GT4 on track

[Sandy59]

So talking about GT4s on track, has anyone changed the aero settings by adjusting the wing and removing the 2 plastic covers under the front ??
I was reading a few of the US guys have, but can't really work out if it actually achieved anything in the scheme of things.
Someone mentioned he thought the front brake cooling was better with the front covers removed ??

[APOLO1]

Sandy59 said:

So talking about GT4s on track, has anyone changed the aero settings by adjusting the wing and removing the 2 plastic covers under the front ??
I was reading a few of the US guys have, but can't really work out if it actually achieved anything in the scheme of things.
Someone mentioned he thought the front brake cooling was better with the front covers removed ??

I have tired this, its OK, but if you set the rear wing in max DF mode, you need to open up the brake ducts, or the front end becomes very light. Set like this it also knocks 15mph from the top speed....

[APOLO1]

Steve Rance said:

Nope, if you in the Lava RS you were fine. No problems at all. looked realy nice and planted. Lots of grunt

Good, was not sure if I held you up, always happy to move over and learn a better line.
Yes it was running fine thank you, seem to have found the sweet spot for the GEO for my level. Its like a fair ground ride round Club corner,and few others just grips like its on rails. Feels more than the 500bhp at the top of rev range now.

[Sandy59]

APOLO1 said:

I have tired this, its OK, but if you set the rear wing in max DF mode, you need to open up the brake ducts, or the front end becomes very light. Set like this it also knocks 15mph from the top speed....

Sounds like it does make a noticeable difference then, thanks.

[Porsche911R]

Sandy59 said:

So talking about GT4s on track, has anyone changed the aero settings by adjusting the wing and removing the 2 plastic covers under the front ??
I was reading a few of the US guys have, but can't really work out if it actually achieved anything in the scheme of things.
Someone mentioned he thought the front brake cooling was better with the front covers removed ??

Don't seem worth doing imo unless you do lots of tracks with 120mph+ sweapers in them.

ALso seems to promote more push and understeer at lower speeds ! As do the larger PCCB's

I'll take the top speed and less under steer thanks + more mpg's :-)

[Sandy59]

Porsche911R said:

Don't seem worth doing imo unless you do lots of tracks with 120mph+ sweapers in them.

ALso seems to promote more push and understeer at lower speeds ! As do the larger PCCB's

I'll take the top speed and less under steer thanks + more mpg's :-)

I agree probably not worth messing with TBH, I'm probably not a fast enough track driver to notice much difference anyway TBH.

[jackwood]

Can't you do just the front aero mod to get more front end downforce?

[LaSource]

Porsche911R said:

Not sure why the disappointment wearing the edges on the tyres on a stock geo and expected more than 4 track days !!

I took my Stock R on track and bent the tread blocks after 5 laps so went home.

IF you track a GT4 get a geo done , or any car for that matter, it's simples ;-)#

All this "you can drive round it" bks is well bks :-)

You are conflating two topics....you can drive around stock geo to get car to apex but tyre wear will still be high.

However yes, ultimately a better geo for track use is even better for performance, tyre longevity, and feedback. As you know well, getting a better geo on the GT4 is not easy as Porsche gave us an adjustable car with very little room for adjustment (duh!). Already had a failed geo attempt...proper one coming in a fortnight...

[Steve Rance]

APOLO1 said:

Good, was not sure if I held you up, always happy to move over and learn a better line.
Yes it was running fine thank you, seem to have found the sweet spot for the GEO for my level. Its like a fair ground ride round Club corner,and few others just grips like its on rails. Feels more than the 500bhp at the top of rev range now.

A corner or so is ok. You can tell by the body language of the car/driver if he or she has seen you. It's when they clearly haven't that it gets frustrating - especially in a Cup as the closing speeds are so great

[BubblesNW]

Steve Rance said:

A corner or so is ok. You can tell by the body language of the car/driver if he or she has seen you. It's when they clearly haven't that it gets frustrating - especially in a Cup as the closing speeds are so great

Had a similarly frustrating experience at Oulton a few weeks ago where a Nissan GTR was holding myself in a GT4 and a fairly rapid Caterfield up on braking and corner speeds but making up a little on the straights. After a whole lap I let the 7 past and the GTR let him through almost immediately then proceeded to hold me up again. Maybe it's an ego thing as the GT4 isn't a proper Porsche.....

[9e 28]

Steve Rance said:

APOLO1 said:

Good, was not sure if I held you up, always happy to move over and learn a better line.
Yes it was running fine thank you, seem to have found the sweet spot for the GEO for my level. Its like a fair ground ride round Club corner,and few others just grips like its on rails. Feels more than the 500bhp at the top of rev range now.

A corner or so is ok. You can tell by the body language of the car/driver if he or she has seen you. It's when they clearly haven't that it gets frustrating - especially in a Cup as the closing speeds are so great

I think this may perhaps continue to be a real issue for you in a Cup car on slicks. Its maybe too quick to be on track with road cars and less experienced drivers?

[Porsche911R]

Ban slicks on track days imo

another reason I got fed up with track days were all the race cars testing on them with slicks on and out braking you into bends ON TRACK DAYS !!!

[Jeweller70]

Blame the TDO not the race cars, sure incorrect overtaking is unacceptable.

I drive both and its equally frustrating, no fault of either driver just should not be on track at the same time IMV. Its tough to get track time and test days don't make as much as outsourcing to a TDO.

Just avoid tracks the week before a big race weekend or accept you will be in mixed traffic.

[isaldiri]

personally i find the quick race cars with slicks are much better behaved than most of the rest of the field as they are generally driven by pretty competent people who know what they are doing. Don't see the problem with them as long as you're not the only road car in a field of challenge/cup type cars. It's not that difficult to move over if a car appears in your mirrors anyway. Generally the most trouble one has is overtaking powerful road cars when they are ungodly slow on corners and into braking but still plant their foot down on straights.

[Porsche911R]

isaldiri said:

personally i find the quick race cars with slicks are much better behaved than most of the rest of the field as they are generally driven by pretty competent people who know what they are doing. Don't see the problem with them as long as you're not the only road car in a field of challenge/cup type cars. It's not that difficult to move over if a car appears in your mirrors anyway. Generally the most trouble one has is overtaking powerful road cars when they are ungodly slow on corners and into braking but still plant their foot down on straights.

I find it much worse and the cars are so fast you look in the mirrors more than you would like as you see them closing up and have to keep a sharp eye on them esp into corners they might cut you up on !!, they follow you 2" from your bumper and as I say seem to think they own the track, they are racers after all, but I think they forget it's a track day and not a test day.

I hate race cars on track days.

[Steve Rance]

Porsche911R said:

I find it much worse and the cars are so fast you look in the mirrors more than you would like as you see them closing up and have to keep a sharp eye on them esp into corners they might cut you up on !!, they follow you 2" from your bumper and as I say seem to think they own the track, they are racers after all, but I think they forget it's a track day and not a test day.

I hate race cars on track days.

Until the MSA sort themselves out and start offering a realistic number of test days run on a realistic format you better get used to them. As said earlier, a well driven race by an experienced driver at a track day is far less of a potential problem than a big GT car or radical driven by an idiot. Speaking from personal experience, it is better to make sure that the driver in front of you knows tht you are there and filling the rear mirror will draw his eye to it. For me, it is certainly not about monstering out of the way, its entirely about making sure that he or she knoes you are there.

Racing cars are not the issue at track days the colsing speeds between my 997 Cup and your GT4 are no greater than your GT4 and a Golf GTi. It's how all cars are driven that is important. i'd much rather share a circuit with experienced racng drivers than in experienced track drivers.

We all need to learn to accommodate each other

[Porsche911R]

the test day/ track day people though still seem to also time their laps !!!

I have seen guys timing race cars on track days, so hence they make test day out braking maneuvers on track days !!

I don't mind race cars on track days, I don't like race cars 2" from my bumper for 3 bends and I don't like them out braking me into a bend as they WILL NOT wait for that next straight, and I don't like the way they time the laps.
I know a car is behind me and maybe will have to STAY behind me for the next 3 bends, having a CUP car 2" off my bumper for the next 3 bends is NOT on imo. !!!!

Like wise yes sharing days with Saxo's and Golfs is a pitter also in a GT car, hence I am not really looking forward to the 6th june and the sort of cars which goto those days.

I find if you stick to PCGB day, or LOT days or Book a track days people can drive quite well and the cars are a muchness and you get 4 or 5 clean laps in.
or can have a battle with like minded powerful cars.

goto a Javelin day like the one booked for the GT4 possy and you share it with golfs, Mx5's and Honda's which will mean no clean laps I guess.

cheap days seem to attract slower cheaper cars so you save £40 but share the track with more slower cars and get no fast laps in.
Not knocking those cars, those guys are having fun, but turning up in a GT car at one = less fun imo.

Again I gave up track days 4 or 5 years a go really, just because they were not that much fun in the end, I now select the ODD day at Spa or the odd LOT day or PCGB day and while I pay a bit more I get a lot more from them enjoyment wise.

which to me means at least some clear laps, and a battle with like for like powered cars.

I have been to track days and sat behind a line of 20 cars esp in the AM sessions, or the 1st 2 hours is a load of black and red flags !!!

ie a lot of drifting nutters and a lot of spinners !!!

go back 15 years and track days were just fun, no noobies, no GTR nutters, no race cars, track days were a small group of people which on the whole could drive ok. the good times ;-)

now the Track day owners will say, all those on their 1st track day hands up and when 1/2 the group put the hands up you know it's going to be a bad day lol

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 6th May 11:52

[Trev450]

Steve Rance said:

Porsche911R said:

I find it much worse and the cars are so fast you look in the mirrors more than you would like as you see them closing up and have to keep a sharp eye on them esp into corners they might cut you up on !!, they follow you 2" from your bumper and as I say seem to think they own the track, they are racers after all, but I think they forget it's a track day and not a test day.

I hate race cars on track days.

Until the MSA sort themselves out and start offering a realistic number of test days run on a realistic format you better get used to them. As said earlier, a well driven race by an experienced driver at a track day is far less of a potential problem than a big GT car or radical driven by an idiot. Speaking from personal experience, it is better to make sure that the driver in front of you knows tht you are there and filling the rear mirror will draw his eye to it. For me, it is certainly not about monstering out of the way, its entirely about making sure that he or she knoes you are there.

Racing cars are not the issue at track days the colsing speeds between my 997 Cup and your GT4 are no greater than your GT4 and a Golf GTi. It's how all cars are driven that is important. i'd much rather share a circuit with experienced racng drivers than in experienced track drivers.

We all need to learn to accommodate each other

I have to agree. I did a track day at Silverstone GP last year and it wasn't until I turned up that I was informed that the Brit GT's had a test session the following day, but had decided to use the track day as an additional data gathering session. They were absolutely no problem whatsoever despite being in massively quicker machinery, and despite keeping an eye on my mirrors more than usual, even when they did appear out of nowhere, were not at all aggresive.

[Steve Rance]

Porsche911R said:

the test day/ track day people though still seem to also time their laps !!!

I have seen guys timing race cars on track days, so hence they make test day out braking maneuvers on track days !!

I don't mind race cars on track days, I don't like race cars 2" from my bumper for 3 bends and I don't like them out braking me into a bend as they WILL NOT wait for that next straight, and I don't like the way they time the laps.
I know a car is behind me and maybe will have to STAY behind me for the next 3 bends, having a CUP car 2" off my bumper for the next 3 bends is NOT on imo. !!!!

Like wise yes sharing days with Saxo's and Golfs is a pitter also in a GT car, hence I am not really looking forward to the 6th june and the sort of cars which goto those days.

I find if you stick to PCGB day, or LOT days or Book a track days people can drive quite well and the cars are a muchness and you get 4 or 5 clean laps in.
or can have a battle with like minded powerful cars.

goto a Javelin day like the one booked for the GT4 possy and you share it with golfs, Mx5's and Honda's which will mean no clean laps I guess.

cheap days seem to attract slower cheaper cars so you save £40 but share the track with more slower cars and get no fast laps in.
Not knocking those cars, those guys are having fun, but turning up in a GT car at one = less fun imo.

Again I gave up track days 4 or 5 years a go really, just because they were not that much fun in the end, I now select the ODD day at Spa or the odd LOT day or PCGB day and while I pay a bit more I get a lot more from them enjoyment wise.

which to me means at least some clear laps, and a battle with like for like powered cars.

I have been to track days and sat behind a line of 20 cars esp in the AM sessions, or the 1st 2 hours is a load of black and red flags !!!

ie a lot of drifting nutters and a lot of spinners !!!

go back 15 years and track days were just fun, no noobies, no GTR nutters, no race cars, track days were a small group of people which on the whole could drive ok. the good times ;-)

now the Track day owners will say, all those on their 1st track day hands up and when 1/2 the group put the hands up you know it's going to be a bad day lol

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 6th May 11:52

No race team that knows what its doing will go to a track day for pace testing. They know that they won't get clear laps. They will go for bedding in, seat time and familiarisation because the chances are that will be the only oportunity that they will have before the next race at that circuit because there will be no testing. They will also know that using fresh rubber at a track day for optimum pace is a waste of time and budget. It is generally track day drivers that have an obsession with timing themselves. Racing drivers already know pretty much how quick they are and are looking for tenths not seconds - certainly not at track days.

There is an etiquette that decent experienced drivers will always abide by when sharing any track with other drivers no matter what they are driving. One isnt expecting other cars to wait for 3 corners before he gets out of the way I may add.

It is not racing cars and racing drivers that pose a problem at track days, it is ANY driver who is driving a vehicle beyond his or her capabilities.

[isaldiri]

Porsche911R said:

Lots of nonsense plus......

I know a car is behind me and maybe will have to STAY behind me for the next 3 bends, having a CUP car 2" off my bumper for the next 3 bends is NOT on imo. !!!!

You have no reason to keep a faster car behind you for 3 corners unless you are particularly trying to be difficult which possibly isn't a surprise either. It really is not difficult to signal to allow a faster car to pass even outside of a straight and you should be keeping an eye on your mirrors anyway.

To add to what Steve said, the worst drivers on trackdays are those driving beyond their capabilities but pretty close behind are those with an entitlement complex like you have shown per your post. Numbers of cars and driving standards are the things that matter on trackdays not types of machinery.