This is starting to make a bit of sense
Discussion
A quick update. Took the car to Silverstone yesterday and had a good days running. Some info for you guys considering to run a cup car at track days;. the start procedure is pretty straight forward - so no lap top etc required.Warm up procedure straightforward. An air bottle would be ideal but a jack under the rear of the car so that the rear wheels can be freed up to warm the box would work fine. So, just start the car up and select the motec warm up page. Lift the car on its air jacks or the rear with a jack and gently run the gearbox in first ger for a while to warm everything up. Run the box through its gears gently and when warm select the race page on the motec screen and you are ready to run.
The big revelation to me was that tyres that I'd never consider running in competition were actually better than fresh rubber. I ran some VERY old michellins for most of the day and the car felt quite nice because I wasn't pushing that extra tenth which meant that it wasn't too loose and closing speeds were I think manageable for everyone. When I fitted the pirellis for scrubbing, the car gained 2 or 3 seconds of pace and I felt that was then probably too fast for an open track day. Very high closing speeds. This mean that the big radicals and Ferrari challenge cars that I have been circulating with all day became relatively easy to pass and to me that is too quick to an open track day.
So, the good news is that a decent supply of second hand tyres should keep things safer for everybody and make running the car a whole lot cheaper. A few things to check before the next day - brake bias not working correctly and I want the auto blip removed, burned, crushed, fragmatised and buried at least 20 feet underground. It just gets in the way like an unwanted sibling on a big date.
The big revelation to me was that tyres that I'd never consider running in competition were actually better than fresh rubber. I ran some VERY old michellins for most of the day and the car felt quite nice because I wasn't pushing that extra tenth which meant that it wasn't too loose and closing speeds were I think manageable for everyone. When I fitted the pirellis for scrubbing, the car gained 2 or 3 seconds of pace and I felt that was then probably too fast for an open track day. Very high closing speeds. This mean that the big radicals and Ferrari challenge cars that I have been circulating with all day became relatively easy to pass and to me that is too quick to an open track day.
So, the good news is that a decent supply of second hand tyres should keep things safer for everybody and make running the car a whole lot cheaper. A few things to check before the next day - brake bias not working correctly and I want the auto blip removed, burned, crushed, fragmatised and buried at least 20 feet underground. It just gets in the way like an unwanted sibling on a big date.
Go and buy another one before they get to silly money. I heard of a 996 cup owner who has just been offered £100k for his car. The 996's are definitely on the rise. The 997 is a stupid performance bargain right now. In terms of pace and fun, nothing matches it for value - radicals yes, but there is no substitute for driving a big, fast GT car - especially if it's a 911
I've mentioned this a few times now, so glad someone did so formally!
The downside is of course the romanticism about opening up the garage and taking a car out for a Sunday drive. Can't do that with a race car...
I'd also say this option is really for Porsche nuts only, as personally i think a 997 Cup car is overkill for trackdays and not enjoyable as a result. In reality, as someone who has raced i'm surprised you don't come away disappointed. I would at least do test days and race against the datalogging.
When i did the Britcar/GT Cup stuff in the Elise i found 996 Cups held me up but 997s were another league. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be sharing a track with road cars.
So, for me, i would never spend £300k on some special road car Porsche because i'd rather spend the money doing the real thing - going racing. Racing a Fiesta would still be more fun than a trackday in a GT3 RS.
The reality is i've seen on too many occasions on these 'posh' trackdays where owners of exotics will do a few laps and then happily sit around chatting for the rest of the day. For many, it's more about owning the car than driving it.
The downside is of course the romanticism about opening up the garage and taking a car out for a Sunday drive. Can't do that with a race car...
I'd also say this option is really for Porsche nuts only, as personally i think a 997 Cup car is overkill for trackdays and not enjoyable as a result. In reality, as someone who has raced i'm surprised you don't come away disappointed. I would at least do test days and race against the datalogging.
When i did the Britcar/GT Cup stuff in the Elise i found 996 Cups held me up but 997s were another league. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be sharing a track with road cars.
So, for me, i would never spend £300k on some special road car Porsche because i'd rather spend the money doing the real thing - going racing. Racing a Fiesta would still be more fun than a trackday in a GT3 RS.
The reality is i've seen on too many occasions on these 'posh' trackdays where owners of exotics will do a few laps and then happily sit around chatting for the rest of the day. For many, it's more about owning the car than driving it.
