Why has this Zanzibar 996 GT3 not sold?

[Mousem40]

EGTE said:

I meant air-cooled.

I already have a 996 C2 and could easily afford a GT3 but cannot justify 4 times the price of a C2 (which is also a great car).

Even you admit it's over-priced, so I don't understand why you disagreed so indignantly beforehand.

I didn't mean to single you out but I keep reading people mention how car X used to cost Y therefore I'm waiting for it to go back to X (or thereabouts) as it's overpriced. That's what I'm arguing about. It's nonesense. It won't go back there. I gave the 2.7RS 'bubble' as an example, I'm not saying you care about 2.7RS' or any other air-cooled car.

I said the days of non story non dealer bid 996GT3s being in the £40-50k range is gone. That doesn't mean any GT3 at any price is fair value (hence why I think this leggy car is slightly overpriced - say £5k)

I absolutely agree, in the way you're looking at it you can't justify a GT3, it's not 4 times a better car than yours. But that's not how car prices work unfortunately. A 250GTO is not 500 times a better car than a GT3, in fact it's more likely worse. Does that mean the bottom should fall out of that market too?

Just because a car is priced higher than it was last year that doesn't intrinsically mean it's in a bubble that has to correct. Otherwise no old cars would ever go up in the long run. It's just flawed logic.

[ras62]

Loving some of the descriptions used to support one argument over another but purleez, describing a 17 year old car that's averaged 4k miles per year as leggy is surely worth a giggle. Its not a British Leyland A series engine we're talking about.

[Mousem40]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Maybe so, but lots of people are hoping for this 'black swan' event and sitting on the sidelines apportioning too high a probability of it happening and missing out altogether. IMO obviously. The previous point I was making is that the car has its own cache, it has reason to appreciate, it's not just a meaningless, based on nothing, Tulipmania type bubble.

We can only know if it is a bubble after the event. We are all just guessing. Some cars that have little cache that have ridden the wave will be first to go in a downturn. The more desirable cars (desirable for whatever reason) will be less affected. I've given evidence to support the GT3 as being a desireable car, which should minimise it's downside risk.

[monthefish]

EGTE said:

I already have a 996 C2 and could easily afford a GT3 but cannot justify 4 times the price of a C2 (which is also a great car).

Using the Carerra2/4 as a reference point, GT3 prices are completely ridiculous. But then again, 'ridiculous' could be used to describe most of the used porsche market.

[Budflicker]

I've got to agree that once people buying them as an investment or safer than money in the bank leave the market for them the 996 GT3 will fall off. They aren't really everyone's cup of tea to either look at or drive, the 997 is better looking and easier to drive, which for many makes it better.

I've had a 997 GT which was epic and I'd buy a 996 for the driving experiance tomorrow if they were £40-£45k but at this level it's too inflated, they just aren't selling anymore, the same cars have been for sale for months, in fact the only ones that' have sold that I know of recently are the other 911v car which was dropped to £56k and Slippydiff sold his very special red 996.1 CS, but that was a really special example.

Now I suppose if most of them are SOR then the dealers are happy to try and wait it out but if the same cars are still for sale come September expect to see reductions until they start to sell which will further put people off buying in case they buy too soon on the downward curve.

Or they might all magically sell at top money?

Edit to add that looking through the classifieds you can see the dealers advertising lots of Pork of many types as investment quality or collectors piece car and you can't blame them for trying to maximise profits, then of course owners of the vehicles will defend why their car is now worth two or three times what they paid for it a few years back.

It's all a confidence trick.

The value for money in terms of car is at the 996 C2/C4/C4S and 987 Cayman S end of things.

Edited by Budflicker on Tuesday 3rd May 20:17

[ChrisW.]

Until their engines go pop. And they do.

[mollytherocker]

ras62 said:

Loving some of the descriptions used to support one argument over another but purleez, describing a 17 year old car that's averaged 4k miles per year as leggy is surely worth a giggle. Its not a British Leyland A series engine we're talking about.

I totally agree, and its why I asked whether it was the mileage.

The mileage thing is one of the biggest red herrings in valuing and appriasing a car. I have no doubt that this GT3 is in fabulous condition.

But the 'low mileage' effect will not abate. Buyers continue to add far too much weight to its importance.

However, because of this fact, everyone else like me HAS to take it into account when valuing. Even if they plan to NEVER sell.

