Cayman GT4 Is it quick enough?
Discussion
People comparing gearing are forgetting to normalise the effective ratios for the different tire sizes.
For example. While the GT4 has shorter physical gear ratios than the 996 GT3, it loses this advantage due to the blinged up wheels.
The effective ratios on the cars when normalised are:
Caym GT4 - 11.92 , 7.03, 5.08, 4.07, 3.42, 2.92
996.2 GT3 - 13.14, 7.40, 5.37, 4.16, 3.44, 2.92
The GT4 does have long effective gear ratios. There is no getting away from that fact. Fitting a smaller rim and tire would be beneficial.
Interestingly, while the 991 GT3 also has a large rear wheel and tire package, the effective gearing from 2-6 when normalised is almost the same as that of a 996 GT3 when fitted with a 4.0 R&P. The 991 PDK box has the benefit of a 7th gear on top.
Porsche selected aggressive gearing on the 991 GT3 that maintained this aggression even with its wheel package. This was not the case with the GT4.
For example. While the GT4 has shorter physical gear ratios than the 996 GT3, it loses this advantage due to the blinged up wheels.
The effective ratios on the cars when normalised are:
Caym GT4 - 11.92 , 7.03, 5.08, 4.07, 3.42, 2.92
996.2 GT3 - 13.14, 7.40, 5.37, 4.16, 3.44, 2.92
The GT4 does have long effective gear ratios. There is no getting away from that fact. Fitting a smaller rim and tire would be beneficial.
Interestingly, while the 991 GT3 also has a large rear wheel and tire package, the effective gearing from 2-6 when normalised is almost the same as that of a 996 GT3 when fitted with a 4.0 R&P. The 991 PDK box has the benefit of a 7th gear on top.
Porsche selected aggressive gearing on the 991 GT3 that maintained this aggression even with its wheel package. This was not the case with the GT4.
Edited by fioran0 on Saturday 23 January 12:12
gtsralph said:
Mario149 said:
We need someone with a bit of a mental streak and deep pockets to buy a cat D GT4 when on eventually appears and stick a tuned 3.4 from ehresmann or similar in it along with a shorter final drive that lasts more than 100 miles. That would be very special.
My old 3.4L engine is at Jens' place so you can have it for a reasonable price. I'm looking now at 4.0L conversion of my 3.8L
ags11 said:
Without measuring anything, I'd imagine there's very little scope for smaller wheels given the disc size, especially for pccb cars!
18 Inch Wheel Conversion - Desirable for many track drivers, DeMan Racing have put together a package that will allow you to run an 18 inch wheel/tire combo. The front requires changing calipers (we use a 997.2 GT3RS caliper and brembo rotor) which is a direct bolt on along with a special offset Forgeline wheel. In the rear, a special offset wheel is required from Forgeline. The tie rod may have fitment issues depending on the width wheel and may require a motorsport heim joint.DMC2 said:
The GT4 is waaaaaaaaay underpowered for the chassis and balance the car has. Shame it is so pinned back because of the 911 hierarchy.
+1 Seems Porsche have followed a 928 ethos with the GT4. They left so much untapped potential it's ridiculous. On the plus side I would imagine engine reliability on the GT4 could be similar to the 928, which for real world motoring is never a bad thing
I'm not sure the GT4 Is underpowered as such although I do agree they could have maybe made it a little quicker maybe by adjusting the gearing but of course this has been discussed to death.
The car is about fun rather than balls out turbo power and it was never going to rival the 911. It's a drivers car with a manual box for good reason .
I've now covered 1500 miles in my car and have more likes than dislikes but I must admit the GT4 lacks some real characteristics I enjoyed with the 997 GT3. The mezger is a special engine no question, the steering does have a wonderful feel and a beautiful weight to it. The noise of the engine in the 997 is better than the 996 IMO as is the gearbox with its rifle bolt precision. Then there's the looks that are better than the 996, again IMO, and of course the updated interior .
The GT4 I think looks great, finally a really grown up Cayman and deserving of GT badge. The interior with the 918 buckets is beautiful and surprisingly comfortable ( more so than the 997 buckets ) and the PCM 3 is a revelation compared to the 997 version that only took the first 4 digits of a postcode .
The noise of the GT4 is great too but yet not too noisy in the cabin and that engine just 'Zings' along as opposed to howls like the 997 but I guess that's preference.
I also think with the GT4 most inexperienced track day drivers will prefer it's more predictable handing and adjustment will be easier with the ARB settings . My intention is to try and dial out the current mild under steerer the car has but without going for an expensive Full Geo . The steering does feel very light compared to the 997 but I'm hoping small adjustment may add to the feel and then I'll not miss the 997's 'weight' but I'll reserve full judgment on this till I've been on track a few times.
Both cars IMO are superb but the 997 will stand the test of time better than the Cayman I think with a stronger following . For now I'm really enjoying the new car experience and no regrets selling the 997 with future thoughts on a 991 GT3 if I get allocation with the gen 2 car.
Also I'll not be shy of adding mileage or using it on track. Enjoy
The car is about fun rather than balls out turbo power and it was never going to rival the 911. It's a drivers car with a manual box for good reason .
I've now covered 1500 miles in my car and have more likes than dislikes but I must admit the GT4 lacks some real characteristics I enjoyed with the 997 GT3. The mezger is a special engine no question, the steering does have a wonderful feel and a beautiful weight to it. The noise of the engine in the 997 is better than the 996 IMO as is the gearbox with its rifle bolt precision. Then there's the looks that are better than the 996, again IMO, and of course the updated interior .
The GT4 I think looks great, finally a really grown up Cayman and deserving of GT badge. The interior with the 918 buckets is beautiful and surprisingly comfortable ( more so than the 997 buckets ) and the PCM 3 is a revelation compared to the 997 version that only took the first 4 digits of a postcode .
The noise of the GT4 is great too but yet not too noisy in the cabin and that engine just 'Zings' along as opposed to howls like the 997 but I guess that's preference.
I also think with the GT4 most inexperienced track day drivers will prefer it's more predictable handing and adjustment will be easier with the ARB settings . My intention is to try and dial out the current mild under steerer the car has but without going for an expensive Full Geo . The steering does feel very light compared to the 997 but I'm hoping small adjustment may add to the feel and then I'll not miss the 997's 'weight' but I'll reserve full judgment on this till I've been on track a few times.
Both cars IMO are superb but the 997 will stand the test of time better than the Cayman I think with a stronger following . For now I'm really enjoying the new car experience and no regrets selling the 997 with future thoughts on a 991 GT3 if I get allocation with the gen 2 car.
Also I'll not be shy of adding mileage or using it on track. Enjoy
Edited by Scooty100 on Sunday 24th January 17:21
I have just driven another 100 km on the quiet hill roads in southern Portugal. On these type of roads the car certainly does not feel slow, even allowing for the fact that I am using only 4.5k revs and using second,third and fourth gears. These type of roads suit the car perfectly imo.
The performance that this car will offer on these type of roads when the full 7.8k revs can be used will be remarkable when considering the price.
In my opinion the car is being compared to the the wrong type of cars. To me it feels like a grown up Lotus and that is meant as a compliment. It is feel some,alive and hides it weight very well. It is not underpowered although I am sure it could handle another 70-80 bhp without problem.
Why would Porsche make it as fast as a 991 GT3 for 55% of the cost ? I think a few on here expect too much from it.
The performance that this car will offer on these type of roads when the full 7.8k revs can be used will be remarkable when considering the price.
In my opinion the car is being compared to the the wrong type of cars. To me it feels like a grown up Lotus and that is meant as a compliment. It is feel some,alive and hides it weight very well. It is not underpowered although I am sure it could handle another 70-80 bhp without problem.
Why would Porsche make it as fast as a 991 GT3 for 55% of the cost ? I think a few on here expect too much from it.
mollytherocker said:
Reading this thread shows how different people define 'fast' or 'quick'.
Lap time?
Top speed?
Quarter mile?
Sensation of acceleration at certain revs?
Low down torque?
High rev rush?
What are we talking about?
Been pondering this question for a day or two. For me I always get a tinge of disappointment in third gear towards the top of the rev range. It starts to feel a bit slow! Analyse that a bit more and the flat torque curve and the lack of extra high rev zing to the motor all contribute. I would happily trade a bit of bottom end torque for a more rev hungry top end even if that meant it was slower low down.Lap time?
Top speed?
Quarter mile?
Sensation of acceleration at certain revs?
Low down torque?
High rev rush?
What are we talking about?
Not had chance to track it yet but when I do I expect that on fast open circuits the closely stacked higher gears and lovely handling will make it a peach. Bet it feels mighty slow up the Kemmel straight though
I am splitting hairs here though. It's a lovely lovely car and judged to perfection for its market position. It could be just a tiny bit better. Roll on the RS ( or a bit of light tuning!)
bigmowley said:
I would happily trade a bit of bottom end torque for a more rev hungry top end even if that meant it was slower low down.
That's exactly what I prefer. I want to have to rev a car to get to the performance. I think we are all used to easy mid range torque, typified by the modern turbo diesel, that we just expect POWER at all revs. Ultimately though, that's just not satisfying for me.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff