911R VS 991 GT3 RS. 'Jack Olsen drives them BTB' article
Discussion
Thanks for the link.
But what a terrible review. Sounds like lines AP would have asked him to say, PDK is so fast why bother with the manual etc etc That's missing the point entirely.
And for him to go on to say about the 911R 'I was immediately transported to the feeling of my own 1972 911' is complete tosh - the two can't be anything like the same, or give you the same feeling. Sounds like marketing nonesense again. (I know he doesn't work for Porsche)
They should have got Monkey Harris to do a proper review. That would have been 'Mega'
But what a terrible review. Sounds like lines AP would have asked him to say, PDK is so fast why bother with the manual etc etc That's missing the point entirely.
And for him to go on to say about the 911R 'I was immediately transported to the feeling of my own 1972 911' is complete tosh - the two can't be anything like the same, or give you the same feeling. Sounds like marketing nonesense again. (I know he doesn't work for Porsche)
They should have got Monkey Harris to do a proper review. That would have been 'Mega'
I found it to be a pretty balance review.
Jack Olsen said....
For me, the 911R came into its own when I was twisting through the narrow road that leads to the Col d’Aspin summit in France. With 500 hp and the manual gearbox, the experience of blasting up the big hill plastered a smile on my face from bottom to top. Winding through the gears felt just right on the public road (which the police had blocked off for me, thankfully). And while I might have been able to get up the hill faster in a GT3 RS, the experience of being able to skip over undulations in the asphalt and drive with that sensation that you’re ‘driving with the rear wheels’ felt exactly right in the 911R. I was immediately transported to the feeling of my own 1972 911 on the same kinds of roads in southern California. You start to feel like you’re controlling the thing with your hips – left, right, left, right – all the while using the 911R’s incredible power to keep accelerating in defiance of all good sense (and gravity). As a canyon carver, the 911R hits exactly the right mark.
Jack Olsen said....
For me, the 911R came into its own when I was twisting through the narrow road that leads to the Col d’Aspin summit in France. With 500 hp and the manual gearbox, the experience of blasting up the big hill plastered a smile on my face from bottom to top. Winding through the gears felt just right on the public road (which the police had blocked off for me, thankfully). And while I might have been able to get up the hill faster in a GT3 RS, the experience of being able to skip over undulations in the asphalt and drive with that sensation that you’re ‘driving with the rear wheels’ felt exactly right in the 911R. I was immediately transported to the feeling of my own 1972 911 on the same kinds of roads in southern California. You start to feel like you’re controlling the thing with your hips – left, right, left, right – all the while using the 911R’s incredible power to keep accelerating in defiance of all good sense (and gravity). As a canyon carver, the 911R hits exactly the right mark.
Mousem40 said:
They should have got Monkey Harris to do a proper review. That would have been 'Mega'
I hope he does a back-to-back. In Harris we trust.We already know the result though don't we ? I do not even need to try the R, I know I would love it more even without seeing in in the flesh.
Strange thing is car love.
Balanced and unbiased review in my opinion. Personally as an RS owner I prefer PDK as I believe that driving through our congested cities and roads it is so much easier to go automatic. Once out on faster roads I love using the paddles though in PDK sport the car is even faster. I think that if you lived on the borders of rural Wales and Scotland the R might be the better choice. You pays your money and takes your choice, though both models are sold out anyway .
robgt3 said:
Balanced and unbiased review in my opinion. Personally as an RS owner I prefer PDK as I believe that driving through our congested cities and roads it is so much easier to go automatic. Once out on faster roads I love using the paddles though in PDK sport the car is even faster. I think that if you lived on the borders of rural Wales and Scotland the R might be the better choice. You pays your money and takes your choice, though both models are sold out anyway .
A significant part of the raison d'être of the 911R is its manual gearbox. You wouldn't buy one wishing it had a PDK box regardless of how brilliant it might be. You buy it because it has a manual gearbox. The car is meant to be a purist's driving car without wings and auto boxes. So for him to say he wasn't that bothered about the manual because the PDK box is so fast and his gear changes were so slow is utterly missing the point. Gear changes are slower than PDK changes, quite obviously, why he's surprised and disenchanted by this is odd. Ergo he's not looking for a purist's car, he's looking for a car with quick changes, but then he compares it to his 1972 911 (in a good way) sense?
He's had a rare chance to drive the 2 most desirable cars in Porsche's lineup and that's all he can come up with? Pretty hopeless really
LordHaveMurci said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
And you end up looking a bit 'try hard' in the process - oh dear!I raced a Cayman S in the PCChampinship three seasons ago. My first experience on slicks and as a mid to lower thirds runner I was maxing out at 1.4 g lateral. My last track day at Oulton park (the RS day) showed G forces on Pilot Super Sports higher than this, with lateral g significantly higher then braking maximum g -- as might be expected with earo down force and without stamping on the brakes at speed ....
If 100Kg's at 100mph, what would this be worth in terms of extra grip at the very front and back of the car ?
Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 30th April 09:23
Nobody can deny that decent aero has a significant effect on a track with long fast sweeping corners. Of course, you have to take into account the drag etc. Nothing is free.
The point is that its fairly ineffective on the road unless you are driving at very naughty speeds and even then, I am not sure you would notice.
The point is that its fairly ineffective on the road unless you are driving at very naughty speeds and even then, I am not sure you would notice.
Last year I had a 1972 911. I went to Wales with some friends, two in old 911s and one in a 991 GT3. I had a short drive in the GT3 over some really good roads. It was a lovely thing but in no way was it remotely like my car so I find a comparison between a modern and old 911 rather odd. The GT3 was very nice but for driving fun I much preferred my car. Over the twisty roads I didn't have a problem keeping up either. Biggest advantage of the GT3 was power to overtake, although even there my car being much smaller and narrower that helped give me a bigger margin when overtaking.
I do think the new R looks very nice. I'd probably give a kidney to get a proper, original R
I do think the new R looks very nice. I'd probably give a kidney to get a proper, original R
Esceptico said:
Last year I had a 1972 911. I went to Wales with some friends, two in old 911s and one in a 991 GT3. I had a short drive in the GT3 over some really good roads. It was a lovely thing but in no way was it remotely like my car so I find a comparison between a modern and old 911 rather odd. The GT3 was very nice but for driving fun I much preferred my car. Over the twisty roads I didn't have a problem keeping up either. Biggest advantage of the GT3 was power to overtake, although even there my car being much smaller and narrower that helped give me a bigger margin when overtaking.
I do think the new R looks very nice. I'd probably give a kidney to get a proper, original R
On our trip ?I do think the new R looks very nice. I'd probably give a kidney to get a proper, original R
I appreciate the input on the article, guys. That write-up was my first piece of automotive journalism, so I'm interested in how people saw it. If anyone has any questions about the two cars that I didn't touch on, please ask and I'll answer here.
In re-reading the article, I see that it's worded in a way that indicates I didn't like the 6-speed on the track. That's just a lack of clarity on my part. I really like this new 6-speed box they've come up with. I think the gearing might be a little lower than the Carrera 7-speed -- I'm not sure, though, since the top speed is still pretty high. But it felt different to me. Especially compared to the 1977 915 box that's in my '72, it's a joy to shift. My point was only that on a track -- especially while learning a new track -- the PDK was so effortless that you didn't really need to think about your shifting very much at all. It's just click-click-click, as you need it, when you need it.
And when I say the 911R reminded me of my 72 (which is a long day's journey from a stock '72), I only mean that relative to the GT3 RS, which felt very stable and planted -- which is not what the early cars are known for.
Here's a clip with cell phone footage of the day we were driving in France. I think the engine sound here is a little more realistic than what you see in Porsche's official videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmbLc-Vw48
For reference on my particular car, I think the GT3 RS would be quicker around my home track than my 72 911. I think the 911R would be a touch slower, precisely because of the lack of aero. Here's a side-by-side clip of my old car and a pro driver setting his best time in a 991 GT3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGAHwzz_RgA
In re-reading the article, I see that it's worded in a way that indicates I didn't like the 6-speed on the track. That's just a lack of clarity on my part. I really like this new 6-speed box they've come up with. I think the gearing might be a little lower than the Carrera 7-speed -- I'm not sure, though, since the top speed is still pretty high. But it felt different to me. Especially compared to the 1977 915 box that's in my '72, it's a joy to shift. My point was only that on a track -- especially while learning a new track -- the PDK was so effortless that you didn't really need to think about your shifting very much at all. It's just click-click-click, as you need it, when you need it.
And when I say the 911R reminded me of my 72 (which is a long day's journey from a stock '72), I only mean that relative to the GT3 RS, which felt very stable and planted -- which is not what the early cars are known for.
