Why are 996's so cheap ?
Discussion
Given that a decent late 3.2 Carrera is at least £14k, and a decent 993 is £25K or over, why can I find plenty of RHD 996's from about £25K up ? I've had a couple of good 3.2's, and to be honest I don't think a 993 is worth the extra money (almost the same interior, similar performance etc). I know a 996 is a different thing, but surely they should command more than 993's ? Am I missing something ? Please advise, my wife is now convinced that a 996 is the way to go, but I'm nervous about possible costs.
There are loads of 996s around, supply outstrips demand, the 993 is thinner on the ground and more sought after hence the prices........there are not many "NICE" 3.2s around and they attract premium prices, 20K is not uncommon for a late low mileage and owner 3.2 coupe.
There is nothing wrong with a 996, however if risidual value is important a 993 might be the car for you..........just make sure you buy right in the first instance.
Matt
It'd be worth the effort of searching the forum for discussion of the relative merits of 993/996 models. The former the more raw, purist's porker experience, carefully built, bullet proof and last of the aircooled flat sixes. The latter comparatively mass-produced, improved ergonomics, more modern car all round.
Apart from the number of them about bringing prices down, the 996s (other than the turbos and GTs) can suffer from potentially expensive engine issues that would make me wary about owning one outside of the Porsche warranty system. See this recent thread for more info.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=154369&f=48&h=0
Apart from all that, I think that 993s look nicer but I'm biased and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Best of luck.
Apart from the number of them about bringing prices down, the 996s (other than the turbos and GTs) can suffer from potentially expensive engine issues that would make me wary about owning one outside of the Porsche warranty system. See this recent thread for more info.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=154369&f=48&h=0
Apart from all that, I think that 993s look nicer but I'm biased and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Best of luck.
Lovely cars though the 3.2's and earlier are ( and I'm working on a 75 2.7 at the moment ) it would be fair to say that the 993 is in a different league to the 3.2.
The 993 is holding on because it is a great car. Much better to drive than older 911's , while also feeling more special than early 996's.
They are also much rarer than 996's.
The 996 is objectively a better car, but it feels much more like a regular car. A BMW or Audi driver could just jump in and feel at home.
The 993 is not like that, and for me is the ideal compromise between older and interesting and new and modern.
IMO
The 993 is holding on because it is a great car. Much better to drive than older 911's , while also feeling more special than early 996's.
They are also much rarer than 996's.
The 996 is objectively a better car, but it feels much more like a regular car. A BMW or Audi driver could just jump in and feel at home.
The 993 is not like that, and for me is the ideal compromise between older and interesting and new and modern.
IMO
I can deal with the fact that a 993 is more "pure" (having owned 2 3.2's)- I suppose I need to adjust my question really. I think what I'd really like to know is this : If I buy a '98 996 for about £25K, is it likely to go "bang" in a big way, and if I sell it in a year or two is it going to be worth £10K less at that time ? Difficult questions I know, but this is surely the place to ask....If the answer is that a 996 is a bad move whatever, then I will be looking for a late 3.2 instead I think.
Patrick Rennison said:
I can deal with the fact that a 993 is more "pure" (having owned 2 3.2's)- I suppose I need to adjust my question really. I think what I'd really like to know is this : If I buy a '98 996 for about £25K, is it likely to go "bang" in a big way, and if I sell it in a year or two is it going to be worth £10K less at that time ? Difficult questions I know, but this is surely the place to ask....If the answer is that a 996 is a bad move whatever, then I will be looking for a late 3.2 instead I think.
I hear what you are saying.
I worry that early 996's might become a bit of a problem. They still need money to keep at their best, and because there are a lot of them around I am concerned that many will decay and become poorly maintained. Before you know it they might end up like old Beemers and Mercs, used and abused by some people who don't understand them. I hope this does'nt happen, but if it does their values could suffer IMO because there are a lot of them around.
