GT4 on track

Author
Discussion

Sandy59

2,706 posts

211 months

Friday 13th May 2016
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
I have just done the rear adjustable monoball toe links , shims in total 18mm up front, and an extra 5mm in the rear.

Tim has also had the CUP LCA which are pictured on top of the shims and toe links.

All straight forward stuff.

I imo hit the limit for a road use car and caster issues, I think Tim has gone a bit more extreame than my settings.
but he lives on track ;-)

As Tim has said the "transformation" in feel alone is quite big, the car feels proper GT now

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 13th May 18:30
It you want a more GT sound inside the cabin, a friend of mine removed the carpet section just behind the engine and it made quite a difference - bit of weight gone as well !!

ChrisW.

6,299 posts

255 months

Saturday 14th May 2016
quotequote all
Thanks, --- let's see what can be done smile

Sandy59

2,706 posts

211 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
Does anyone have the Porsche OE part no's for the front and rear Cup toe links at all ??
My OPC doesn't seem to be able to find them, do they come from another supplier ??
Ta.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

265 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
Sandy59 said:
Does anyone have the Porsche OE part no's for the front and rear Cup toe links at all ??
My OPC doesn't seem to be able to find them, do they come from another supplier ??
Ta.
they need a Porsche motosport parts list, OPC's are not great at part hunting. you don't need front toe links, no such thing !

you want rear CUP toe links and if going crazy CUP front LCA. (pt no. for the LCA is in my pic) (but only 3/4 of the toe link no. visable)

Thing is no stock in the UK (reading) atm after me posting about them, so will have to be a Germany order now.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

265 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
Not on track but we have to fill up with Vpower in good company :-)


Sandy59

2,706 posts

211 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
Sandy59 said:
Does anyone have the Porsche OE part no's for the front and rear Cup toe links at all ??
My OPC doesn't seem to be able to find them, do they come from another supplier ??
Ta.
they need a Porsche motosport parts list, OPC's are not great at part hunting. you don't need front toe links, no such thing !

you want rear CUP toe links and if going crazy CUP front LCA. (pt no. for the LCA is in my pic) (but only 3/4 of the toe link no. visable)

Thing is no stock in the UK (reading) atm after me posting about them, so will have to be a Germany order now.
Thanks for that info, will just be going for the rears I think if I can get them.

Sandy59

2,706 posts

211 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
they need a Porsche motosport parts list, OPC's are not great at part hunting. you don't need front toe links, no such thing !

you want rear CUP toe links and if going crazy CUP front LCA. (pt no. for the LCA is in my pic) (but only 3/4 of the toe link no. visable)

Thing is no stock in the UK (reading) atm after me posting about them, so will have to be a Germany order now.
So when you say CUP, is that the same as the GT4 Clubsport ??
Porsche actually just got back to me now with the Motorsport GT4 Clubsport p/n 9813310458A. Looking at the picture you posted I can see the first 6/7 numbers tie up at least.

iantr

3,372 posts

239 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
I did nearly 200 miles around Brands GP yesterday, something like 80 laps. Two complete tanks of fuel. It was awesome...!

It was damp during the morning, and even tip-toeing around I had a couple of interesting moments. Note to self - wait until you've properly cleared the the little crest between Clearways and Clarke before getting on the gas. That said, I had no sense that the car was going to do anything surprising near the limit. It was notably confidence inspiring, and when it went it was catchable even by a non-demon like myself. I left all of the TC stuff working, which is probably the better explanation.

In the afternoon the track dried out properly. This - along with a couple of sessions with an instructor - saw me gaining confidence and starting to make the car work harder. Turning in at Druids the front felt fantastic; it would push a little after the apex but I found I could use the throttle to nibble at this without feeling that the car was going to snap at me. Too early on the gas at Graham Hill offers showboating opportunities for the pit and paddock, but that's not for me.

Surtees seems much harder on 4 wheels than on 2. You have to relax and cope with a little instability under initial braking just like on the bike, but I found it hard to get to the apex as the front would run wide. My instructor helped me a lot here - trail braking and a slower entry speed saw my line improve no end.

My car has steel brakes, and I found these to be faultless. Doing 5 or 6 lap stints I had no issues with fade, but I could really feel the difference as they warmed up over an out lap. By the end of the day I was braking pretty late and hard into Hawthorn where the compression of the dip helps keep the car planted. Braking over the crest into Paddock I know I was nowhere near the car's capabilities; something to work on next time.