I get that. You do need to be pretty experinced to get in one and drive it properly. Also be prepared to deal with traffic - you will rarely get a claer lap and the closing speeds are massive. There were some Exige cups at Silverstone and the 997 was a lot quicker.
The costa of running a Cup for track day or race are hugely different. It's the same car that I raced in Carrea cup - but i dont need 4 sets of tyres for the day, race team, and everything replced or rebuilt on the can when it gets to lifing. You can short shift at a track day and save engine life and nurse the box etc. Loadsings on all components are so much lower. Running with second hand tyres make it cheaper than running a normal road going GT3. Same car, almost the same pace but at a small fraction of the cost to run.
The race thing for me is not that much fun anymore, i've won all i need to win so there's only one way to go - and that's down!. Still enjoy driving purely for fun so for me it works. My cup car is worth less than my 964C2. I know which one i'd rather risk and drive on a race track. You make a good point on the race thing though, if anyone is looking at buying a cup car for a track day, you must bear in mind the cost difference between running at a track day and running at a race meeting
The costa of running a Cup for track day or race are hugely different. It's the same car that I raced in Carrea cup - but i dont need 4 sets of tyres for the day, race team, and everything replced or rebuilt on the can when it gets to lifing. You can short shift at a track day and save engine life and nurse the box etc. Loadsings on all components are so much lower. Running with second hand tyres make it cheaper than running a normal road going GT3. Same car, almost the same pace but at a small fraction of the cost to run.
The race thing for me is not that much fun anymore, i've won all i need to win so there's only one way to go - and that's down!. Still enjoy driving purely for fun so for me it works. My cup car is worth less than my 964C2. I know which one i'd rather risk and drive on a race track. You make a good point on the race thing though, if anyone is looking at buying a cup car for a track day, you must bear in mind the cost difference between running at a track day and running at a race meeting
Edited by Steve Rance on Wednesday 20th April 10:34
Yes, I think that used slicks from a good source is the way to go.
For the chaps that may be looking to go this route there is one main issue to bear in mind. Like all racing cars - certainly the ones that I have driven - the Cup is absolutely horrible until you are travelling fast enough to lean on the chassis, tyres and brakes to make everything start to work. Below say 7/10's the car is just horrible, sending all sorts of error messages to the brain - sometimes conflicting 'a damper must be broken, I've got a puncture, a wheel has fallen off' etc.. However, once you pass through the dead zone and the car starts to load up it transforms its character into something truly amazing. One of the joys of the car is that short shifting to say 7500 rpm barely dulls the experience. There is enough power there to have serious fun. But what you must do, be able to do is to have the ability to drive to threshold to enjoy and appreciate a cup car.
If you have the ability to lean on the chassis, correct and keep in front of the car (mentally) then this may well be the perfect track car for you - providing you don't mind trailering. If you don't have those skills,then I would urge you to embark upon a driver training program with a known 911 specialist and ask his or her opinion as to when you are ready to graduate. The Cup car is nothing like as user friendly as a road going GT3 - not even a sharp track focused car. They have a Latin temperament and are quite unforgiving.
For the chaps that may be looking to go this route there is one main issue to bear in mind. Like all racing cars - certainly the ones that I have driven - the Cup is absolutely horrible until you are travelling fast enough to lean on the chassis, tyres and brakes to make everything start to work. Below say 7/10's the car is just horrible, sending all sorts of error messages to the brain - sometimes conflicting 'a damper must be broken, I've got a puncture, a wheel has fallen off' etc.. However, once you pass through the dead zone and the car starts to load up it transforms its character into something truly amazing. One of the joys of the car is that short shifting to say 7500 rpm barely dulls the experience. There is enough power there to have serious fun. But what you must do, be able to do is to have the ability to drive to threshold to enjoy and appreciate a cup car.
If you have the ability to lean on the chassis, correct and keep in front of the car (mentally) then this may well be the perfect track car for you - providing you don't mind trailering. If you don't have those skills,then I would urge you to embark upon a driver training program with a known 911 specialist and ask his or her opinion as to when you are ready to graduate. The Cup car is nothing like as user friendly as a road going GT3 - not even a sharp track focused car. They have a Latin temperament and are quite unforgiving.
Took the Cup car to Brands Hatch on a 101DB day. Fitted a 101DB system and subsiquently failed the noise test at 104DB - as did around half of the other attendees. These included mainly cars with standard exhaust systems such as 996Turbo's, some BMW 3 series road cars etc.. Almost all of the race cars were thrown off. So a word of warning to the GT car owners amongst you - it is unlikely that you will now get on to a Brands Track day as the noise threashold is now even lower than before (drive by 92db. As frustrating for MSV no doubt as it is for everyone else.
Anyway, We managed to get on in the end and through short shifting not get thrown off by breaching the drive by noise meters. It actually snowed during the lunch break and consiquently when the very wet circuit was re-opened there was a general reluctance to go out so we took advantage and got the wet brake bias settings sorted out.
To set your wet bias, move towards the rear until they lock and then wind forward 2 clicks. This prevents the fronts from locking giving you steering all the time up to and beyond threashold. For race I would sometimes look to disconnect the anti roll bars but in a track day situation, just sort your bias out and throw on some wets. A word of warning, make sure that you know which way the bias winds from front to rear. Some are clockwise and some are ant clockwise. I have driven cars with front bias as clockwise and some with rearward clockwise.
Heres some in car from the first few exploritory laps. The short shifting is explined above although I would still be short shifting at several points in those conditions anyway.
https://youtu.be/Mz1BB-NfRu0
Anyway, We managed to get on in the end and through short shifting not get thrown off by breaching the drive by noise meters. It actually snowed during the lunch break and consiquently when the very wet circuit was re-opened there was a general reluctance to go out so we took advantage and got the wet brake bias settings sorted out.
To set your wet bias, move towards the rear until they lock and then wind forward 2 clicks. This prevents the fronts from locking giving you steering all the time up to and beyond threashold. For race I would sometimes look to disconnect the anti roll bars but in a track day situation, just sort your bias out and throw on some wets. A word of warning, make sure that you know which way the bias winds from front to rear. Some are clockwise and some are ant clockwise. I have driven cars with front bias as clockwise and some with rearward clockwise.
Heres some in car from the first few exploritory laps. The short shifting is explined above although I would still be short shifting at several points in those conditions anyway.
https://youtu.be/Mz1BB-NfRu0
Steve Rance said:
Took the Cup car to Brands Hatch on a 101DB day. Fitted a 101DB system and subsiquently failed the noise test at 104DB - as did around half of the other attendees. These included mainly cars with standard exhaust systems such as 996Turbo's, some BMW 3 series road cars etc.. Almost all of the race cars were thrown off. So a word of warning to the GT car owners amongst you - it is unlikely that you will now get on to a Brands Track day as the noise threashold is now even lower than before (drive by 92db. As frustrating for MSV no doubt as it is for everyone else.
Anyway, We managed to get on in the end and through short shifting not get thrown off by breaching the drive by noise meters. It actually snowed during the lunch break and consiquently when the very wet circuit was re-opened there was a general reluctance to go out so we took advantage and got the wet brake bias settings sorted out.
To set your wet bias, move towards the rear until they lock and then wind forward 2 clicks. This prevents the fronts from locking giving you steering all the time up to and beyond threashold. For race I would sometimes look to disconnect the anti roll bars but in a track day situation, just sort your bias out and throw on some wets. A word of warning, make sure that you know which way the bias winds from front to rear. Some are clockwise and some are ant clockwise. I have driven cars with front bias as clockwise and some with rearward clockwise.
Heres some in car from the first few exploritory laps. The short shifting is explined above although I would still be short shifting at several points in those conditions anyway.
https://youtu.be/Mz1BB-NfRu0
Keep it coming Steve - this is great stuff and a very welcome read. Do you have help/ a tech at track to run the 7cup? Anyway, We managed to get on in the end and through short shifting not get thrown off by breaching the drive by noise meters. It actually snowed during the lunch break and consiquently when the very wet circuit was re-opened there was a general reluctance to go out so we took advantage and got the wet brake bias settings sorted out.
To set your wet bias, move towards the rear until they lock and then wind forward 2 clicks. This prevents the fronts from locking giving you steering all the time up to and beyond threashold. For race I would sometimes look to disconnect the anti roll bars but in a track day situation, just sort your bias out and throw on some wets. A word of warning, make sure that you know which way the bias winds from front to rear. Some are clockwise and some are ant clockwise. I have driven cars with front bias as clockwise and some with rearward clockwise.
Heres some in car from the first few exploritory laps. The short shifting is explined above although I would still be short shifting at several points in those conditions anyway.
https://youtu.be/Mz1BB-NfRu0
Cheers
Slodge
Probably quicker than me in perfectly dry conditions 
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