Why not a 993? £25k on a 993 would get you pretty much the perfect 911 as far as many are concerned !
I've had a 996 C4 and a 993 C2.
I don't miss the 996. But I really miss the 993. Later in the year, I'll probably get another.
Meantime, I'm getting a broken early 2.7 on the road...
I'm sure that 996's will always be worth (£5K+?) more than Boxsters - as they're better cars. When the 3.2, 964, 993 were first sold they had no direct Porsche equivalent in the 944 & 928. But Boxsters compete with fashionable cars such as the TT, SLK & Z3&4 and this might influence the Boxster's future price perhaps. I suppose 996 desirability depends on potential buyers - including die-hard 911 fans - valuing the 996 significantly more than the Boxster
>> Edited by marx on Sunday 20th February 19:49
>> Edited by marx on Sunday 20th February 19:54
>> Edited by marx on Sunday 20th February 19:49
>> Edited by marx on Sunday 20th February 19:54
Hi Patrick, just a few comments. Being old , I have owned and driven a 356B S90 , a 993C2 , a 964RS , and a 996. All of them except the 964RS were daily drivers , total Porsche miles to date exceeds 200,000.
Money 'wasted' /'invested' (depending on whether the wife was asked) exceeds 130,000 , still got the 964RS and the 996 so could get some of this back
. None of these cars were bought new, so the depreciation could have been worse. So if its a Porsche that you want to buy then it is not an investment, it will cost you , and you might as well get what you fancy.
If you get yet another 3.2 Carrera thats groundhog day.
If you get a 993 then yes you pay more than seems logical but on the other hand you should by same token be able to sell on for not much less because of supply/demand.
If you want a bargain and a different experience ( eg a bit of comfort and wife friendly driveability ) get a 996. A 1998 car will drop maybe 5k/year year 1 , so its BMW/ Merc territory. They are not going to drop that amount year on year. Buy private and sell private....oh yeah drive one first. Once I found it was quicker, better turning circle , perfect climate control , longer service intervals , quieter etc etc there was no going back to the 993 it replaced.
Money 'wasted' /'invested' (depending on whether the wife was asked) exceeds 130,000 , still got the 964RS and the 996 so could get some of this back
. None of these cars were bought new, so the depreciation could have been worse. So if its a Porsche that you want to buy then it is not an investment, it will cost you , and you might as well get what you fancy. If you get yet another 3.2 Carrera thats groundhog day.
If you get a 993 then yes you pay more than seems logical but on the other hand you should by same token be able to sell on for not much less because of supply/demand.
If you want a bargain and a different experience ( eg a bit of comfort and wife friendly driveability ) get a 996. A 1998 car will drop maybe 5k/year year 1 , so its BMW/ Merc territory. They are not going to drop that amount year on year. Buy private and sell private....oh yeah drive one first. Once I found it was quicker, better turning circle , perfect climate control , longer service intervals , quieter etc etc there was no going back to the 993 it replaced.
A lot of 98/99 996's will have had their engines replaced because of a manufacturing problem on the originals. If it has been replaced then you should be OK, if it hasn't then beware! The good news with these cars is that there are loads of independant specialists who will service them for no more than a standard modern mass market car. OK, things may go wrong and costs could be horrific but again, the independants keep those costs right down.
I don't think there's any doubt that the 996's are dropping and that the 993's are holding/going up but they are two very different cars. I wanted a 993 because, to me, it was the perfect 911 but the romance went when i drove one on normal roads as if it was my daily commute, for that the 996 wins hands down (in my opinion - others of course will think differently).
I will hopefully be buying my 996 next week, knowing that it will drop in value, but I can't honestly think that a '98 996 with 50 odd k in nice condition would drop more than 10k over the next 3 yrs. Let's face it, you could buy a £25 Mondeo and it would lose 10 grand in a month!