Coming from bikes I can rev match, so activating the auto-blip Sports mode felt like cheating but helped me devote more attention to brake modulation and turn-in. I found it helped a lot into corners like Druids, Surtees and Westfield in the wet when there is a lot going on and the nice little yellow light is flickering away.

Later in the day I tried the Sport suspension setting too. The main impact of this was improved stability when coming off the brakes to turn in. On a smooth surface like Brands I'd go for this from the start next time. I wish I'd thought to try it when the track was damp earlier on. I suspect that normal for wet, sport for dry might be the way to go but this requires further investigation.

I find myself dismissive of forum chat regarding gearing and lack of engine excitement. I never found myself feeling that I didn't have the right gear available, and torque pays off up the hill out of Surtees just as it does on a bike. I think that Porsche have a good balance for ordinary mortals like myself.

Negatives? I was disappointed to see the car fail the 101db drive by test. This is going to be a PITA. I'm not 100% convinced about steering feel, particularly over the crest into Paddock where I felt more feedback would have helped. I had a VXR220 a few years ago which definitely felt more connected. 100 miles on a tank isn't great from a hassle/interruption point of view but there you go.

Setup:
Car is on Cup 2's. I eventually settled pressures (hot) at 2.1F/2.4R. The TPM "circular path" mode is good for keeping an eye on this.
-2.0deg at the rear, -2.2deg at the front. RSS Adjustable Rear Toe Steer Kit.
ARB med-med



Edited by iantr on Thursday 26th May 16:14

ras62

1,090 posts

156 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
Two tanks is 7 mpg? Good grief that's a serious drink issueeek

lemmingjames

7,456 posts

204 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
iantr said:
I left all of the TC stuff working,
what the actual titty fk are you doing man,

Steve Rance

5,446 posts

231 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
iantr said:
I did nearly 200 miles around Brands GP yesterday, something like 80 laps. Two complete tanks of fuel. It was awesome...!

It was damp during the morning, and even tip-toeing around I had a couple of interesting moments. Note to self - wait until you've properly cleared the the little crest between Clearways and Clarke before getting on the gas. That said, I had no sense that the car was going to do anything surprising near the limit. It was notably confidence inspiring, and when it went it was catchable even by a non-demon like myself. I left all of the TC stuff working, which is probably the better explanation.

In the afternoon the track dried out properly. This - along with a couple of sessions with an instructor - saw me gaining confidence and starting to make the car work harder. Turning in at Druids the front felt fantastic; it would push a little after the apex but I found I could use the throttle to nibble at this without feeling that the car was going to snap at me. Too early on the gas at Graham Hill offers showboating opportunities for the pit and paddock, but that's not for me.

Surtees seems much harder on 4 wheels than on 2. You have to relax and cope with a little instability under initial braking just like on the bike, but I found it hard to get to the apex as the front would run wide. My instructor helped me a lot here - trail braking and a slower entry speed saw my line improve no end.

My car has steel brakes, and I found these to be faultless. Doing 5 or 6 lap stints I had no issues with fade, but I could really feel the difference as they warmed up over an out lap. By the end of the day I was braking pretty late and hard into Hawthorn where the compression of the dip helps keep the car planted. Braking over the crest into Paddock I know I was nowhere near the car's capabilities; something to work on next time.

Coming from bikes I can rev match, so activating the auto-blip Sports mode felt like cheating but helped me devote more attention to brake modulation and turn-in. I found it helped a lot into corners like Druids, Surtees and Westfield in the wet when there is a lot going on and the nice little yellow light is flickering away.

Later in the day I tried the Sport suspension setting too. The main impact of this was improved stability when coming off the brakes to turn in. On a smooth surface like Brands I'd go for this from the start next time. I wish I'd thought to try it when the track was damp earlier on. I suspect that normal for wet, sport for dry might be the way to go but this requires further investigation.

I find myself dismissive of forum chat regarding gearing and lack of engine excitement. I never found myself feeling that I didn't have the right gear available, and torque pays off up the hill out of Surtees just as it does on a bike. I think that Porsche have a good balance for ordinary mortals like myself.

Negatives? I was disappointed to see the car fail the 101db drive by test. This is going to be a PITA. I'm not 100% convinced about steering feel, particularly over the crest into Paddock where I felt more feedback would have helped. I had a VXR220 a few years ago which definitely felt more connected. 100 miles on a tank isn't great from a hassle/interruption point of view but there you go.

Setup:
Car is on Cup 2's. I eventually settled pressures (hot) at 2.1F/2.4R. The TPM "circular path" mode is good for keeping an eye on this.
-2.2deg at the rear, -2deg at the front. RSS Adjustable Rear Toe Steer Kit.
ARB med-med
Interesting that you found the car a little vaigue on the entry to paddock. I experienced the same vaiguness entering eu rouge.
Definately something that needs resolving in the set up of the car. My experience was that the car does not like changes of direction in down hill sections. Hopefully it is just a set up fix and no hardware will be required.

iantr

3,372 posts

239 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
Steve Rance said:
Interesting that you found the car a little vaigue on the entry to paddock. I experienced the same vaiguness entering eu rouge.
Definately something that needs resolving in the set up of the car. My experience was that the car does not like changes of direction in down hill sections. Hopefully it is just a set up fix and no hardware will be required.
I think it was better with the suspension in sport mode, but can't swear to that. More investigation required.

Removing the front aero ducts is supposed to create more downforce at the front to balance out any increase in wing angle. This might be worth investigating. I wonder if anyone on the US forums has tried; Laguna Seca has some nice changes of direction in downhill sections. I will have a dig later.




Edited by iantr on Thursday 26th May 14:58

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

265 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
you have more neg camber at the rear than the front !

I have -2.3 up front and only -1.8 at the back and the backs getting no where near to the edges while the front still is.

iantr

3,372 posts

239 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
you have more neg camber at the rear than the front !

I have -2.3 up front and only -1.8 at the back and the backs getting no where near to the edges while the front still is.
Or it's a typing error. Will edit now.

Steve Rance

5,446 posts

231 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Ideally Id be looking to up the front shock rate if the car was running passively - which I know it doesn't. That will help dynamically but it won't improve feel. That is a separate issue that must be addressed. I would not be looking to increase front end grip until this trait was well and truly understood and sorted.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

265 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
you could fit a dsc box and play with rates with that

" DSC Sport senses the brake force and shift of weight to the front of the vehicle, and it immediately sends a signal to stiffen the front dampers in order to counteract this severe loading of the front end.

Then continuing through the turn, as you start to get on the throttle and the vehicle's weight shifts from the front tires (under braking) to the outside rear tire, the DSC Sport reacts again, signaling the outside rear damper to stiffen up to support the load on that corner of the chassis!

What the driver feels is a vehicle/chassis that refuses to be upset by rapid directions changes and weight shifts.."

Or buy a BMW GTS with 265 front tyres and with that bit of weight over the front no understeer ever lol MIght even buy a M4 Comp pack car for myself, getting a bit board of new Porkers and now the 911 is a Turbo why even buy one over a M4 Comp pack car ?


Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 27th May 09:05

Steve Rance

5,446 posts

231 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Yep. I'm not surprised it feels vaigue with so any variables acting on the chasis outside of the drivers control.

I have a inherant hatred of all active chasis for this reason. Whilst I can understand why the lowest common denominator would prefer such systems on a GT car, those who actually prefer to do the driving themselves will always be left short changed.

Porsche911R

21,146 posts

265 months

Friday 27th May 2016
quotequote all
Steve Rance said:
Yep. I'm not surprised it feels vaigue with so any variables acting on the chasis outside of the drivers control.

I have a inherant hatred of all active chasis for this reason. Whilst I can understand why the lowest common denominator would prefer such systems on a GT car, those who actually prefer to do the driving themselves will always be left short changed.
I agree I hate PASM, My Spyder is still the most fun car to drive, and as you know I sold my R ,missed it and bought another, the Passive set up and older steering in the R and Spyder is a nice thing.

My R is a nicer feeling car on the road and on the limit than my GT4, the GT4 is a understeering mess on the limit in stock form.
It's just much harder to get to the limit as the 245/295 cups 2 stick like st once warm for road use. hence most people don't see it.

My new geo has improved the road set up 10 fold and I can at least get round a round about now lol, but I have no idea why people love the stock GT4 set up, it stinks !

why Porsche never fitted 3 or even basic 2 way shock to GT cars amazes me, esp now all the hot hatch boys have adjustable shocks these days :-(

I have had it with understeering long geared cars, and might have to switch brands next year.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 27th May 10:18

jackwood

2,614 posts

208 months

Saturday 28th May 2016
quotequote all
Porsche911R said:
I agree I hate PASM, My Spyder is still the most fun car to drive, and as you know I sold my R ,missed it and bought another, the Passive set up and older steering in the R and Spyder is a nice thing.

My R is a nicer feeling car on the road and on the limit than my GT4, the GT4 is a understeering mess on the limit in stock form.
It's just much harder to get to the limit as the 245/295 cups 2 stick like st once warm for road use. hence most people don't see it.

My new geo has improved the road set up 10 fold and I can at least get round a round about now lol, but I have no idea why people love the stock GT4 set up, it stinks !

why Porsche never fitted 3 or even basic 2 way shock to GT cars amazes me, esp now all the hot hatch boys have adjustable shocks these days :-(

I have had it with understeering long geared cars, and might have to switch brands next year.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 27th May 10:18
I know what you mean. I'm fed up of crashing at every roundabout too...

Still loving the stock settings. Obviously I'm not a driving God. That must be why.

footsoldier

2,258 posts

192 months

Saturday 28th May 2016
quotequote all
iantr said:
I did nearly 200 miles around Brands GP yesterday, something like 80 laps. Two complete tanks of fuel. It was awesome...!

It was damp during the morning, and even tip-toeing around I had a couple of interesting moments. Note to self - wait until you've properly cleared the the little crest between Clearways and Clarke before getting on the gas. That said, I had no sense that the car was going to do anything surprising near the limit. It was notably confidence inspiring, and when it went it was catchable even by a non-demon like myself. I left all of the TC stuff working, which is probably the better explanation.

In the afternoon the track dried out properly. This - along with a couple of sessions with an instructor - saw me gaining confidence and starting to make the car work harder. Turning in at Druids the front felt fantastic; it would push a little after the apex but I found I could use the throttle to nibble at this without feeling that the car was going to snap at me. Too early on the gas at Graham Hill offers showboating opportunities for the pit and paddock, but that's not for me.

Surtees seems much harder on 4 wheels than on 2. You have to relax and cope with a little instability under initial braking just like on the bike, but I found it hard to get to the apex as the front would run wide. My instructor helped me a lot here - trail braking and a slower entry speed saw my line improve no end.

My car has steel brakes, and I found these to be faultless. Doing 5 or 6 lap stints I had no issues with fade, but I could really feel the difference as they warmed up over an out lap. By the end of the day I was braking pretty late and hard into Hawthorn where the compression of the dip helps keep the car planted. Braking over the crest into Paddock I know I was nowhere near the car's capabilities; something to work on next time.

Coming from bikes I can rev match, so activating the auto-blip Sports mode felt like cheating but helped me devote more attention to brake modulation and turn-in. I found it helped a lot into corners like Druids, Surtees and Westfield in the wet when there is a lot going on and the nice little yellow light is flickering away.

Later in the day I tried the Sport suspension setting too. The main impact of this was improved stability when coming off the brakes to turn in. On a smooth surface like Brands I'd go for this from the start next time. I wish I'd thought to try it when the track was damp earlier on. I suspect that normal for wet, sport for dry might be the way to go but this requires further investigation.

I find myself dismissive of forum chat regarding gearing and lack of engine excitement. I never found myself feeling that I didn't have the right gear available, and torque pays off up the hill out of Surtees just as it does on a bike. I think that Porsche have a good balance for ordinary mortals like myself.

Negatives? I was disappointed to see the car fail the 101db drive by test. This is going to be a PITA. I'm not 100% convinced about steering feel, particularly over the crest into Paddock where I felt more feedback would have helped. I had a VXR220 a few years ago which definitely felt more connected. 100 miles on a tank isn't great from a hassle/interruption point of view but there you go.

Setup:
Car is on Cup 2's. I eventually settled pressures (hot) at 2.1F/2.4R. The TPM "circular path" mode is good for keeping an eye on this.
-2.0deg at the rear, -2.2deg at the front. RSS Adjustable Rear Toe Steer Kit.
ARB med-med



Edited by iantr on Thursday 26th May 16:14
I saw you at Brands, I was out in the track-club Orange Exige.
Didn't turn up til lunchtime so missed the wet stuff!