This is starting to make a bit of sense
Discussion
slodge said:
Keep it coming Steve - this is great stuff and a very welcome read. Do you have help/ a tech at track to run the 7cup?
Cheers
Slodge
I am using the car for corporate days. Doing rides for clients so it's useful to have tech support on the day. If I were doing private days it would be perfectly fieasable to run the car alone. All you would need is a trailer, a decent jack so that you can run the car through its warm up program ( very straight forward) and a torque wrench to change wheels if needed. Cup cars nearly always come with a few spare sets of wheels so it's no biggie.Cheers
Slodge
So far I've done 2 days in the car. We shaved the ancient Mich slicks that it came with and even after a day and a bit there's plenty of life in them. The wets were old but fine at brands in the afternoon. So the tyre running costs are probably lower than running a normal GT car. We are going to open up the box after the next day and have a look inside. That will be the crunch time.
Harris_I said:
Thanks for the video - keep 'em coming. And if you are ever at Brands again, please let me know. I have yet to find the time to get mine out on track since the start of the year. Just need the motivation.
Will do but unlikely due to the noise restrictions. The indy isn't a circuit well suited to a cup car, it needs longer track day circuits with bigger distances between other cars on the circuit. The GP at 92 drive by is just not viable anymore A huge shame. Car culture is really being throttled nowadays (pardon the pun).
Reminds me of the letters I used to see in the local papers the day after the Dubai 24 Hours. The authorities there took a more balanced view (at least back then). So you bought a home in a place called "Motor City" overlooking a giant FIA approved race track and you don't like the noise? What were you expecting?!
Reminds me of the letters I used to see in the local papers the day after the Dubai 24 Hours. The authorities there took a more balanced view (at least back then). So you bought a home in a place called "Motor City" overlooking a giant FIA approved race track and you don't like the noise? What were you expecting?!
Hi Steve, have you run the car on new rubber yet?
To me it feels like a different car (not just faster, but also "nicer") when on new rubber as personally I don't get along with part used ones (and it's the same for pre- and post 2010 cars) once they have been through a few cycles and after having had some used tyres fail on me (one resulting in a spin that could have ended real nasty), I don't buy tyres second hand anymore.
It is a cost factor as you say but in the overall scheme of costs I personally don't think it's worth the risk.
I'm out Fr./Sat. and can't wait. I still relish driving the road cars, but there's no coming back from the Cup cars...
To me it feels like a different car (not just faster, but also "nicer") when on new rubber as personally I don't get along with part used ones (and it's the same for pre- and post 2010 cars) once they have been through a few cycles and after having had some used tyres fail on me (one resulting in a spin that could have ended real nasty), I don't buy tyres second hand anymore.
It is a cost factor as you say but in the overall scheme of costs I personally don't think it's worth the risk.
I'm out Fr./Sat. and can't wait. I still relish driving the road cars, but there's no coming back from the Cup cars...
I definitely get the argument and much prefer to run on fresh rubber but the closing speeds for other track users concern me. Here is some in car at Silverstone GP. The car is on old tyres. Fresh rubber would be a lot quicker. It was a Goldtrack day and the standard of driving was generally decent.
https://youtu.be/YErpz6fbKh8
The. Pirellis had several heat cycles. They are nowhere near as quick as the Miches. My initial thoughts are that they are suitable for track days. Unlike the Miches which tend to wear out, the Pirelli degrades with cycles, wear being secondary.
https://youtu.be/YErpz6fbKh8
The. Pirellis had several heat cycles. They are nowhere near as quick as the Miches. My initial thoughts are that they are suitable for track days. Unlike the Miches which tend to wear out, the Pirelli degrades with cycles, wear being secondary.
Agree - the Pirelli stays reasonable a lot longer. The Michelin has its peak on lap 3 and its downhill from there. The best compromise is probably to o for a Pirelli and to run it just that tad longer.
Clean driving Steve, here's my footage from last weekend:
https://vimeo.com/165773788
Some nice cars out, including some 962 Porsches.
Clean driving Steve, here's my footage from last weekend:
https://vimeo.com/165773788
Some nice cars out, including some 962 Porsches.
noneedtolift said:
Agree - the Pirelli stays reasonable a lot longer. The Michelin has its peak on lap 3 and its downhill from there. The best compromise is probably to o for a Pirelli and to run it just that tad longer.
Clean driving Steve, here's my footage from last weekend:
https://vimeo.com/165773788
Some nice cars out, including some 962 Porsches.
Very smooth. What GCU/box is fitted to the car out of interest?Clean driving Steve, here's my footage from last weekend:
https://vimeo.com/165773788
Some nice cars out, including some 962 Porsches.
fergus said:
noneedtolift said:
Agree - the Pirelli stays reasonable a lot longer. The Michelin has its peak on lap 3 and its downhill from there. The best compromise is probably to o for a Pirelli and to run it just that tad longer.
Clean driving Steve, here's my footage from last weekend:
https://vimeo.com/165773788
Some nice cars out, including some 962 Porsches.
Very smooth. What GCU/box is fitted to the car out of interest?Clean driving Steve, here's my footage from last weekend:
https://vimeo.com/165773788
Some nice cars out, including some 962 Porsches.
It's the standard holinger box fitted with a KMP hydraulic shifter (Dutch company I believe) which was on the car when I bought it. I very much like my manual boxes and had a stick on my 3.8 cup car, but with the paddles it's actually pretty cool and a lot less physical. Having said that, it does miss a gear every now and then, but maybe that's just my box on its way out ...
Another update for you chaps considering running a 997 cup. Had the gearbox rebuilt. Repalced draw collars, dog rings etc.. Total cost sub £4k so definately not the horror story that it used to be. Needs a new cable and a few other odds and ends though that will ultimately put the cost up - probably by another £1k.
