Discussion
stef1808 said:
Pretty sure u mean GTR And Turbo drivers
Stereotyping aside, most turbo drivers are fine too 
However, yes we've all had that one forced induction driver who just refuses to move over or lift off throttle on the straights but doesn't get the fact that a lower powered car in your mirrors after 2 corners is probably a faster car/driver package...
jackwood said:
Well and truly run in. 4000 miles and counting...
Oh i know yours is, when are you able to give a comparison to your 996.3. Ive seen Paul G's comments and Lasources but your opinion or do you now need more seat time in the 6.3? 
I meant someone else.
Also, we all know turbo'd cars are owned by people unable to drive
lemmingjames said:
Oh i know yours is, when are you able to give a comparison to your 996.3. Ive seen Paul G's comments and Lasources but your opinion or do you now need more seat time in the 6.3?
I meant someone else.
Also, we all know turbo'd cars are owned by people unable to drive
My views mirror LaSource. It'll be in print next month in GTPorsche mag. I'll post it here once it's been in the print mag. I meant someone else.
Also, we all know turbo'd cars are owned by people unable to drive
ChrisW. said:
Trev450 said:
Possibly a stone caught in the caliper.
And this one ?
Seems to be a bit of a design fault with PCCB, as it's happening to a lot of people, but it's going to be very hard to get Porsche to accept any responsibility I'd think.
Unless someone says there's a good reason not to, I'm just going to keep using it as is. I'm guessing it won't cheer me up if I ask them how much for a replacement!
footsoldier said:
I have the exactly same thing on 918 - was definitely a stone getting caught, as after some loud screeching, I went straight to a jet wash and blasted it out, but too late.
Seems to be a bit of a design fault with PCCB, as it's happening to a lot of people, but it's going to be very hard to get Porsche to accept any responsibility I'd think.
Unless someone says there's a good reason not to, I'm just going to keep using it as is. I'm guessing it won't cheer me up if I ask them how much for a replacement!
It's not just on PCCB's. I had it on my 997GTS with steels - pulled off from petrol station, put my foot on the brake and heard a horrible squeal. sSeems to be a bit of a design fault with PCCB, as it's happening to a lot of people, but it's going to be very hard to get Porsche to accept any responsibility I'd think.
Unless someone says there's a good reason not to, I'm just going to keep using it as is. I'm guessing it won't cheer me up if I ask them how much for a replacement!
t the life out of me. A tip I was told was to stop immediately, put it in reverse and apply brakes. The stone made a big score in my disc. I mentioned it in another thread when I was spec'ing my GT4 - it's one of the reasons that put me off ordering PCCB's. Agree though, does seem a common prob with Porsche callipers - never had it on any other car.
Edited by Phooey on Saturday 7th May 13:34
jackwood said:
Can we get some pictures of the fronts, please?
How many total miles?
Finally got around to some pics today.How many total miles?
So the car has done somewhere between 2.5-3k miles
She has had 4 track days at Silverstone, Spa, Ring, Spa. Each of these track days were shared with a 996 GT3 as well and therefore not full on dawn till dusk running on the same car....the Ring day was relatively low duty for the GT4. You could equate this to 2 full track days I guess.
To give an idea of how I drive, looking at the videos after the event, fastest laps are circa 2:26 at Silverstone, 2:49 at Spa, and around 8min BTG at the Ring.
Tyres are Cup 2s. They were run at circa 29/33 hot pressures.
Geo is std - actually we did attempt to adjust geo without the additional component changes but reverted to std setting albeit at the extremes of the green tolerance levels.
Front right:
Front left:
You can see the front left has particularly suffered with a chamfered wear on the off centre tread block. The tyre edge also somewhat worn. Maybe my driving technique/style could be better.
Someone posted earlier that I should not be surprised at the high wear rate of the Cups on standard geo....well, that maybe true, however, I am still a little surprised given this is really only equivalent to ~2 track days.
Shims and other relevant suspensions arms will be installed in a fortnight so that we can aim for something around 2.5/2.0 neg camber as a start and see what impact it has on track performance and tyre longevity.
Edited by LaSource on Sunday 8th May 01:36
Edited by LaSource on Sunday 8th May 01:37
ChrisW. said:
Changing the subject ...
What would cause this ?
Steve Rance said:
Down to the wear bars. very worrying.
I would expect a lot more out of a set of Cup 2's. They wear a lot better that the original cups. You will get a bit more with a sharper geo but it won't be light and day.
What are the 991 Gt3 boys getting out of a set of Cuppies?
Just replaced my first set of Cups on the RS, running just under 2d of camber front and rear( max without shims) Just completed its 12 track day....But some wet or fogged out. Plenty MMs left see below, but done to many heat cycles...I would expect a lot more out of a set of Cup 2's. They wear a lot better that the original cups. You will get a bit more with a sharper geo but it won't be light and day.
What are the 991 Gt3 boys getting out of a set of Cuppies?
i remember running cups on my 64 RS that only had the circumferential grooves left ......... which was interesting on the M25 in a downpour..
As for track days the race cars on them are generally rental drivers ,shake downs , letting the wife have a go and doing passenger rides for clients so can vary . But no one is pushing hard and thus do not mind waiting until it is safe to pass.....
Do Not do many days but always the same , a rush in the morning and by late afternoon an empty track .
As for track days the race cars on them are generally rental drivers ,shake downs , letting the wife have a go and doing passenger rides for clients so can vary . But no one is pushing hard and thus do not mind waiting until it is safe to pass.....
Do Not do many days but always the same , a rush in the morning and by late afternoon an empty track .
LaSource said:
jackwood said:
Can we get some pictures of the fronts, please?
How many total miles?
Finally got around to some pics today.How many total miles?
So the car has done somewhere between 2.5-3k miles
She has had 4 track days at Silverstone, Spa, Ring, Spa. Each of these track days were shared with a 996 GT3 as well and therefore not full on dawn till dusk running on the same car....the Ring day was relatively low duty for the GT4. You could equate this to 2 full track days I guess.
To give an idea of how I drive, looking at the videos after the event, fastest laps are circa 2:26 at Silverstone, 2:49 at Spa, and around 8min BTG at the Ring.
Tyres are Cup 2s. They were run at circa 29/33 hot pressures.
Geo is std - actually we did attempt to adjust geo without the additional component changes but reverted to std setting albeit at the extremes of the green tolerance levels.
Front right:
Front left:
You can see the front left has particularly suffered with a chamfered wear on the off centre tread block. The tyre edge also somewhat worn. Maybe my driving technique/style could be better.
Someone posted earlier that I should not be surprised at the high wear rate of the Cups on standard geo....well, that maybe true, however, I am still a little surprised given this is really only equivalent to ~2 track days.
Shims and other relevant suspensions arms will be installed in a fortnight so that we can aim for something around 2.5/2.0 neg camber as a start and see what impact it has on track performance and tyre longevity.
Edited by LaSource on Sunday 8th May 01:36
Edited by LaSource on Sunday 8th May 01:37
What's interesting is that the wear pattern is actually really nice and even across the tyre. It doesn't suggest too much positive camber or tyre roll in the set up. Just looks like regular wear. Like Steve said, a bit more geo might reduce it a bit, but I can't see it making a massive difference. If anything you may just end up with more inner edge wear. It will certainly be interesting to see how that pans out over the summer with a be w set of rubber and the shins/-ve camber.
Thanks again for taking the time to post pics.
Jack
I like your interpretation - much more glass half full than half empty
My surprise was because on the 996 GT3 the Cup 2s have lasted for ages whereas on the GT4 much much less.
I guess you are right that partly this is a mid engined car heavier on front tyres than a rear engined one. Maybe I drive with more entry speed (with tyre scrub to apex) than slow in fast out. Thinking back I lately have been leading more and more with scrub/grip on the front end, feeling for the edge of grip and (on the 996 GT3) using the weight balance and rear axle to change attitude.
On of my racing friends sat in the GT4 with me at Spa and did remark that I was taking more speed into the corner than he would have expected (compared to his style of driving)....so my point is perhaps I am just heavy on the front tyres.
...better geo may not change the overall tyre wear much, but may move some of the scrub focus/balance rearwards.
Not sure if the above makes sense!
My surprise was because on the 996 GT3 the Cup 2s have lasted for ages whereas on the GT4 much much less.
I guess you are right that partly this is a mid engined car heavier on front tyres than a rear engined one. Maybe I drive with more entry speed (with tyre scrub to apex) than slow in fast out. Thinking back I lately have been leading more and more with scrub/grip on the front end, feeling for the edge of grip and (on the 996 GT3) using the weight balance and rear axle to change attitude.
On of my racing friends sat in the GT4 with me at Spa and did remark that I was taking more speed into the corner than he would have expected (compared to his style of driving)....so my point is perhaps I am just heavy on the front tyres.
...better geo may not change the overall tyre wear much, but may move some of the scrub focus/balance rearwards.
Not sure if the above makes sense!
Makes perfect sense.
Driving a GT3fast has always been about getting the car rotated prior to apex, which inherently will lead to less front end usage. As you say, a GT3 is very light on its front tyres and Cup2's will last forever. The rears, not so much.
It certainly points at the GT4 using its balance very differently to achieve the same end result (similar lap times to the '6 GT3) with the consequence being accelerated front end wear.
Driving a GT3fast has always been about getting the car rotated prior to apex, which inherently will lead to less front end usage. As you say, a GT3 is very light on its front tyres and Cup2's will last forever. The rears, not so much.
It certainly points at the GT4 using its balance very differently to achieve the same end result (similar lap times to the '6 GT3) with the consequence being accelerated front end wear.
Interesting stuff chaps - am about to chop in the original cups for cup2's on the 7.2 GT3 and am keen to see what difference I can feel on road and track. I'm still learning this 'pre-apex rotation lark' Jack, I'm hoping the cup2's will help the overall grip and handling...tips welcome!!
Fl0pp3r said:
Interesting stuff chaps - am about to chop in the original cups for cup2's on the 7.2 GT3 and am keen to see what difference I can feel on road and track. I'm still learning this 'pre-apex rotation lark' Jack, I'm hoping the cup2's will help the overall grip and handling...tips welcome!!
Not sure what the 7.2 is like, but the 6's and 7.1's needed a proper motorsport diff fitted to get the rear end to really work with you. More for the percentage lock on on braking as opposed to acceleration. It's the trail braking with an aggressive diff that helps the rotation. A bit intimidating when you first start to try it, but hugely rewarding once you start to get the hang of it. It's in this phase of the corner that huge gains can be made and what makes the difference between a decent and a quick GT3 driver. I'm sure Steve will correct me if I'm wrong...
Thanks for your comments and suggestions --- 'had a fab day at Knockhill with six or seven other GT4's and some really serious stuff !!
I'll post pics shortly, the marks appear to be wearing out --- if that makes sense !
Tyres --- I think trail braking will helps the understeer that is indicated by the high wear rate of the NSF outer shoulder ... but it's still an obvious issue.
Max G seen was I think 1.73 lateral --- but I'll post the pic.
I should be running out of internet anytime now !!!
P.S. I'm going to use them till they wear out --- if they do. And if they do I'll fit a set of Surface Transform and have the original set refurbished by SICOM ...
I'll post pics shortly, the marks appear to be wearing out --- if that makes sense !
Tyres --- I think trail braking will helps the understeer that is indicated by the high wear rate of the NSF outer shoulder ... but it's still an obvious issue.
Max G seen was I think 1.73 lateral --- but I'll post the pic.
I should be running out of internet anytime now !!!
P.S. I'm going to use them till they wear out --- if they do. And if they do I'll fit a set of Surface Transform and have the original set refurbished by SICOM ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 8th May 22:15
I questioned the accuracy a while back when Chris posted up some numbers from his early days in the GT4.
Either way it is most definitely taking and recording "spikes" in g. It doesn't have to be sustained at all. I'm wondering whether hitting a curb or rumble strip can induce these extra high spikes that are seen from time to time.
Either way it is most definitely taking and recording "spikes" in g. It doesn't have to be sustained at all. I'm wondering whether hitting a curb or rumble strip can induce these extra high spikes that are seen from time to time.
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