Evo car of the year 2015 is...... SPOILER!
Discussion
Steve Rance said:
I think that this says as much about where road car design is going as it does about the GT4. Compare a GT4 to a 964RS,993RS,996GT3(any version) and see which car is more engaging. I'll wager The Gt4 will be last by a long way. The wheel hasnt been re invented with the GT4, but hopefully the comitte of twerps who shape Porsche model design may sit up and take note.
This isnt beardy man talk. Give me a race car and I;ll ask for anything that will help my lap time because my only goal is speed. On the road I want some fun, engagement a little challenge and some speed.
Surely I am not alone?
You are clearly not alone but I think for me Steve this has in a way been part of Porsche's success at what cars like the GT and RS cars do. Whether you agree with some of Preuninger's remit or not he said himself 'we are under pressure to make the car faster and faster' and I guess with what is still a 'track orientated road car' if I can call it that comes a lot of the electronics that yourself and others dont like. Cars like the 650S, 458SP and Lambos etc can all do what Porsche do in as much as be driven to the track driven around and driven home - the costs of those others in maintenance would prob be higher (I believe McLaren ask you take the car to them before and after a track session). To me the latest RS in particular has been more designed for going as fast around a track as is possible and less for going to the shops or even having a nice blast through the lanes on a sunday - even though it will do all that very happily. This isnt beardy man talk. Give me a race car and I;ll ask for anything that will help my lap time because my only goal is speed. On the road I want some fun, engagement a little challenge and some speed.
Surely I am not alone?
Unfortunately whilst not alone Steve,its a very small minority you (and I ) are in ,look at the lack of sales of manuals in high performance cars when it is offered.Just read before the last few years of the r8 only 1`% of buyers went for manual .You cannot now buy a manual ferrari ,or lambo .I strongly prefer manual cars for fun,but the choice is getting less and less every year.
Also as much as I agree about the interaction of older cars you mention,they are flawed in many other areas.I think the gt4 has managed to retain a large element of that interaction with all the benefits of the modern car.
Also as much as I agree about the interaction of older cars you mention,they are flawed in many other areas.I think the gt4 has managed to retain a large element of that interaction with all the benefits of the modern car.
franki68 said:
Unfortunately whilst not alone Steve,its a very small minority you (and I ) are in ,look at the lack of sales of manuals in high performance cars when it is offered.Just read before the last few years of the r8 only 1`% of buyers went for manual .You cannot now buy a manual ferrari ,or lambo .I strongly prefer manual cars for fun,but the choice is getting less and less every year.
Also as much as I agree about the interaction of older cars you mention,they are flawed in many other areas.I think the gt4 has managed to retain a large element of that interaction with all the benefits of the modern car.
I wonder if we may see the resurgence of the manual box? The GT4 and now the 991R? Porsche obviously believe its important to keep a foot in this camp, even though they are low volume builds.Also as much as I agree about the interaction of older cars you mention,they are flawed in many other areas.I think the gt4 has managed to retain a large element of that interaction with all the benefits of the modern car.
I can see the market starting to grow again, maybe its already started?
ORD said:
The sound is a massive upside of the Cayman, especially relative to a 911 with the same engine. So much so that I am sending my 997 in for a new exchaust (at a round £6 million from the OPC school of rip off pricing).
Seriously just get a bypass from someone not the full sports exhaust. I retrofitted them to two 997s and they just aren't that loud....Fish said:
Well I drove it for the first time today at PEC... and it's awesome. standout points were the noise and I suppose it's cohesiveness. I took it on the road for a bit and just bimbled and it was lovely. Really excited about the car now...not that I wasn't before!
Nice one I'm there tomorrow . So did the bad weather detract from the handling circuit ? I've booked Barry the 2003 Carrera cup champion that I've 'had' before. Fair play to some track drivers on here but I'm in good hands in the wet ! Steve Rance said:
I think that this says as much about where road car design is going as it does about the GT4. Compare a GT4 to a 964RS,993RS,996GT3(any version) and see which car is more engaging. I'll wager The Gt4 will be last by a long way. The wheel hasnt been re invented with the GT4, but hopefully the comitte of twerps who shape Porsche model design may sit up and take note.
This isnt beardy man talk. Give me a race car and I;ll ask for anything that will help my lap time because my only goal is speed. On the road I want some fun, engagement a little challenge and some speed.