I don't think there's any doubt that the 996's are dropping and that the 993's are holding/going up but they are two very different cars. I wanted a 993 because, to me, it was the perfect 911 but the romance went when i drove one on normal roads as if it was my daily commute, for that the 996 wins hands down (in my opinion - others of course will think differently).
I will hopefully be buying my 996 next week, knowing that it will drop in value, but I can't honestly think that a '98 996 with 50 odd k in nice condition would drop more than 10k over the next 3 yrs. Let's face it, you could buy a £25 Mondeo and it would lose 10 grand in a month!
The first reason is the larger number of 996's in circulation
The lower end of the 996 price range reflects their poor condition. I looked at a few 996's and they may have been cheap, but they were also very tatty. The high price ones were in miles better nick. You can get cheap 996's but all the ones I looked at in the lower price range were full of minor dents, scratches and were generally ropey with loads of miles on the clock.
The lower end of the 996 price range reflects their poor condition. I looked at a few 996's and they may have been cheap, but they were also very tatty. The high price ones were in miles better nick. You can get cheap 996's but all the ones I looked at in the lower price range were full of minor dents, scratches and were generally ropey with loads of miles on the clock.
Like you I am a huge fan of the Carrera 3.2's...I went from a 3.2 CS to a new 996 C2....within 10 mins of owning the C2 I knew it wasn't a keeper...I am now back in a 993. Money / value aside you should try a 996, they really are a larger car more like a Gt car to the 3.2's sportscar and see if it works for you.
The rear suspension, brakes (abs) and build quality are the major benefits of a 993 over a 3.2 to me.
The rear suspension, brakes (abs) and build quality are the major benefits of a 993 over a 3.2 to me.
The comment re 996s on company car lists...so were 964s and 993s...and a number of 3.2s as well...several of my 911s were company cars in their early years - nothing wrong with that.
The 996 is not a bad car - I don't own one, and am very happy to see the prices keep dropping - the car will drop into the "everyday runner" category and thus will be a very logical choice for me to buy for this purpose.
The inevitable result of cheap 996s is that they will drag down the price of the equivalent year models in better condition. This sets a ceiling price for the car full stop, regardless of condition and mileage. The trick is to avoid the dogs and find a nice car that an optimistic owner has been trying to sell at an inflated price for some time.
This process happened with the 3.2 - In the early '90s, when people started getting out of their 964s and back into 3.2s (sound familiar???) the last of the 3.2s were commanding £20k plus. This price fluctuated in the '90s as cheap dogs and unpopular coloured cars (Guards Red or GPW anyone?) cars affected the market, but as Matt says, they are now back up to this level. I don't think the 996 will follow the same theme - the 997 seems to be a better car and a potential "classic" in the making.
The Boxster is indeed in a different segment to a certain extent. I for one wouldn't compare Boxsters versus 996s - you either want one or the other and I don't think the prices of the two can be linked.
All IMHO of course :-)
The 996 is not a bad car - I don't own one, and am very happy to see the prices keep dropping - the car will drop into the "everyday runner" category and thus will be a very logical choice for me to buy for this purpose.
The inevitable result of cheap 996s is that they will drag down the price of the equivalent year models in better condition. This sets a ceiling price for the car full stop, regardless of condition and mileage. The trick is to avoid the dogs and find a nice car that an optimistic owner has been trying to sell at an inflated price for some time.
This process happened with the 3.2 - In the early '90s, when people started getting out of their 964s and back into 3.2s (sound familiar???) the last of the 3.2s were commanding £20k plus. This price fluctuated in the '90s as cheap dogs and unpopular coloured cars (Guards Red or GPW anyone?) cars affected the market, but as Matt says, they are now back up to this level. I don't think the 996 will follow the same theme - the 997 seems to be a better car and a potential "classic" in the making.
The Boxster is indeed in a different segment to a certain extent. I for one wouldn't compare Boxsters versus 996s - you either want one or the other and I don't think the prices of the two can be linked.
All IMHO of course :-)
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