Here's a clip with cell phone footage of the day we were driving in France. I think the engine sound here is a little more realistic than what you see in Porsche's official videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmbLc-Vw48
For reference on my particular car, I think the GT3 RS would be quicker around my home track than my 72 911. I think the 911R would be a touch slower, precisely because of the lack of aero. Here's a side-by-side clip of my old car and a pro driver setting his best time in a 991 GT3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGAHwzz_RgA
Jack Olsen said:
I appreciate the input on the article, guys. That write-up was my first piece of automotive journalism, so I'm interested in how people saw it. If anyone has any questions about the two cars that I didn't touch on, please ask and I'll answer here.
In re-reading the article, I see that it's worded in a way that indicates I didn't like the 6-speed on the track. That's just a lack of clarity on my part. I really like this new 6-speed box they've come up with. I think the gearing might be a little lower than the Carrera 7-speed -- I'm not sure, though, since the top speed is still pretty high. But it felt different to me. Especially compared to the 1977 915 box that's in my '72, it's a joy to shift. My point was only that on a track -- especially while learning a new track -- the PDK was so effortless that you didn't really need to think about your shifting very much at all. It's just click-click-click, as you need it, when you need it.
And when I say the 911R reminded me of my 72 (which is a long day's journey from a stock '72), I only mean that relative to the GT3 RS, which felt very stable and planted -- which is not what the early cars are known for.
Here's a clip with cell phone footage of the day we were driving in France. I think the engine sound here is a little more realistic than what you see in Porsche's official videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmbLc-Vw48
For reference on my particular car, I think the GT3 RS would be quicker around my home track than my 72 911. I think the 911R would be a touch slower, precisely because of the lack of aero. Here's a side-by-side clip of my old car and a pro driver setting his best time in a 991 GT3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGAHwzz_RgA
Thanks for the post / clips : interesting stuff In re-reading the article, I see that it's worded in a way that indicates I didn't like the 6-speed on the track. That's just a lack of clarity on my part. I really like this new 6-speed box they've come up with. I think the gearing might be a little lower than the Carrera 7-speed -- I'm not sure, though, since the top speed is still pretty high. But it felt different to me. Especially compared to the 1977 915 box that's in my '72, it's a joy to shift. My point was only that on a track -- especially while learning a new track -- the PDK was so effortless that you didn't really need to think about your shifting very much at all. It's just click-click-click, as you need it, when you need it.
And when I say the 911R reminded me of my 72 (which is a long day's journey from a stock '72), I only mean that relative to the GT3 RS, which felt very stable and planted -- which is not what the early cars are known for.
Here's a clip with cell phone footage of the day we were driving in France. I think the engine sound here is a little more realistic than what you see in Porsche's official videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmbLc-Vw48
For reference on my particular car, I think the GT3 RS would be quicker around my home track than my 72 911. I think the 911R would be a touch slower, precisely because of the lack of aero. Here's a side-by-side clip of my old car and a pro driver setting his best time in a 991 GT3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGAHwzz_RgA
monthefish said:
mollytherocker said:
Nobody can deny that decent aero has a significant effect on a track with long fast sweeping corners. Of course, you have to take into account the drag etc. Nothing is free.
You can reduce lift without increasing drag.
k off rear wing! Thanks.
It's true that there are a lot of no-penalty (or low-penalty) ways to reduce lift (or even produce downforce) without too much drag. A spoiler is an easy one -- the old-school ducktail reduced both lift and drag. But the better stuff -- a splitter, side curtains and underbody modifications with a functional diffuser -- are impractical on a car that has to go over speed bumps (you call them sleeping policemen?).
On my own car, my solution is to bold on a splitter and a wing for track days. I was testing a new, larger wing at Willow Springs yesterday. It's still on the car today because I'm modifying the uprights, which were bending under the pressure at high speeds. Here it is in the garage this evening. It makes me glad the thing comes off with four bolts.
It's true that there are a lot of no-penalty (or low-penalty) ways to reduce lift (or even produce downforce) without too much drag. A spoiler is an easy one -- the old-school ducktail reduced both lift and drag. But the better stuff -- a splitter, side curtains and underbody modifications with a functional diffuser -- are impractical on a car that has to go over speed bumps (you call them sleeping policemen?).
On my own car, my solution is to bold on a splitter and a wing for track days. I was testing a new, larger wing at Willow Springs yesterday. It's still on the car today because I'm modifying the uprights, which were bending under the pressure at high speeds. Here it is in the garage this evening. It makes me glad the thing comes off with four bolts.
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