BBC Panorama - Gangs, Guns and the Police
Discussion
Did anyone watch this tonight?
The synopsis is that if you, your family or anyone you knew were unfortunate to be murdered by certain members within groups within Manchester then the murder would go unsolved. How the hell is this allowed to happen, why have these gangs got the run on the city, it certainly didn't look like the police had a clue how to stop the shootings. The most disturbing story was of a guy looking to shoot a rival gang member. He went to the house of the target who wasn't there so shot his wife and 7 year old son who was there, this was 7 months ago and no arrests, disgusting.
The synopsis is that if you, your family or anyone you knew were unfortunate to be murdered by certain members within groups within Manchester then the murder would go unsolved. How the hell is this allowed to happen, why have these gangs got the run on the city, it certainly didn't look like the police had a clue how to stop the shootings. The most disturbing story was of a guy looking to shoot a rival gang member. He went to the house of the target who wasn't there so shot his wife and 7 year old son who was there, this was 7 months ago and no arrests, disgusting.
Trouble is the police have little to no power to protect anyone who talks, and too often there is a bad apple who can tell the gang exactly who grassed. You have to be very careful not to grass in areas like that, as if the cops catch one shooter, it just leaves tens of others to take his place and exact vengeance.
Part of the blame for anyone getting shot by mistake lies with the father who clearly got involved wi gangs to whom life is worth jacks...t
Part of the blame for anyone getting shot by mistake lies with the father who clearly got involved wi gangs to whom life is worth jacks...t
TooMany2cvs said:
It's that whole sorry saga about juries and needing to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. So inconvenient...
Why shouldn't the police just be able to say "We think you did it, so you're going daaaaahn", anyway?
Like this force did with Anthony Grainger? Don't think they have the stomach for doing that particular stunt again Why shouldn't the police just be able to say "We think you did it, so you're going daaaaahn", anyway?
; that one plus certain other 'revelations' around firearms training, red mist and loss of sight of the metaphorical ball soon after didn't reflect well on them 
.GMP's murder detection rate is in line with the national picture i.e. nearly all murders are detected, roughly around 95 out of 100. Some years a little lower, some years a little higher.
Compare this to US cities which have real gang issues and their detection rates vary from 60-80%
Compare this to US cities which have real gang issues and their detection rates vary from 60-80%
bigandclever said:
I didn't see the programme, but I'm sure it wasn't that long ago when there was basically a shooting every other day in Gunchester. Maybe 10 years ago?
120 confirmed discharges in 2006. knitware said:
Did anyone watch this tonight?
The synopsis is that if you, your family or anyone you knew were unfortunate to be murdered by certain members within groups within Manchester then the murder would go unsolved. How the hell is this allowed to happen, why have these gangs got the run on the city, it certainly didn't look like the police had a clue how to stop the shootings. The most disturbing story was of a guy looking to shoot a rival gang member. He went to the house of the target who wasn't there so shot his wife and 7 year old son who was there, this was 7 months ago and no arrests, disgusting.
Yes it is disgusting but we should direct our anger at the gangsters not the police.The synopsis is that if you, your family or anyone you knew were unfortunate to be murdered by certain members within groups within Manchester then the murder would go unsolved. How the hell is this allowed to happen, why have these gangs got the run on the city, it certainly didn't look like the police had a clue how to stop the shootings. The most disturbing story was of a guy looking to shoot a rival gang member. He went to the house of the target who wasn't there so shot his wife and 7 year old son who was there, this was 7 months ago and no arrests, disgusting.
There is no forensic evidence, no CCTV and no witnesses willing to testify.
Just WHAT exactly are the police to do? Call Eileen Drewery?
When the Krays died there were 2000 people behind each coffin. Some people actually prefer things this way. I have never understood it and never will. Innocents get killed in the crossfire and communities clam up in fear of reprisals.
It is beyond disgusting. It is inhuman but in some places that is how things are and will remain until ordinary people decide that it is going to change.
jesusbuiltmycar said:
ikarl said:
EVERYONE is scared it seems,...to be fair, if someone walked into a busy pub I was in and shot someone in the chest, then stamped on their head numerous times, I reckon I'd be scared too.
This...and if questioned by police, I'd have been in the toilet while it happened...
It's no laughing matter but you can imagine the police compiling their report and placing everyone at the scene; total 48 people on the premises, 4 outside round the back smoking didn't see or hear anything, all 4 staff were 'changing a barrel' and the other 40 people were in the toilet.
I really don't know what the police can be expected to do.
PorkInsider said:
It's no laughing matter but you can imagine the police compiling their report and placing everyone at the scene; total 48 people on the premises, 4 outside round the back smoking didn't see or hear anything, all 4 staff were 'changing a barrel' and the other 40 people were in the toilet.
Reminds me when I was a retail manager many moons ago. One of our local shops, in a slightly more 'interesting' area had the contents of the backstore freezers knocked off. Busy shop and following interviews, none of the staff apparently saw a thing. Once the CCTV footage was watched, the local villain could be seen to walk in, let himself through the back and open up the loading bay. Then reverse a van in, and unload the freezers. All in all, he was there for fifteen minutes, robbing the lot. Thing was, every member of staff had walked past at some point, and said nowt. At the end of the day, no minimum wage job was worth grassing the local hard man up for. Would I have done the same? Damn right...
offshorematt2 said:
Reminds me when I was a retail manager many moons ago. One of our local shops, in a slightly more 'interesting' area had the contents of the backstore freezers knocked off. Busy shop and following interviews, none of the staff apparently saw a thing. Once the CCTV footage was watched, the local villain could be seen to walk in, let himself through the back and open up the loading bay. Then reverse a van in, and unload the freezers. All in all, he was there for fifteen minutes, robbing the lot. Thing was, every member of staff had walked past at some point, and said nowt.
At the end of the day, no minimum wage job was worth grassing the local hard man up for. Would I have done the same? Damn right...
Out of curiosity did any comeback occur towards the staff? In my experience retail managers normally expect the earth for £6.70 an hour At the end of the day, no minimum wage job was worth grassing the local hard man up for. Would I have done the same? Damn right...
.People in poor areas are treated so badly by society, and see little opportunity to improve their lot, so they do get overtaken by the thought that the gangsters, while bad people, are 'breaking the mould' and making money. It seems that while drugs are bad, they accept that their youth will be tolerant, maybe participants in the drug scene due to the local environment, so selling drugs is seen as a necessary thing, not necessarily evil. The community decides to pick their local 'heroes' over law and the rest of society as they feel ostracised themselves.
The difference however with the krays (and to a much more obvious extent, the Italian and US mafia) is that aside from those involved directly, they did keep the local community relatively safe for the average joe. The financial impact of their scams were ignored (such as increased prices due to hijack/unions/etc), and hence tolerance was, and continues to be, high
The difference however with the krays (and to a much more obvious extent, the Italian and US mafia) is that aside from those involved directly, they did keep the local community relatively safe for the average joe. The financial impact of their scams were ignored (such as increased prices due to hijack/unions/etc), and hence tolerance was, and continues to be, high
La Liga said:
bigandclever said:
I didn't see the programme, but I'm sure it wasn't that long ago when there was basically a shooting every other day in Gunchester. Maybe 10 years ago?
120 confirmed discharges in 2006. Swervin_Mervin said:
La Liga said:
bigandclever said:
I didn't see the programme, but I'm sure it wasn't that long ago when there was basically a shooting every other day in Gunchester. Maybe 10 years ago?
120 confirmed discharges in 2006. MEN said:
Back in 2007/08, gun crime in Greater Manchester was running at an average of more than three incidents a day - there were 1,160 incidents in total that year, with 146 shootings alone.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gun-crime-across-greater-manchester-8645432The way you're all talking is like it's the Wild West here. It's not. Gun crime is largely restricted to criminal gangs shooting each other. I can't think of a single incident where the public (excluding family members of the criminal) have been involved. More often than not the victim turns out to be a scumbag once the facts are known.
In fact the Dale Creegan shootings were the last ones to worry the public and most of those were criminal gang garbage, it was only because he was using hand hrenades that it was so public and again after he shot those two police officers.
In fact the Dale Creegan shootings were the last ones to worry the public and most of those were criminal gang garbage, it was only because he was using hand hrenades that it was so public and again after he shot those two police officers.
bigandclever said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
La Liga said:
bigandclever said:
I didn't see the programme, but I'm sure it wasn't that long ago when there was basically a shooting every other day in Gunchester. Maybe 10 years ago?
120 confirmed discharges in 2006. MEN said:
Back in 2007/08, gun crime in Greater Manchester was running at an average of more than three incidents a day - there were 1,160 incidents in total that year, with 146 shootings alone.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gun-crime-across-greater-manchester-8645432I wasn't contradicting you with my original post, you weren't too far off with 120, 10 years ago, for something you were recalling off the top of your head.
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