Discussion
LaSource said:
I'm at Silverstone next Tueaday. Pop down if you are free - should be testing out new geo on the GT4. We can interrogate the data logger too with some overlays from other cars.
Hmm - we could take the 6rs as well - now there's a thought! I may be short a good set of comparable tyres though.
what settings have you gone for ?Hmm - we could take the 6rs as well - now there's a thought! I may be short a good set of comparable tyres though.
jackwood said:
Fl0pp3r said:
Interesting stuff chaps - am about to chop in the original cups for cup2's on the 7.2 GT3 and am keen to see what difference I can feel on road and track. I'm still learning this 'pre-apex rotation lark' Jack, I'm hoping the cup2's will help the overall grip and handling...tips welcome!!
Not sure what the 7.2 is like, but the 6's and 7.1's needed a proper motorsport diff fitted to get the rear end to really work with you. More for the percentage lock on on braking as opposed to acceleration. It's the trail braking with an aggressive diff that helps the rotation. A bit intimidating when you first start to try it, but hugely rewarding once you start to get the hang of it. It's in this phase of the corner that huge gains can be made and what makes the difference between a decent and a quick GT3 driver. I'm sure Steve will correct me if I'm wrong...
Have been trying to trail more on the brakes at the last two circuits and enjoying some success (feels quicker and helps get the rotation started as you say). Not in a position to change the diff tbh, am hoping its still doing what its supposed to! Cup2s and a fast-road geo up next. Enjoy the GT4, always read your column :-)
Porsche911R said:
what settings have you gone for ?
Not finalised yet. Going to discuss with the techs tomorrow. But I'm thinking along the lines of F/R 2.5/2 with Med/Hard settings.
I would like to try closer to 3 deg but I understand even more suspension parts are needed for that.
Will probably try the initial set first and then go further subsequently if needed.
LaSource said:
Not finalised yet. Going to discuss with the techs tomorrow.
But I'm thinking along the lines of F/R 2.5/2 with Med/Hard settings.
I would like to try closer to 3 deg but I understand even more suspension parts are needed for that.
Will probably try the initial set first and then go further subsequently if needed.
What parts are you fitting? But I'm thinking along the lines of F/R 2.5/2 with Med/Hard settings.
I would like to try closer to 3 deg but I understand even more suspension parts are needed for that.
Will probably try the initial set first and then go further subsequently if needed.
Do you need front and rear toe links to get that much camber? Are you doing the camber on the top mounts or putting in LCA shims like David has done?
caster is the issue after -2.5 so Thrush arm bushes are then needed !! at that point buy CUP LCA's
Rear toe links will be def be needed, as an example the cup ones are 40mm longer at max than the oem stock items
here is the cup LCA with a bit of the toe link in the pic, both ends are monoball as is the thrush bush
These very parts are on Tims GT4 now I wonder what setup he now has ? having tried a few now.
Rear toe links will be def be needed, as an example the cup ones are 40mm longer at max than the oem stock items
here is the cup LCA with a bit of the toe link in the pic, both ends are monoball as is the thrush bush
These very parts are on Tims GT4 now I wonder what setup he now has ? having tried a few now.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 11th May 18:58
isaldiri said:
interesting you found that I have to say and quite unexpected for me. Personally I am finding the gt4 is a (very) long way behind the 7.2gt3 in feedback and 'character', albeit mainly being driven on the road so far. Will be at Donington on Friday, hope the car does show itself better then
It has a very different feel to a 911GT car. It's feels well resolved and gives a feeling of integrity and security to the driver. Does it give the same level of feedback to a 911GT3? No It doesn't - but I'm not sure that it needs to as the driver ultimately has lass of an input in extraction most of the performance - the chassis composure is its gift to the driver. With a 911 you must have a higher level of feedback as the driver is essentially an additional chassis component essential in the extraction of proportionately more of its performance. But when you drive a GT4 in anger, it aquits itself very well. For me, the was no doubt that it was a serious GT car. Like the GT3, it's is greater than the sum of its parts. It's just that the GT3 has more special parts so one would expect it to be better. That doesn't mean that the GT4 isn't a bloody good car though.
jackwood said:
What parts are you fitting?
Do you need front and rear toe links to get that much camber? Are you doing the camber on the top mounts or putting in LCA shims like David has done?
I'm talking to Nine Excellence about one of their stage 1 geo packages - I suspect it is shims up front and rear toe to get the required degree of camber and an appropriate geo. Do you need front and rear toe links to get that much camber? Are you doing the camber on the top mounts or putting in LCA shims like David has done?
Next Tuesday at Silverstone will then provide some feedback - I have data traces from a recent visit therefore be interesting to see impact on corner speeds, amount of trail braking needed to hit the apex, etc.
I am hoping for better feedback as well - previously I've felt the GT4 steering goes a little vague in mid corner as you lose something in the ability to tell how much lateral slip/scrub you are getting. I am hoping this is a function of std geo and tyres rolling onto edges...
Will share with you afterwards how it goes.
LaSource said:
jackwood said:
What parts are you fitting?
Do you need front and rear toe links to get that much camber? Are you doing the camber on the top mounts or putting in LCA shims like David has done?
Thanks! I look forward to seeing some data!Do you need front and rear toe links to get that much camber? Are you doing the camber on the top mounts or putting in LCA shims like David has done?
I'm talking to Nine Excellence about one of their stage 1 geo packages - I suspect it is shims up front and rear toe to get the required degree of camber and an appropriate geo.
Next Tuesday at Silverstone will then provide some feedback - I have data traces from a recent visit therefore be interesting to see impact on corner speeds, amount of trail braking needed to hit the apex, etc.
I am hoping for better feedback as well - previously I've felt the GT4 steering goes a little vague in mid corner as you lose something in the ability to tell how much lateral slip/scrub you are getting. I am hoping this is a function of std geo and tyres rolling onto edges...
Will share with you afterwards how it goes.
Fl0pp3r said:
Cheers for the feedback Jack
Have been trying to trail more on the brakes at the last two circuits and enjoying some success (feels quicker and helps get the rotation started as you say). Not in a position to change the diff tbh, am hoping its still doing what its supposed to! Cup2s and a fast-road geo up next. Enjoy the GT4, always read your column :-)
No problem. Plenty to learn in a GT3, as per Steves comments above. The driver makes up a big part of the pace in a GT3. And learning how to extract it is more than half the fun. Have been trying to trail more on the brakes at the last two circuits and enjoying some success (feels quicker and helps get the rotation started as you say). Not in a position to change the diff tbh, am hoping its still doing what its supposed to! Cup2s and a fast-road geo up next. Enjoy the GT4, always read your column :-)
Porsche911R said:
caster is the issue after -2.5 so Thrush arm bushes are then needed !! at that point buy CUP LCA's
Rear toe links will be def be needed, as an example the cup ones are 40mm longer at max than the oem stock items
here is the cup LCA with a bit of the toe link in the pic, both ends are monoball as is the thrush bush
These very parts are on Tims GT4 now I wonder what setup he now has ? having tried a few now.
Hence you stopping short at -2.5deg? Rear toe links will be def be needed, as an example the cup ones are 40mm longer at max than the oem stock items
here is the cup LCA with a bit of the toe link in the pic, both ends are monoball as is the thrush bush
These very parts are on Tims GT4 now I wonder what setup he now has ? having tried a few now.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 11th May 18:58
Actually finding it quite strange now that Porsche have limited the adjustments quite so much. Especially given the high degree of bespoke parts used in the chassis.
Oh, and it's thrust, not thrush ;-)
Porsche911R said:
caster is the issue after -2.5 so Thrush arm bushes are then needed !! at that point buy CUP LCA's
Rear toe links will be def be needed, as an example the cup ones are 40mm longer at max than the oem stock items
here is the cup LCA with a bit of the toe link in the pic, both ends are monoball as is the thrush bush
These very parts are on Tims GT4 now I wonder what setup he now has ? having tried a few now.
Personally I would avoid a thrush bush.Rear toe links will be def be needed, as an example the cup ones are 40mm longer at max than the oem stock items
here is the cup LCA with a bit of the toe link in the pic, both ends are monoball as is the thrush bush
These very parts are on Tims GT4 now I wonder what setup he now has ? having tried a few now.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 11th May 18:58
jackwood said:
Hence you stopping short at -2.5deg?
Actually finding it quite strange now that Porsche have limited the adjustments quite so much. Especially given the high degree of bespoke parts used in the chassis.
I don't do that many trackdays prob 4 this year, so hence going for -2.3 to save the tyres on the road and give me more braking performance.Actually finding it quite strange now that Porsche have limited the adjustments quite so much. Especially given the high degree of bespoke parts used in the chassis.
As I stated even with only -1.8 on the back I cannot get heat into the outers now on the road, my car will wear the inners at the rear now.
I just like the way now on a round about if you turn the steering wheel more it turns in, before if you turn the wheel more it pushed, it you touched the throttle mid bend it pushed, round about speeds were quite low, in fact my ford ST was faster on them than a oem GT4 !
FWIW, ran my GT4 with the Motorsport suspension parts fitted at both the Gold Track Spa on Wednesday and the Lotus on Track Spa on Thursday, these were fitted and set up by Centre Gravity. I've been driving on track for more than twenty years, and I can honestly say this is among the biggest car transformations I've ever experienced. The GT4 feels lighter and much more agile, the steering accuracy and feel have also increased, the road driving aspect seems perfectly fine, but I did suffer some aquaplaning on rain sudden poorly drained Belgium roads which rather reminded me of twenty years ago with a 964RS on P-Zero C's ! Calum Lockie drove the car for a few laps and pronounced it a huge improvement. Somebody apparently naughtily had a watch on him and announced consistent late 2:46's which sounds good for a road car two-up ? Tyre wear is massively reduced compared to my two day visit a month ago, in which I destroyed a new set of fronts. Set up details are for Chris Franklin to divulge should he choose .
I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
ravon said:
FWIW, ran my GT4 with the Motorsport suspension parts fitted at both the Gold Track Spa on Wednesday and the Lotus on Track Spa on Thursday, these were fitted and set up by Centre Gravity. I've been driving on track for more than twenty years, and I can honestly say this is among the biggest car transformations I've ever experienced. The GT4 feels lighter and much more agile, the steering accuracy and feel have also increased, the road driving aspect seems perfectly fine, but I did suffer some aquaplaning on rain sudden poorly drained Belgium roads which rather reminded me of twenty years ago with a 964RS on P-Zero C's ! Calum Lockie drove the car for a few laps and pronounced it a huge improvement. Somebody apparently naughtily had a watch on him and announced consistent late 2:46's which sounds good for a road car two-up ? Tyre wear is massively reduced compared to my two day visit a month ago, in which I destroyed a new set of fronts. Set up details are for Chris Franklin to divulge should he choose .
I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
That's interesting thanks, esp as I'm booked in with Chris end of June and am presently debating whether to fit any new parts.I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
ravon said:
FWIW, ran my GT4 with the Motorsport suspension parts fitted at both the Gold Track Spa on Wednesday and the Lotus on Track Spa on Thursday, these were fitted and set up by Centre Gravity. I've been driving on track for more than twenty years, and I can honestly say this is among the biggest car transformations I've ever experienced. The GT4 feels lighter and much more agile, the steering accuracy and feel have also increased, the road driving aspect seems perfectly fine, but I did suffer some aquaplaning on rain sudden poorly drained Belgium roads which rather reminded me of twenty years ago with a 964RS on P-Zero C's ! Calum Lockie drove the car for a few laps and pronounced it a huge improvement. Somebody apparently naughtily had a watch on him and announced consistent late 2:46's which sounds good for a road car two-up ? Tyre wear is massively reduced compared to my two day visit a month ago, in which I destroyed a new set of fronts. Set up details are for Chris Franklin to divulge should he choose .
I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
Fascinating and informative post...Chris is a wizard, have a car booked in on 25th.I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
ravon said:
FWIW, ran my GT4 with the Motorsport suspension parts fitted at both the Gold Track Spa on Wednesday and the Lotus on Track Spa on Thursday, these were fitted and set up by Centre Gravity. I've been driving on track for more than twenty years, and I can honestly say this is among the biggest car transformations I've ever experienced. The GT4 feels lighter and much more agile, the steering accuracy and feel have also increased, the road driving aspect seems perfectly fine, but I did suffer some aquaplaning on rain sudden poorly drained Belgium roads which rather reminded me of twenty years ago with a 964RS on P-Zero C's ! Calum Lockie drove the car for a few laps and pronounced it a huge improvement. Somebody apparently naughtily had a watch on him and announced consistent late 2:46's which sounds good for a road car two-up ? Tyre wear is massively reduced compared to my two day visit a month ago, in which I destroyed a new set of fronts. Set up details are for Chris Franklin to divulge should he choose .
I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
Very interesting --- I was disappointed at Knockhill that in order not to wash out at the hairpin I had to trail brake in --- which lost me a lot of pace.I also drove a friends GT4 at Silverstone on Monday with a big throttle body, an improved plenum, exhaust manifolds with fancy Cats, an extraordinary improvement, much more rapid at the top end, and howl's like an old GT3, very impressive .
Others who did not saw very substantial front tyre wear.
This now seems like a no brainer of a mod since it is so easily reversible.
Not so for the engine mods !
I have two more days booked very shortly --- Anglesey a week tomorrow and then Donnington on the the 6th June.
It would be nice if I could make these mods before I do too much more damage ... can you remind me of what you have done ?
Tnx,
Cx.
I have just done the rear adjustable monoball toe links , shims in total 18mm up front, and an extra 5mm in the rear.
Tim has also had the CUP LCA which are pictured on top of the shims and toe links.
All straight forward stuff.
I imo hit the limit for a road use car and caster issues, I think Tim has gone a bit more extreame than my settings.
but he lives on track ;-)
As Tim has said the "transformation" in feel alone is quite big, the car feels proper GT now
Tim has also had the CUP LCA which are pictured on top of the shims and toe links.
All straight forward stuff.
I imo hit the limit for a road use car and caster issues, I think Tim has gone a bit more extreame than my settings.
but he lives on track ;-)
As Tim has said the "transformation" in feel alone is quite big, the car feels proper GT now
Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 13th May 18:30
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