[Mousem40]

Budflicker said:

I've had a 997 GT which was epic and I'd buy a 996 for the driving experiance tomorrow if they were £40-£45k but at this level it's too inflated, they just aren't selling anymore, the same cars have been for sale for months, in fact the only ones that' have sold that I know of recently are the other 911v car which was dropped to £56k and Slippydiff sold his very special red 996.1 CS, but that was a really special example.

Edited by Budflicker on Tuesday 3rd May 20:17

You can add my old car which sold a week ago at £59.9 (54k mile comfort 6.2) and my friends 29k 6.2 CS which sold for £75k last month.

[Budflicker]

Mousem40 said:

You can add my old car which sold a week ago at £59.9 (54k mile comfort 6.2) and my friends 29k 6.2 CS which sold for £75k last month.

Phew, I wouldn't fancy having £75k in a 996 at the moment, but what do any of us really know for certain, let's come back to this in a year and see what's happened.

[mollytherocker]

Budflicker said:

Phew, I wouldn't fancy having £75k in a 996 at the moment, but what do any of us really know for certain, let's come back to this in a year and see what's happened.

Indeed, but surely the worst case scenario is better than a new 991? I guess we shall see!

[majordad]

A lot of rubbish being posted here. The cost of a car is what the market will pay now, and prices remain strong. I'm not talking about future values but if you want a GT3 of any type NOW you will pay the price. The other alternative is to play with your keyboard.

[arcticGT]

I guess ultimately value for money is a subjective thing ?

[lemmingjames]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why buy a GT4 @ £95k when a normal Cayman will do the same job just a little bit more slowly, why buy a turbo s when a turbo is just as good and so on

[MDL111]

The whole "when the engine goes pop" argument is less and less important the older cars get imo- every car, even a GT3 will eventually need an engine rebuild if it is used like intended. I am fully onboard with saying the engine is much more special - it is imo and that is why I would want a gt3 not a c2, but both will have to be rebuilt eventually (and the gt3 rebuild will likely cost more I guess

[Budflicker]

Actually this one is £103,000 and it's left hand drive

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...


Small world...

[mollytherocker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Indeed, and yet there are seemingly enough people who will pay it, thus the market position. Its the same premium with other Porsches too, eg;

911S vs 2.7RS
911 vs 911CS
964C2 vs RS
993C2 vs RS

Is there any logic to it? Well, there must be! Is an ugly old painting worth £10m? Seemingly!

A Capri 280 just failed to hit its reserve yesterday on ebay at £33k! Work that out!

[Budflicker]

I know

Still any advertising is good advertising as they say, and the Virgin car now looks a bargain

I would like to say that despite me agreeing that GT3 pricing is crazy at the moment and that the Virgin car is too much money, they really are a good dealer to buy from and the prep work and service you get is 1st class whatever car you buy from them.

[Slippydiff]

My source is impeccable, and informs me there has been serious interest in the car at the asking price.
As I said on here recently (having sold my GR Mk 1 Clubsport 2-3 months ago) there's some froth in the market currently.
The frothier examples need their prices dropped by £10k, the less frothy, £5k.
On the basis of what my car sold for privately, this car from 911V is reasonably priced (not cheap I grant you, but reasonable). Be aware there's a lot of dogs out there, and they're not cheap to bring back up to scratch properly.
This car wanted for nothing under it's former long term owner, and it shows.

My guess is that those saying they're not worth the money, probably haven't owned and driven one ... But the same detractors were most likely trotting out the same. baloney when the 964 RS was £20k and a C2 was £10k, no doubt they said the same of the 964RS when it was £30k, £50k, £75k and £100k ...

In short, far too many internet experts who've never driven one (let alone owned one) on here. May I suggest the detractors try putting their money where their mouths are, buy a Mk 1, drive it for the next 3-5 years and come back and try telling us owners/former owners, they're not worth the money.

[ChrisW.]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think they are a fabulous drive.

In fact, having owned most things in the most exciting Porsche categories between 1975 and 2007 --- and then Cayman after that --- and having driven on circuit most of the rest, I'm buying back into a 996 GT3 Gen 1 CS RHD --- and it is expensive.

My driver / collector vote goes to Mr Mezger and the first GT3 CS ...

[rubystone]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

And there's the rub. We speak the same language.