomski tool is here and I have taken it out the case I can report it is a heck of a bit of kit.
I got home at 5:30pm today, as this is relatively early and it was light I thought I would get a head start on my gasket replacement this weekend. I apologise for the quality of these photos, but I am underneath my car with a smart phone.
Firstly, the Gumgum repair I mentioned at the start of this thread. It is not pretty, but blimey it has been effective. Clearly I will clean all this up to look spangly as part of the repair:
Next I cleaned up my rusty blobs that passed as bolt heads, and soaked in penetrating oil. Then... nervously... I started to apply some torque to see if they would budge, or just round/strip/snap straight away.
Low and behold, they come out without any fuss, one by one:
Five out, one to go (the one nearest the repair) and it snaps the head off the minute I try and rotate it:
With the exhaust off, and old gasket removed, it is easy to see where it has failed:
That was an hour and a half of spannering, which is enough for a school night. So I almost don't need the Stomski tool, nearly got all six bolts out! I will use the jig on that last remaining snapped bolt, and update the thread.
Firstly, the Gumgum repair I mentioned at the start of this thread. It is not pretty, but blimey it has been effective. Clearly I will clean all this up to look spangly as part of the repair:
Next I cleaned up my rusty blobs that passed as bolt heads, and soaked in penetrating oil. Then... nervously... I started to apply some torque to see if they would budge, or just round/strip/snap straight away.
Low and behold, they come out without any fuss, one by one:
Five out, one to go (the one nearest the repair) and it snaps the head off the minute I try and rotate it:
With the exhaust off, and old gasket removed, it is easy to see where it has failed:
That was an hour and a half of spannering, which is enough for a school night. So I almost don't need the Stomski tool, nearly got all six bolts out! I will use the jig on that last remaining snapped bolt, and update the thread.
monty999 said:
steveo3002 said:
bet some heat would move that , any chance of welding a nut over it ?
That seems a very good idea, I think thats what I would go for before drilling.
You have to have the remaining bolt flush with the face of the head before you can drill it out so you have nothing to lose at this point.
Good luck......
Thanks for the continued input guys. I am making this a bit pic heavy for anyone in the future thinking about how to tackle this job. I did try heat, but anything based on rotation seems to be a dead end in getting it to shift.
So last night I thought I would put a little more time into proceedings, and I cut the bolt off flush:
Then I attached the Stomski jig with the two thumb screws:
It lines up pretty good! Dead on I reckon:
At which time it is time to start with the smallest drill first:
This is an optical illusion of sorts, you are actually looking into the hole drilled into the snapped bolt:
At this point the light was fading and I didn't want to rush things for the next crucial step, so I left it for the night.
When I got up today I thought I would have a go at the other bank, before being antisocial to my neighbours and using drills on that last stuck bolt first thing in the morning.
Prepare to hate me a bit.... all six bolts came out the other manifold with ease:
What a relief! Both sides off now. 12 studs out, only one snapped. Time to clean up all the mating surfaces and remove what is left of that last bolt.
So last night I thought I would put a little more time into proceedings, and I cut the bolt off flush:
Then I attached the Stomski jig with the two thumb screws:
It lines up pretty good! Dead on I reckon:
At which time it is time to start with the smallest drill first:
This is an optical illusion of sorts, you are actually looking into the hole drilled into the snapped bolt:
At this point the light was fading and I didn't want to rush things for the next crucial step, so I left it for the night.
When I got up today I thought I would have a go at the other bank, before being antisocial to my neighbours and using drills on that last stuck bolt first thing in the morning.
Prepare to hate me a bit.... all six bolts came out the other manifold with ease:
What a relief! Both sides off now. 12 studs out, only one snapped. Time to clean up all the mating surfaces and remove what is left of that last bolt.
These models have 3 bolts per exhaust port so Im not sure if Stomski make a jig for them?Well, time to update on progress.
Once the bolt was drilled out (using the larger drill bit that Stomski supply, which is a nervous moment as it seems a little excessive at first look) I was using the tap to chase out the remnants. This is slow, patient, frustrating work:
Then it was time to reassemble everything with new gaskets and stainless steel fixings:
There is now not a single rusty knackered nut, bolt, or washer on the whole system. I have taken the car out and it all seems to be leak-free and as it should be, so happy days.