The experience so far is as I expected and hoped. If you are careful, these cars can be run relatively in expensively. The key factor is how many hours that I get out of the rebuilt box. It's easy to protect the engine in a cup car by simply short shifting. I tend to use 7800 RPM as a shift point although with worn tyres, a short shift on tighter exits is needed anyway.
The gearbox is a lot more difficult to nurse. You need to be firm with upshifts and smooth/precise with your heal toe downshifts. With a H pattern, you can take a lot more stress out of the box.
Here's some in car at Rockingham. The banking is easy flat in 6th but with a passenger i'm keeping a little back just in case. On some of the lower risk corners, i'm at 10/10ths.
https://youtu.be/KtAn3pPns9s
The experience so far is as I expected and hoped. If you are careful, these cars can be run relatively in expensively. The key factor is how many hours that I get out of the rebuilt box. It's easy to protect the engine in a cup car by simply short shifting. I tend to use 7800 RPM as a shift point although with worn tyres, a short shift on tighter exits is needed anyway.
The gearbox is a lot more difficult to nurse. You need to be firm with upshifts and smooth/precise with your heal toe downshifts. With a H pattern, you can take a lot more stress out of the box.
Here's some in car at Rockingham. The banking is easy flat in 6th but with a passenger i'm keeping a little back just in case. On some of the lower risk corners, i'm at 10/10ths.
https://youtu.be/KtAn3pPns9s
Hi Steve sent u mail heres some footage from 1st K/hill.. engine run in running on well used Pirellis DM front DH rear and on RING suspension form OCT .. Car handles well on that set up would it be worth changing it all back to UK std Cup shocks that it run on when racing in GT CUP ??? Easy job as I do my own spannering ... now saving it for Spa with Gold track in Aug Cheers G
https://youtu.be/0zrl5t0wxaM
https://youtu.be/0zrl5t0wxaM
Hello Chaps.
3/4's of the way throught the season and I thought that i'd give those of you interested in running a 997 cup as a track day option an update.
The car has now completed 10 days at an average of 100 laps per day which equates to about 35 corporate rides per event from my perspective. Generally the it has run pretty fautlessly. My only caviat is the gearbox which is most definately the achiles heal of the car. Following a rebuild earlier in the year the box is out again for another one. As yet, it hasnt been opened but the quantily of metalic particles in the oil does not look promising - on saying that, the nature of the gear box means that evidence of dog wear will immediately find its way to the sump which can make things look worse than they might be. I remain hopeful but fear that i may be living in a fool's paradise.
Other than that, running costs have been as expected. I have spent the majority of the year running on second hand Pirellis which - after multi heat cycles give up much of thier grip. However, if coaxed carefully will give 2 or 3 days if needed. For those of you who try this, you will need to change your driving style as the tyres give life. Typically on day 1, you drive normally. Day 2 will require more coaxing into apex and more front bias as the rears give up grip. Day 3 will require a completely different style which is a real hoot. Usual trail brake on turn in, aim for a theroetical apex about a yard inside the real one, come off of the brakes early to open the diff to rotate the car as all 4 wheels drift across the circuit to the apex. A few stabs of the throttle at apex if needed for further rotation then hard on for the exit as the car straightens. I found this hugely rewarding and most interesting as my experience driving these cars has always been limited to tyres that had much more life in them.
This is a great learning experience where the driver is continually challenged to adapt his/her driving style to extract the most from the tyres. On saying that, I would not advise drivers of lesser experience to stretch thier tyres beyond a day and a half as things can get a little tricky beyond that. A further word of warning, when near the end of thier life, the last few moments are very brief and no discernable loss of grip is apparent - as there is none there at that point anyway. So be careful and visually check for wear after each session. the following pic shows the left rear at the end of the day.
more updates to follow.
3/4's of the way throught the season and I thought that i'd give those of you interested in running a 997 cup as a track day option an update.
The car has now completed 10 days at an average of 100 laps per day which equates to about 35 corporate rides per event from my perspective. Generally the it has run pretty fautlessly. My only caviat is the gearbox which is most definately the achiles heal of the car. Following a rebuild earlier in the year the box is out again for another one. As yet, it hasnt been opened but the quantily of metalic particles in the oil does not look promising - on saying that, the nature of the gear box means that evidence of dog wear will immediately find its way to the sump which can make things look worse than they might be. I remain hopeful but fear that i may be living in a fool's paradise.
Other than that, running costs have been as expected. I have spent the majority of the year running on second hand Pirellis which - after multi heat cycles give up much of thier grip. However, if coaxed carefully will give 2 or 3 days if needed. For those of you who try this, you will need to change your driving style as the tyres give life. Typically on day 1, you drive normally. Day 2 will require more coaxing into apex and more front bias as the rears give up grip. Day 3 will require a completely different style which is a real hoot. Usual trail brake on turn in, aim for a theroetical apex about a yard inside the real one, come off of the brakes early to open the diff to rotate the car as all 4 wheels drift across the circuit to the apex. A few stabs of the throttle at apex if needed for further rotation then hard on for the exit as the car straightens. I found this hugely rewarding and most interesting as my experience driving these cars has always been limited to tyres that had much more life in them.
This is a great learning experience where the driver is continually challenged to adapt his/her driving style to extract the most from the tyres. On saying that, I would not advise drivers of lesser experience to stretch thier tyres beyond a day and a half as things can get a little tricky beyond that. A further word of warning, when near the end of thier life, the last few moments are very brief and no discernable loss of grip is apparent - as there is none there at that point anyway. So be careful and visually check for wear after each session. the following pic shows the left rear at the end of the day.
more updates to follow.
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