991 RS ON TRACK
Discussion
Phooey said:
I wonder if it's as quick(er) as some people make out? For all it's power advantage and tech-features the 997 GT3 seems to hold onto it quite well. Might be the quicker car at the traffic lights but when they are moving the performance of both cars isn't too different. Certainly looks that way to me by this recent vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b9ecQyn8ag
Looks to me like the driver is making the difference here - 997 is smooth, 991 not so, look at the way he piles in to the corner behind the 997 and then runs wide - perhaps a new owner getting used to the car, or from appearances not an experienced track day driver.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b9ecQyn8ag
Driver still makes a big difference whatever the relative performance of the cars.
Steve it has a pit lane speed limiter as well ......... as does the race car .
It is a great move forward well done to Porsche ....and it will be a lot easier to get a good time out of than a GT3 race car which lack most of the electronics as you pointed out ..maybe that is why we still like the old animal Porsches ..... 993 GT2R , after a few laps you are drenched in sweat let alone 24 hours ...
Peter
It is a great move forward well done to Porsche ....and it will be a lot easier to get a good time out of than a GT3 race car which lack most of the electronics as you pointed out ..maybe that is why we still like the old animal Porsches ..... 993 GT2R , after a few laps you are drenched in sweat let alone 24 hours ...
Peter
hunter 66 said:
Steve it has a pit lane speed limiter as well ......... as does the race car .
It is a great move forward well done to Porsche ....and it will be a lot easier to get a good time out of than a GT3 race car which lack most of the electronics as you pointed out ..maybe that is why we still like the old animal Porsches ..... 993 GT2R , after a few laps you are drenched in sweat let alone 24 hours ...
Peter
A pit lane limiter?!!! Please tell me that you are joking Peter? It is a great move forward well done to Porsche ....and it will be a lot easier to get a good time out of than a GT3 race car which lack most of the electronics as you pointed out ..maybe that is why we still like the old animal Porsches ..... 993 GT2R , after a few laps you are drenched in sweat let alone 24 hours ...
Peter
Agree with the electronics Old Boy. If you are not part of the game then there's no point in playing.
My criticisms on this car have been about the hyperbole before and after its arrival, like each and every RS before hand and that fact I don't like some of the aesthetics of this version. I still think it's a fantastic toy with which to enjoy track fun and European trips and I would love one. Just don't think time will evidence it's a REALLY big move forward as people are suggesting....but time will tell.
fioran0 said:
Isaldiri,
I wanted to follow back up on your balance comment. I am not sure that this holds for all situations tbh.
Thinking to the change between 997 Cup and 996 Cup (and over to my project Cup) the impact of aero is significant but doesn't hold with this concept.
The 997.1 Cup (as shown from the graph posted earlier) has some decent aero going on (relatively speaking) but its far more rear biased than the weight split of the car at ~38/62.
It works quite effectively though for reasons that are quite clear when understood.
The issue with the 996 and 997 based platforms (and all 911s I assume) is that the rear engine wants to push round while cornering. The faster you are going, the greater the effect becomes. If one wants to be fast and safe the car requires to be set up as neutral as possible for high speed situations by pushing grip to the rear.
The drawback however is that in slower speed stuff the rear engine effect isn't as pronounced. The basic setup that you put on the car to keep it neutral now causes the car to understeer.
The driver learns techniques to deal with this and work with it, and on the 996 Cup - despite the large rear wing - this approach is still very much a feature of setup and driving just as it is with the street GT3 cars on 996 and 997 platforms.
The extra oomph from the 997 Cup wing is enough to change approach somewhat IMV. The rear wing configuration creates more DF and corresponding grip. This increases as speed increases and the increasing grip helps counteract the tendency of the rear to push round when cornering. As a result, in my experience one doesn't have to send as much grip to the rear to achieve the same neutral high speed balance. The knock on effect is that there is less understeer in the slower stuff simply because the grip balance is now less rearwards. The aero drops off with speed keeping the car more neutral across a range of corners. One can then drive the car quite differently than one does with a typical 996 Cup or street GT3. I always found myself driving them from the rear end rather than on the nose after setting them up this way. Others may feel differently.
The later 997 Cups increased rear DF further and also added more front DF. This allowed not only the above benefit but an overall increase in total overall grip.