If I had to give some pointers to others going the Stomski route:
1) This is a long job. In just cleaning up all the mating surfaces, and lining up the gaskets, hours of your life will disappear.
2) When using the jig, remove it often to remove the swarf that builds up, it has nowhere to go when you are drilling away. This is easy, as the thumbscrews make removing it a doddle.
3) Siting right under the engine looking directly up really helps in lining up the metal gaskets and the manifolds themselves, there is a surprising amount of "wriggle room" to get it bang on center if not paying close attention.
4) This took me two days to do the whole system, and I only had one stud to drill out.
5) I only raised the car high enough to get a drill vertical underneath the engine. The rear bumper stayed on, I just removed the wheels and left the silencers mounted in place.
I see the very valid points about turbos and GT variants having a different head design so the jig won't work. My view would be that for the higher value 911s you are excused for paying someone else to tackle this job! I may well have lost my mind if I had several studs snap and I didn't have the Stomski jig. Not a task to take lightly, or do on your car over a weekend if you need it to get to work on Monday!
Once the bolt was drilled out (using the larger drill bit that Stomski supply, which is a nervous moment as it seems a little excessive at first look) I was using the tap to chase out the remnants. This is slow, patient, frustrating work:
Then it was time to reassemble everything with new gaskets and stainless steel fixings:
There is now not a single rusty knackered nut, bolt, or washer on the whole system. I have taken the car out and it all seems to be leak-free and as it should be, so happy days.
If I had to give some pointers to others going the Stomski route:
1) This is a long job. In just cleaning up all the mating surfaces, and lining up the gaskets, hours of your life will disappear.
2) When using the jig, remove it often to remove the swarf that builds up, it has nowhere to go when you are drilling away. This is easy, as the thumbscrews make removing it a doddle.
3) Siting right under the engine looking directly up really helps in lining up the metal gaskets and the manifolds themselves, there is a surprising amount of "wriggle room" to get it bang on center if not paying close attention.
4) This took me two days to do the whole system, and I only had one stud to drill out.
5) I only raised the car high enough to get a drill vertical underneath the engine. The rear bumper stayed on, I just removed the wheels and left the silencers mounted in place.
I see the very valid points about turbos and GT variants having a different head design so the jig won't work. My view would be that for the higher value 911s you are excused for paying someone else to tackle this job! I may well have lost my mind if I had several studs snap and I didn't have the Stomski jig. Not a task to take lightly, or do on your car over a weekend if you need it to get to work on Monday!
Great report on how you fixed your problems. I wish I had the nerve and/or facilities to work on my car like that.
In the last two photos, were the bolts Porsche spec or did you substitute stainless steel? Similar bolts and nuts on my Cayman are suffering from corrosion and if I am about to spend several hundred on labour, then I would rather upgrade the bolts to something that will last more than 4 years.
Cheers,
Graham
In the last two photos, were the bolts Porsche spec or did you substitute stainless steel? Similar bolts and nuts on my Cayman are suffering from corrosion and if I am about to spend several hundred on labour, then I would rather upgrade the bolts to something that will last more than 4 years.
Cheers,
Graham
Only the gaskets were from Porsche.
The bolts and washers for the manifold to head were from the links kindly supplied earlier in the thread.
The other bolts/nuts/washers for the rest of the system were from the local marine chandlery as they have a great range of stainless steel fixings in A2 and A4, and they are very cheap.
The bolts and washers for the manifold to head were from the links kindly supplied earlier in the thread.
The other bolts/nuts/washers for the rest of the system were from the local marine chandlery as they have a great range of stainless steel fixings in A2 and A4, and they are very cheap.
Great job! I tackled the numerous and some non existent bolts on the turbos and manifolds on mine. Not so much luck I'm afraid, I had 6 of the 18 snap manifold bolts sheer. I paid a local engineer that the OPC and indie use to drill them out. What a job!
That was 18 months and 3k miles ago. Although replaced using lots of copper slip, I'm going to order some of those bolts and replace again soon. I vowed to make it part of routine maintenance going forward.
That was 18 months and 3k miles ago. Although replaced using lots of copper slip, I'm going to order some of those bolts and replace again soon. I vowed to make it part of routine maintenance going forward.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff