Discussion
jackwood said:
Porsche911R said:
I agree I hate PASM, My Spyder is still the most fun car to drive, and as you know I sold my R ,missed it and bought another, the Passive set up and older steering in the R and Spyder is a nice thing.
My R is a nicer feeling car on the road and on the limit than my GT4, the GT4 is a understeering mess on the limit in stock form.
It's just much harder to get to the limit as the 245/295 cups 2 stick like s
t once warm for road use. hence most people don't see it.
My new geo has improved the road set up 10 fold and I can at least get round a round about now lol, but I have no idea why people love the stock GT4 set up, it stinks !
why Porsche never fitted 3 or even basic 2 way shock to GT cars amazes me, esp now all the hot hatch boys have adjustable shocks these days :-(
I have had it with understeering long geared cars, and might have to switch brands next year.
I know what you mean. I'm fed up of crashing at every roundabout too...My R is a nicer feeling car on the road and on the limit than my GT4, the GT4 is a understeering mess on the limit in stock form.
It's just much harder to get to the limit as the 245/295 cups 2 stick like s
t once warm for road use. hence most people don't see it.My new geo has improved the road set up 10 fold and I can at least get round a round about now lol, but I have no idea why people love the stock GT4 set up, it stinks !
why Porsche never fitted 3 or even basic 2 way shock to GT cars amazes me, esp now all the hot hatch boys have adjustable shocks these days :-(
I have had it with understeering long geared cars, and might have to switch brands next year.
Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 27th May 10:18
Still loving the stock settings. Obviously I'm not a driving God. That must be why.
In all seriousness, the gt4s sound better outside than gt3s and pace is very good out of the box. I have yet to put mine on circuit but judging from how fast they are versus my csl, I'd say very formidable out of the box. And, frankly, I wouln't want to spoil it just so I can manage tyre wear or under steer at 10/10 on track. It is still just a focused road car.
A lot of people will keep the cars fully stock, it's a shame IMO people will miss out like they do on most cars which can be miles better with a tweak.
I like to get the best from my cars and never run a stock car, it,s not all about trye wear, my cars far more exciting to drive on the road, it does not wash out and the rear comes into play out the bends rather than the stty understeer out of every bend when pushed.
The steering has far more feel which is welcome and turns in more direct with added weight.
I felt the car dull when driven hard at pec, and once I pushed it on the road the set up came to the front as a very weak link.
It's night and day better now , As for any track work one one would really have to be stupid to stay stock. You just trail brake into every bend and understeer out of every bend wrecking tyres going in and going out ! Why drive like that !
I would even question why buy the GT4 with adjustable sus if you don't ever want to adjust it !
but as 80% of GT4 have been flipped and many on here have flipped their cars , it's not about the driving :-(
I like to get the best from my cars and never run a stock car, it,s not all about trye wear, my cars far more exciting to drive on the road, it does not wash out and the rear comes into play out the bends rather than the s
tty understeer out of every bend when pushed.The steering has far more feel which is welcome and turns in more direct with added weight.
I felt the car dull when driven hard at pec, and once I pushed it on the road the set up came to the front as a very weak link.
It's night and day better now , As for any track work one one would really have to be stupid to stay stock. You just trail brake into every bend and understeer out of every bend wrecking tyres going in and going out ! Why drive like that !
I would even question why buy the GT4 with adjustable sus if you don't ever want to adjust it !
but as 80% of GT4 have been flipped and many on here have flipped their cars , it's not about the driving :-(
Dun be mistaken, I think geos and toe links, tie rods and thrust arm bushings that facilitate adjustment of camber are important. Those are minor setup mods that will benefit track work and tarett sells a full set. I fully intend to set my car up that way.
But I also think that the road car setup for a few days a year on track is not that bad for fun and for me good on the road.
But I also think that the road car setup for a few days a year on track is not that bad for fun and for me good on the road.
When people start saying that they are easily surpassing the limits of a car like the gt4 on stock geo on the public road and 'understeering out of every bend', it's clearly just being full of st I'm afraid and not credible. It's ridiculous i agree the stock geo numbers and that one needs all manner of bits and bobs to get a track focused car properly setup for the track with enough camber though. I've got my car setup on the max of stock numbers and rear arb on hard and am quite happy with it so far albeit not being a driving god so don't notice the car being an understeering mess.
t I'm afraid and not credible. It's ridiculous i agree the stock geo numbers and that one needs all manner of bits and bobs to get a track focused car properly setup for the track with enough camber though. I've got my car setup on the max of stock numbers and rear arb on hard and am quite happy with it so far albeit not being a driving god so don't notice the car being an understeering mess.isaldiri said:
When people start saying that they are easily surpassing the limits of a car like the gt4 on stock geo on the public road and 'understeering out of every bend', it's clearly just being full of st I'm afraid and not credible.
I read this and thought - my god , how fast must he be driving on a public road for this to be an issue ? Unless I'm missing something , it sounds crazy to me - all JIMHO of course t I'm afraid and not credible. 
Porsche911R said:
A lot of people will keep the cars fully stock, it's a shame IMO people will miss out like they do on most cars which can be miles better with a tweak.
I like to get the best from my cars and never run a stock car, it,s not all about trye wear, my cars far more exciting to drive on the road, it does not wash out and the rear comes into play out the bends rather than the stty understeer out of every bend when pushed.
The steering has far more feel which is welcome and turns in more direct with added weight.
I felt the car dull when driven hard at pec, and once I pushed it on the road the set up came to the front as a very weak link.
It's night and day better now , As for any track work one one would really have to be stupid to stay stock. You just trail brake into every bend and understeer out of every bend wrecking tyres going in and going out ! Why drive like that !
I would even question why buy the GT4 with adjustable sus if you don't ever want to adjust it !
but as 80% of GT4 have been flipped and many on here have flipped their cars , it's not about the driving :-(
Have you considered starting up a tuning company to rival Manthey or even manufacture your own cars? I like to get the best from my cars and never run a stock car, it,s not all about trye wear, my cars far more exciting to drive on the road, it does not wash out and the rear comes into play out the bends rather than the s
tty understeer out of every bend when pushed.The steering has far more feel which is welcome and turns in more direct with added weight.
I felt the car dull when driven hard at pec, and once I pushed it on the road the set up came to the front as a very weak link.
It's night and day better now , As for any track work one one would really have to be stupid to stay stock. You just trail brake into every bend and understeer out of every bend wrecking tyres going in and going out ! Why drive like that !
I would even question why buy the GT4 with adjustable sus if you don't ever want to adjust it !
but as 80% of GT4 have been flipped and many on here have flipped their cars , it's not about the driving :-(
80% cars flipped? Really or is this just one more cheap headline? Prove it or retract it.
Back to topic before this degenerates in typical PH fashion ...
1). What is the maximum camber front and back that can be achieved without new toe-arms? (shims okay)
2). Can people share their experience with arb settings ... med front/hard rear I hear is causing car to be too oversteery. How does soft front and med hard work in comparison?
Thanks.
1). What is the maximum camber front and back that can be achieved without new toe-arms? (shims okay)
2). Can people share their experience with arb settings ... med front/hard rear I hear is causing car to be too oversteery. How does soft front and med hard work in comparison?
Thanks.
ShakMan said:
Back to topic before this degenerates in typical PH fashion ...
1). What is the maximum camber front and back that can be achieved without new toe-arms? (shims okay)
2). Can people share their experience with arb settings ... med front/hard rear I hear is causing car to be too oversteery. How does soft front and med hard work in comparison?
Thanks.
I think you need to get it on track first and experience how bad it is for you before jumping in. 1). What is the maximum camber front and back that can be achieved without new toe-arms? (shims okay)
2). Can people share their experience with arb settings ... med front/hard rear I hear is causing car to be too oversteery. How does soft front and med hard work in comparison?
Thanks.
In reality, one may or may not be good enough to be frustrated by stock settings...... Which means money is best spent elsewhere or be in complete bliss re the stock handling.
GT3cs said:
Potentially doing a last minute track day tomorrow , and currently don't have any cover in place . In fact will be a right pain to change as currently with admiral on a multi car policy who won't cover at all ( buts let's not get into that ) . Anyone track a GT4 without cover ?
Yes, my last one at Oulton, forgot to let the insurance company know 24 hours in advance so wasn't covered. Just crossed my fingers and missed the first and last hours when most incidents tend to occur in my limited experience. The former from cars wth issues, the latter from drivers with issues I.e. 'One last really quick run....'
BubblesNW said:
Yes, my last one at Oulton, forgot to let the insurance company know 24 hours in advance so wasn't covered.
Just crossed my fingers and missed the first and last hours when most incidents tend to occur in my limited experience. The former from cars wth issues, the latter from drivers with issues I.e. 'One last really quick run....'
Good thinking on missing the start . Going to be a pretty quiet day from what I can see. 20+ places left . Just crossed my fingers and missed the first and last hours when most incidents tend to occur in my limited experience. The former from cars wth issues, the latter from drivers with issues I.e. 'One last really quick run....'
LaSource said:
Just to check I have this right, do you mean harder front and softer rear?
Surely this means that the front tyres will roll less but with a greater need to trail brake --- and I guess more grip at the rear but with no tyre shoulder issue there anyway ... ?Since rear grip is not an issue why would you soften the rear ?
In response to the poster who wanted an arb set up to counter oversteer from his current set up. I have no specific set up information on the GT4 - although after driving one at Spa that's the principle that I would have initially tried to counter the oversteer and lack of feel of the car through Eu rouge.
Edited: apologies I meant oversteer not understeer. I did not experience understeer but was driving with a slight trail.
Edited: apologies I meant oversteer not understeer. I did not experience understeer but was driving with a slight trail.
Edited by Steve Rance on Monday 30th May 07:45
To be honest, I think the stock geo is really 'not bad' if the car is an occasional track car.
It works well on the road (I don't approach any limits of grip on A roads or roundabouts) and provides strong pace on the track (albeit a bit more trail is needed to make the apex).
At the moment I am of the view that the front tyre wear (in the centre of tyre) is a characteristic of this car and will be there to some extent even on a fast road type geo setting.
It works well on the road (I don't approach any limits of grip on A roads or roundabouts
) and provides strong pace on the track (albeit a bit more trail is needed to make the apex).At the moment I am of the view that the front tyre wear (in the centre of tyre) is a characteristic of this car and will be there to some extent even on a fast road type geo setting.
LaSource said:
To be honest, I think the stock geo is really 'not bad' if the car is an occasional track car.
It works well on the road (I don't approach any limits of grip on A roads or roundabouts) and provides strong pace on the track (albeit a bit more trail is needed to make the apex).
At the moment I am of the view that the front tyre wear (in the centre of tyre) is a characteristic of this car and will be there to some extent even on a fast road type geo setting.
+1It works well on the road (I don't approach any limits of grip on A roads or roundabouts
) and provides strong pace on the track (albeit a bit more trail is needed to make the apex).At the moment I am of the view that the front tyre wear (in the centre of tyre) is a characteristic of this car and will be there to some extent even on a fast road type geo setting.
Set up as per factory on track the car has a remarkably neutral balance and all the b/s from certain quarters about excessive over/under steer is rubbish. The car is bang in the sweet spot where small changes make a marked difference to the chassis behavior. It is easy to feel the difference that each arb setting makes to the car. Driving style also makes a marked difference to cornering behavior. Anybody experiencing an excessive behavior in the handling should seek some driver training prior to making any chassis changes.
It does work it's front tyres hard which is not surprising given the apex speeds that it can achieve. Managing tyre pressures is important, and once again the chassis behavior responds to small changes.
As for any vagueness in Eau Rouge I'm not sure we noticed that. The right left transition could be crisper but I never felt that I had found the limit, a bit more grunt here might help. We have PCCB so that might make a small difference to a steel braked car.
For me the best bit of the chassis is the ability to brake right into the apex without any issues at all, sweet for a road car.
Overall a brilliant car, great to play with and learn about chassis behavior. Don't bother trying to make it go faster just buy an old Cup car and really push yourself. Over to you Steve
HokumPokum said:
My understanding is that in stock mode it oversteers on corner entry..
Did you see any over steer into bends at Anglesey ? The only reason people are getting over steer into corner entry are the guys who say stock geo is ok so have to trail into the apex making the rear go light. ! !
This forum is funny ......
isaldiri said:
When people start saying that they are easily surpassing the limits of a car like the gt4 on stock geo on the public road and 'understeering out of every bend', it's clearly just being full of st I'm afraid and not credible. It's ridiculous i agree the stock geo numbers and that one needs all manner of bits and bobs to get a track focused car properly setup for the track with enough camber though. I've got my car setup on the max of stock numbers and rear arb on hard and am quite happy with it so far albeit not being a driving god so don't notice the car being an understeering mess.
Read the post !! Understeering out of every bend was a on track quote ! t I'm afraid and not credible. It's ridiculous i agree the stock geo numbers and that one needs all manner of bits and bobs to get a track focused car properly setup for the track with enough camber though. I've got my car setup on the max of stock numbers and rear arb on hard and am quite happy with it so far albeit not being a driving god so don't notice the car being an understeering mess.No one is full of s
t that's how the car is ! On the limits in stock form. I see you don't run stock or middle rear arb setting !
Ffs read the post and why say full of s
t and not credible when clearly you are the one being a dick ! Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff