Evo car of the year 2015 is...... SPOILER!

[Steve Rance]

I think that the point is how much has the game really moved on in terms of driver involvement as opposed to the accessibility of speed/pace as a singular objective.

[Yellow491]

Singer to slow
There are air cool that can be faster in differant venues

[denat]

Robbo66 said:

Steve Rance said:

Cars become more dull when they cease to rely on chassis feedback as a performance aid. The incremental move away from that phylosophy - in terms of GT cars - started with the 997GT3 via an active damping system which diluted a decent amount of chasis feedback. Now that has morphed to Electronic vectoring systems and rear wheel steering which provide a big leap forward in accessable performance to less skilled/experienced drivers at the expence of pure feedback.

One may of course argue that many drivers may not actually dial themselves into a car to notice or appreciate this feedback, but for those that can - and I believe/hope that this may stil be a very large number of potential buyers - I believe that the quest for ultimate performance at the cost of feedback and tactility is a retrograde phylosophy.

As we all find out on Monday / Tuesday thrashing around the evo triangle.

There's simply no comparison re a sorted early 911 against a modern 911 in any guise. I found the 991 GT3 exhilarating, but on these roads....way to big and cumbersome. The R will be the same. Huge.
The feedback from an early 911 is astonishing.

Edited by Robbo66 on Friday 30th October 14:10

I tend to agree. Spent the weekend in Normandy and tried the 991 GT3 RS extensively, having now completed the obligatory 1500 miles run in. First time i come back feeling that this car is almost too quick for the road. And i race a 991 cup car, so don't think i am worried about pushing the car close to its limits. As much fun as it was, i could not help but thinking that one of my early 911s would have been (almost) as quick on B and C roads. GT3 RS is very large and you feel it, but traction and grip are simply phenomenal. To the point where i started backing off because i was afraid of getting into a blind corner at full speed with a car coming from the other side. Never had that issue with one of the air cooled cars. Awesome piece of kit still.

[rosino]

I have to say it's a strange outcome. With the logic of too quick on the road I would have thought the MCL LT would have been even more OTT than the RS.

And as the GT3 won the last one coming ahead of the F12 you have to wonder if for them it didn't strike a better balance of fast-fun-grip than the ultra hardcore big-wheeled-winged RS.

I have to wonder though if the EVO team was not a little biased in NOT putting the RS forward for a win given all recent '3 winners...

i just had and drove a 991 GT3. But fail to see how much more exciting the GT4 would be for me.. Manual maybe aside, but with abnormally long gearing anyways.

And would you REALLY take a GT4 when you have an RS next to it for that special drive? I have to wonder..

[LaSource]

rosino said:

....

And would you REALLY take a GT4 when you have an RS next to it for that special drive? I have to wonder..

Just on that point, I wonder whether values are relevant here. IE if the journey had a threat of rain, driving through some muddy roads, involved a 200 mile trip, and you may be parking in a public car park with door ding risk - do you take the £100k car or the £300k car (but only if delivery miles)?

[Steve Rance]

rosino said:

I have to say it's a strange outcome. With the logic of too quick on the road I would have thought the MCL LT would have been even more OTT than the RS.

And as the GT3 won the last one coming ahead of the F12 you have to wonder if for them it didn't strike a better balance of fast-fun-grip than the ultra hardcore big-wheeled-winged RS.

I have to wonder though if the EVO team was not a little biased in NOT putting the RS forward for a win given all recent '3 winners...

i just had and drove a 991 GT3. But fail to see how much more exciting the GT4 would be for me.. Manual maybe aside, but with abnormally long gearing anyways.

And would you REALLY take a GT4 when you have an RS next to it for that special drive? I have to wonder..

This is interesting. Although you found the car exciting, did you find it involving?

[Robbo66]

Steve Rance said:

This is interesting. Although you found the car exciting, did you find it involving?

I found my 991 GT3 involving, but the 73 far more so, and on fast B roads there's nothing in it point to point.
The issue for me is the size, it was huge.
Not interested in a GT4 either, particularly having just stepped out of a GT3. I know a few owners who have taken the GT4, having previously owned the GT3 and all state they would take the 3 over it every time.

For me, the modern GT cars are track weapons....no more.

[Yellow491]

denat said:

Robbo66 said:

Steve Rance said:

Cars become more dull when they cease to rely on chassis feedback as a performance aid. The incremental move away from that phylosophy - in terms of GT cars - started with the 997GT3 via an active damping system which diluted a decent amount of chasis feedback. Now that has morphed to Electronic vectoring systems and rear wheel steering which provide a big leap forward in accessable performance to less skilled/experienced drivers at the expence of pure feedback.

One may of course argue that many drivers may not actually dial themselves into a car to notice or appreciate this feedback, but for those that can - and I believe/hope that this may stil be a very large number of potential buyers - I believe that the quest for ultimate performance at the cost of feedback and tactility is a retrograde phylosophy.

As we all find out on Monday / Tuesday thrashing around the evo triangle.

There's simply no comparison re a sorted early 911 against a modern 911 in any guise. I found the 991 GT3 exhilarating, but on these roads....way to big and cumbersome. The R will be the same. Huge.
The feedback from an early 911 is astonishing.

Edited by Robbo66 on Friday 30th October 14:10

I tend to agree. Spent the weekend in Normandy and tried the 991 GT3 RS extensively, having now completed the obligatory 1500 miles run in. First time i come back feeling that this car is almost too quick for the road. And i race a 991 cup car, so don't think i am worried about pushing the car close to its limits. As much fun as it was, i could not help but thinking that one of my early 911s would have been (almost) as quick on B and C roads. GT3 RS is very large and you feel it, but traction and grip are simply phenomenal. To the point where i started backing off because i was afraid of getting into a blind corner at full speed with a car coming from the other side. Never had that issue with one of the air cooled cars. Awesome piece of kit still.

Well what happened to my invite to the welsh triangle,is it because i live just over the border;)

You can have the problem in a early car also of something around the corner,especially blind corners with a early 911 braking effeciency and 320 bhp.

Value has nothing to do with it,i leave my gt3 rs in the garage most of the time and take my prefered choice out every time with 100% involvment and leave it Out all night in car parks every now and then,although i do admit of having a room where i can see my car.

[franki68]

rosino said:

I have to say it's a strange outcome. With the logic of too quick on the road I would have thought the MCL LT would have been even more OTT than the RS.

And as the GT3 won the last one coming ahead of the F12 you have to wonder if for them it didn't strike a better balance of fast-fun-grip than the ultra hardcore big-wheeled-winged RS.

I have to wonder though if the EVO team was not a little biased in NOT putting the RS forward for a win given all recent '3 winners...

i just had and drove a 991 GT3. But fail to see how much more exciting the GT4 would be for me.. Manual maybe aside, but with abnormally long gearing anyways.

And would you REALLY take a GT4 when you have an RS next to it for that special drive? I have to wonder..

Not driven the gt3rs but I found the gt3 a bit too much for the road.There is fine line between being excited and terror ,with such levels of performance on the road.
The gt4 is more exploitable in that sense .If you were going for a B road blast I suggest a gt4 would be a far more tempting proposition than a gt3rs,but for a track that would be reversed.

[PorscheGT4]

agree, a lot of these cars are so crap on UK roads now they are not fun at all, only for pose factor , I hope the GT4 is nothing like the GT3 for road use.

As for microswitch gear changing, well for a fun weekend car after a week at work, NO thank you.
And for a daily you may as well have a turbo of some sort.

thank goodness you can still buy a nice manual Porker, but for driving thrills and having a nice thing in the summer, the Spyder still wins in spades, it's just too annoying to use too much, but then at my age I don't want a Caterham or even an Elise for Sunday blasts so the Spyder fit's right in for me, it's like a big Elise.

[red997]

I would love a try in a GT4 - I found the gearing long in the demo S I borrowed a while ago; hope the GT4 doesn't suffer form this too much.

Had the chance over the weekend to drive my 991 GT3 on some decent roads up in the Lakes - my god it's good; too much for the road ?
maybe - early on Sunday morning on some B roads in the North Lakes, sun out, mist clearing, no other traffic - motoring Nirvana for me - compared to North London's ste condition roads and heavy traffic
one happy camper here...

[Lefty]

s2t said:

Lefty said:

Catchpole notable by his absence throughout the whole issue yet he remains on the contributor list. Has he quit?

No Henry was otherwise engaged at the time of ECOTY

Yeah I just read the behind the scenes bit!!!

[LordOfTheManor]

'RS' not making the ecoty, new 991.2 already out!, rumors of a RS manual!
I'm willing to take a chance on one... at list! if anyone's having second thoughts about their order!

[APOLO1]

Steve Rance said:

This is interesting. Although you found the car exciting, did you find it involving?

S, thought about your views on all this tech stuff now on the RS etc, have to say I agree with you, whist it allows a" Bille" to set times he could only dream about, its nice to have had to" work for your dinner" if you get my point..

When I 1st got in the GT4 it reminded me of my 64RS within 100yds

[lsb]

APOLO1 said:

S, thought about your views on all this tech stuff now on the RS etc, have to say I agree with you, whist it allows a" Bille" to set times he could only dream about, its nice to have had to" work for your dinner" if you get my point..

When I 1st got in the GT4 it reminded me of my 64RS within 100yds

I thought you called your new RS " the most exciting car I have ever owned" in your very first post about it.

[franki68]

lsb said:

I thought you called your new RS " the most exciting car I have ever owned" in your very first post about it.

I think he is talking about involvement in this instance ,not the same as excitement.

[lsb]

franki68 said:

I think he is talking about involvement in this instance ,not the same as excitement.

Surely inferring a car is very easy to drive very quickly on track by "a billie" would make it unlikely to be the most exciting car ever driven ? Exciting and easy normally have a small overlap.

[APOLO1]

franki68 said:

I think he is talking about involvement in this instance ,not the same as excitement.

correct, some one with say average skills, can put in times that are beyond their skill level....is this exciting... absolutely.....involving..?

Track day car, RS every time, can not see anything getting close. Sunday morning drive down the lanes to get the papers....73 Élan sprint....

Edited by APOLO1 on Wednesday 4th November 09:48

[9e 28]

APOLO1 said:

franki68 said:

I think he is talking about involvement in this instance ,not the same as excitement.

correct, some one with say average skills, can put in times that are beyond their skill level....is this exciting... absolutely.....involving..?

From past experience with mid engined Porsches I very much doubt a Cayman GT4 is a difficult car to get a decent lap time out of for an average driver but I could be wrong. My experience with the mid engined cars is that they have a chassis which can be chucked into a corner and the car remains very flat and composed with excellent turn in. This was before PASM so I can only imagine they're even more competent now. Can't see any similarity to a 964 RS apart from they're both manuals. Out of interest how do you find them similar? I'm surprised you even bothered with a GT4 knowing your car line up!

[lsb]

APOLO1 said:

correct, some one with say average skills, can put in times that are beyond their skill level....is this exciting... absolutely.....involving..?

Track day car, RS every time, can not see anything getting close. Sunday morning drive down the lanes to get the papers....73 Élan sprint....

Edited by APOLO1 on Wednesday 4th November 09:48

So where does the excitement on track come from ? Surely fun on track is the involvement with the car not just driving the quickest/easiest car to drive ?