Surely I am not alone?
Steve, I completely disagree with you. Most of the cars you mention are no longer with the people who will make the most of a GT4. This isnt beardy man talk. Give me a race car and I;ll ask for anything that will help my lap time because my only goal is speed. On the road I want some fun, engagement a little challenge and some speed.
Surely I am not alone?
And most of the cars you mention will now be wearing suspension that is suffering from such age and lack of use, that it will make their driver of the day believe on a bumpy road, that the car wants only to throw them into the scenery.
Add to that the complication of finding certain engine and gearbox components -- and the extraordinary value of the most pristinely shiny cars (into which most have been converted), and the result is that most are rarely driven and are now coveted most for their investment potential.
Yes they were at their best, a very very good drive. But they weren't a better drive than a GT4 is now ...
And you can't argue that the GT4 is sanitised so as to be impotent --- Evo make precisely this point in their award.
This award recognises the astonishing dialogue that can be established between driver and car, the spirit of all the cars you mention, but in its most current and useable form.
For 2015 the GT4 is it.
Fish said:
ORD said:
The sound is a massive upside of the Cayman, especially relative to a 911 with the same engine. So much so that I am sending my 997 in for a new exchaust (at a round £6 million from the OPC school of rip off pricing).
Seriously just get a bypass from someone not the full sports exhaust. I retrofitted them to two 997s and they just aren't that loud....ChrisW. said:
Steve, I completely disagree with you. Most of the cars you mention are no longer with the people who will make the most of a GT4.
And most of the cars you mention will now be wearing suspension that is suffering from such age and lack of use, that it will make their driver of the day believe on a bumpy road, that the car wants only to throw them into the scenery.
Add to that the complication of finding certain engine and gearbox components -- and the extraordinary value of the most pristinely shiny cars (into which most have been converted), and the result is that most are rarely driven and are now coveted most for their investment potential.
Yes they were at their best, a very very good drive. But they weren't a better drive than a GT4 is now ...
And you can't argue that the GT4 is sanitised so as to be impotent --- Evo make precisely this point in their award.
This award recognises the astonishing dialogue that can be established between driver and car, the spirit of all the cars you mention, but in its most current and useable form.
For 2015 the GT4 is it.
Spot on
And most of the cars you mention will now be wearing suspension that is suffering from such age and lack of use, that it will make their driver of the day believe on a bumpy road, that the car wants only to throw them into the scenery.
Add to that the complication of finding certain engine and gearbox components -- and the extraordinary value of the most pristinely shiny cars (into which most have been converted), and the result is that most are rarely driven and are now coveted most for their investment potential.
Yes they were at their best, a very very good drive. But they weren't a better drive than a GT4 is now ...
And you can't argue that the GT4 is sanitised so as to be impotent --- Evo make precisely this point in their award.
This award recognises the astonishing dialogue that can be established between driver and car, the spirit of all the cars you mention, but in its most current and useable form.
For 2015 the GT4 is it.
Spot on
Scooty100 said:
Nice one I'm there tomorrow . So did the bad weather detract from the handling circuit ? I've booked Barry the 2003 Carrera cup champion that I've 'had' before. Fair play to some track drivers on here but I'm in good hands in the wet !
had my day in the wet and for me it was more fun and a better experience than if it had been dry!ChrisW. said:
Steve, I completely disagree with you. Most of the cars you mention are no longer with the people who will make the most of a GT4.
And most of the cars you mention will now be wearing suspension that is suffering from such age and lack of use, that it will make their driver of the day believe on a bumpy road, that the car wants only to throw them into the scenery.
Add to that the complication of finding certain engine and gearbox components -- and the extraordinary value of the most pristinely shiny cars (into which most have been converted), and the result is that most are rarely driven and are now coveted most for their investment potential.
Yes they were at their best, a very very good drive. But they weren't a better drive than a GT4 is now ...
And you can't argue that the GT4 is sanitised so as to be impotent --- Evo make precisely this point in their award.
This award recognises the astonishing dialogue that can be established between driver and car, the spirit of all the cars you mention, but in its most current and useable form.
For 2015 the GT4 is it.
Chris. I think that you have missed my point
And most of the cars you mention will now be wearing suspension that is suffering from such age and lack of use, that it will make their driver of the day believe on a bumpy road, that the car wants only to throw them into the scenery.
Add to that the complication of finding certain engine and gearbox components -- and the extraordinary value of the most pristinely shiny cars (into which most have been converted), and the result is that most are rarely driven and are now coveted most for their investment potential.
Yes they were at their best, a very very good drive. But they weren't a better drive than a GT4 is now ...
And you can't argue that the GT4 is sanitised so as to be impotent --- Evo make precisely this point in their award.
This award recognises the astonishing dialogue that can be established between driver and car, the spirit of all the cars you mention, but in its most current and useable form.
For 2015 the GT4 is it.
Chris. I think that you have missed my point
ChrisW. said:
Steve, I completely disagree with you. Most of the cars you mention are no longer with the people who will make the most of a GT4.
And most of the cars you mention will now be wearing suspension that is suffering from such age and lack of use, that it will make their driver of the day believe on a bumpy road, that the car wants only to throw them into the scenery.
Add to that the complication of finding certain engine and gearbox components -- and the extraordinary value of the most pristinely shiny cars (into which most have been converted), and the result is that most are rarely driven and are now coveted most for their investment potential.
Yes they were at their best, a very very good drive. But they weren't a better drive than a GT4 is now ...
And you can't argue that the GT4 is sanitised so as to be impotent --- Evo make precisely this point in their award.
This award recognises the astonishing dialogue that can be established between driver and car, the spirit of all the cars you mention, but in its most current and useable form.
For 2015 the GT4 is it.
Not sure where to begin here...think it better just to leave it be.And most of the cars you mention will now be wearing suspension that is suffering from such age and lack of use, that it will make their driver of the day believe on a bumpy road, that the car wants only to throw them into the scenery.
Add to that the complication of finding certain engine and gearbox components -- and the extraordinary value of the most pristinely shiny cars (into which most have been converted), and the result is that most are rarely driven and are now coveted most for their investment potential.
Yes they were at their best, a very very good drive. But they weren't a better drive than a GT4 is now ...
And you can't argue that the GT4 is sanitised so as to be impotent --- Evo make precisely this point in their award.
This award recognises the astonishing dialogue that can be established between driver and car, the spirit of all the cars you mention, but in its most current and useable form.
For 2015 the GT4 is it.
Chris you have missed the point
Plenty of spares about,cars still get used and most are maintained to a higher level than opc service jockys who cant even notice leaking dampers.
The last car porsche made with good feel and road feedback was the cgt,porsche have lost the plot,and evo award is worth about as much as a chocolate teapot.
Has the gt4 not got the same steering as the gt3,plenty of drivers the other weekend at silverstone on a cold damp track did not have much of a feel for a slippery track,and gripy track.
The gt4 is it for 2015,are you sure!
Plenty of spares about,cars still get used and most are maintained to a higher level than opc service jockys who cant even notice leaking dampers.
The last car porsche made with good feel and road feedback was the cgt,porsche have lost the plot,and evo award is worth about as much as a chocolate teapot.
Has the gt4 not got the same steering as the gt3,plenty of drivers the other weekend at silverstone on a cold damp track did not have much of a feel for a slippery track,and gripy track.
The gt4 is it for 2015,are you sure!
Yellow491 said:
Chris you have missed the point
Plenty of spares about,cars still get used and most are maintained to a higher level than opc service jockys who cant even notice leaking dampers.
The last car porsche made with good feel and road feedback was the cgt,porsche have lost the plot,and evo award is worth about as much as a chocolate teapot.
Has the gt4 not got the same steering as the gt3,plenty of drivers the other weekend at silverstone on a cold damp track did not have much of a feel for a slippery track,and gripy track.
The gt4 is it for 2015,are you sure!
I have never had so much feel feedback as I did in my RS on a wet Silverstone the other week.....it gives so much confidence to press on......Plenty of spares about,cars still get used and most are maintained to a higher level than opc service jockys who cant even notice leaking dampers.
The last car porsche made with good feel and road feedback was the cgt,porsche have lost the plot,and evo award is worth about as much as a chocolate teapot.
Has the gt4 not got the same steering as the gt3,plenty of drivers the other weekend at silverstone on a cold damp track did not have much of a feel for a slippery track,and gripy track.
The gt4 is it for 2015,are you sure!
On a dry track its this feedback,that gives the confidence to press on and achieve much faster lap times....
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 6th November 08:12
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