On my project 996, I am using a larger 997 wing and mounting position to bring some of this to the car. I also like the rear end stability it gives under braking but that is a different topic. People see the large wing and assume that its heavy on push, but this isn't quite what happens when set up appropriately.
Very insightful. Thanks I wanted to follow back up on your balance comment. I am not sure that this holds for all situations tbh.
Thinking to the change between 997 Cup and 996 Cup (and over to my project Cup) the impact of aero is significant but doesn't hold with this concept.
The 997.1 Cup (as shown from the graph posted earlier) has some decent aero going on (relatively speaking) but its far more rear biased than the weight split of the car at ~38/62.
It works quite effectively though for reasons that are quite clear when understood.
The issue with the 996 and 997 based platforms (and all 911s I assume) is that the rear engine wants to push round while cornering. The faster you are going, the greater the effect becomes. If one wants to be fast and safe the car requires to be set up as neutral as possible for high speed situations by pushing grip to the rear.
The drawback however is that in slower speed stuff the rear engine effect isn't as pronounced. The basic setup that you put on the car to keep it neutral now causes the car to understeer.
The driver learns techniques to deal with this and work with it, and on the 996 Cup - despite the large rear wing - this approach is still very much a feature of setup and driving just as it is with the street GT3 cars on 996 and 997 platforms.
The extra oomph from the 997 Cup wing is enough to change approach somewhat IMV. The rear wing configuration creates more DF and corresponding grip. This increases as speed increases and the increasing grip helps counteract the tendency of the rear to push round when cornering. As a result, in my experience one doesn't have to send as much grip to the rear to achieve the same neutral high speed balance. The knock on effect is that there is less understeer in the slower stuff simply because the grip balance is now less rearwards. The aero drops off with speed keeping the car more neutral across a range of corners. One can then drive the car quite differently than one does with a typical 996 Cup or street GT3. I always found myself driving them from the rear end rather than on the nose after setting them up this way. Others may feel differently.
The later 997 Cups increased rear DF further and also added more front DF. This allowed not only the above benefit but an overall increase in total overall grip.
On my project 996, I am using a larger 997 wing and mounting position to bring some of this to the car. I also like the rear end stability it gives under braking but that is a different topic. People see the large wing and assume that its heavy on push, but this isn't quite what happens when set up appropriately.
LaSource said:
lemmingjames said:
But joking aside, I wonder whether like the chrono clock on the 997, it becomes a very cool feature that is actually never used...Can't see myself hitting that every time I enter/exit a pitlane..would you agree?
Who in his right mind would use Sport Chrono on track?LaSource said:
But joking aside, I wonder whether like the chrono clock on the 997, it becomes a very cool feature that is actually never used...Can't see myself hitting that every time I enter/exit a pitlane..would you agree?
If you could set it to a certain speed, i imagine id use it more for going through spec inforced road works as a lazy way of cruise control.Yes im aware that modern cruise control can be preset to a certain speed but this is racecar
k. It will turn heads - that's why it is there!lemmingjames said:
LaSource said:
But joking aside, I wonder whether like the chrono clock on the 997, it becomes a very cool feature that is actually never used...Can't see myself hitting that every time I enter/exit a pitlane..would you agree?
If you could set it to a certain speed, i imagine id use it more for going through spec inforced road works as a lazy way of cruise control.Yes im aware that modern cruise control can be preset to a certain speed but this is racecar
Spent a day at Leipzig test track when picking up 918. RS press launch had just taken place and all the cars were lined up. Didn't drive the RS but did lots of laps in GT3 and 918.
The track has lots of configurations, but the one I was on that day had the following 'lap records' set over time by the Porsche instructors, who had done countless laps in all cars.
GT3 59.7
GT3RS 58.3
918 55.6
Porsche's own 918 which set the time is not as quick as customer ones,
The track has lots of configurations, but the one I was on that day had the following 'lap records' set over time by the Porsche instructors, who had done countless laps in all cars.
GT3 59.7
GT3RS 58.3
918 55.6
Porsche's own 918 which set the time is not as quick as customer ones,
911Viking said:
Somewhat funny, not only here, with everybody having an opinion without even haven driven the car.
Trust me, it would silence every single one of you, the car is just shockingly good. There is nothing out there coming anywhere close.
Apart from a McLaren 650sp which is quicker on poor tyres - see Harris' latest vid.Trust me, it would silence every single one of you, the car is just shockingly good. There is nothing out there coming anywhere close.
Edited by johnfm on Friday 16th October 16:17
Well I've just had a brief go in one. I love the small Steering wheel... and that's about it.
At road-going speeds (as opposed to the Schumacher-in-his-prime speeds YOU gents all drive on track) it's about as remarkable as 2.7 Boxster - there's bugger-all engagement.
Love the absolutely oxymoronic stupidity implied by a fabric door pull situated above electric windows. A magnesium roof on a car with sat-nav. I mean what's the point.
This isn't an RS. The last RS was the 996.
P.S. Any cheap Carrera GT's going?
At road-going speeds (as opposed to the Schumacher-in-his-prime speeds YOU gents all drive on track) it's about as remarkable as 2.7 Boxster - there's bugger-all engagement.
Love the absolutely oxymoronic stupidity implied by a fabric door pull situated above electric windows. A magnesium roof on a car with sat-nav. I mean what's the point.
This isn't an RS. The last RS was the 996.
P.S. Any cheap Carrera GT's going?
Hard to disagree with you there. You could leverage the same argument to the 'normal' GT3, although at least that doesn't have the ironic fabric door pulls!
The reality is you need to use these cars on track. Otherwise, you are literally just driving around a status symbol.
It's really where you stop making comparisons though, as a simple Lotus Elise or Caterham 7 is a far more expressive road car that a 996 GT3 RS.
The reality is you need to use these cars on track. Otherwise, you are literally just driving around a status symbol.
It's really where you stop making comparisons though, as a simple Lotus Elise or Caterham 7 is a far more expressive road car that a 996 GT3 RS.
Murcielago_Boy said:
Well I've just had a brief go in one. I love the small Steering wheel... and that's about it.
At road-going speeds (as opposed to the Schumacher-in-his-prime speeds YOU gents all drive on track) it's about as remarkable as 2.7 Boxster - there's bugger-all engagement.
Love the absolutely oxymoronic stupidity implied by a fabric door pull situated above electric windows. A magnesium roof on a car with sat-nav. I mean what's the point.
This isn't an RS. The last RS was the 996.
P.S. Any cheap Carrera GT's going?
mmm interesting view, have you ever had a go in a 991GT3, I agree on road does not feel a lot faster then than the GT3, but lacking engagement....At road-going speeds (as opposed to the Schumacher-in-his-prime speeds YOU gents all drive on track) it's about as remarkable as 2.7 Boxster - there's bugger-all engagement.
Love the absolutely oxymoronic stupidity implied by a fabric door pull situated above electric windows. A magnesium roof on a car with sat-nav. I mean what's the point.
This isn't an RS. The last RS was the 996.
P.S. Any cheap Carrera GT's going?
More box chatter than the GT3 at low speed, the steering bobs around more than the GT3, faster gear shifts, up and down, in both auto and manual modes...Induction noise etc, front end grip and turn in like no other road car....lots going on..
Press on a bit let the aero comes in, whole new game.......
Murcielago_Boy said:
Well I've just had a brief go in one. I love the small Steering wheel... and that's about it.
At road-going speeds (as opposed to the Schumacher-in-his-prime speeds YOU gents all drive on track) it's about as remarkable as 2.7 Boxster - there's bugger-all engagement.
Love the absolutely oxymoronic stupidity implied by a fabric door pull situated above electric windows. A magnesium roof on a car with sat-nav. I mean what's the point.
This isn't an RS. The last RS was the 996.
P.S. Any cheap Carrera GT's going?
Come on, 2.7 Boxster? That really is ridiculous. You're letting your prejudices blind you.At road-going speeds (as opposed to the Schumacher-in-his-prime speeds YOU gents all drive on track) it's about as remarkable as 2.7 Boxster - there's bugger-all engagement.
Love the absolutely oxymoronic stupidity implied by a fabric door pull situated above electric windows. A magnesium roof on a car with sat-nav. I mean what's the point.
This isn't an RS. The last RS was the 996.
P.S. Any cheap Carrera GT's going?
I've had utterly astonishing drives in my 991 GT3. I've got back and parked it next to the Carrera GT and been fizzing for hours. The RS is something else again.
Sure, the CGT is the best car ever made, by an enormous margin, but these newfangled GT3 and RS models are very special.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff