How times have changed....

[Mario149]

Picked up a 2005 E60 M5 today - V10, 100+ bhp/litre, revs out to 8,250rpm, max power at 7,750 rpm, max torque at 6,100 rpm
....in a saloon car for less than £25K. Dear god I hope someone at BMW was given a medal for signing off that decision!

Yet if I walk into a Porsche dealership with double the money tomorrow, the best newest sportscar offering I can come out with is a flat 4 turbo that's basically all done before the high end sensible family motoring car has even come fully on song.

Genuinely makes me quite sad where we've ended up in so short a time

Edited by Mario149 on Saturday 14th May 19:33

[Inverted]

Sad times. One of the reasons ive canceled my M2 order and decided to keep my high revving, terrible on fuel V8 M3. We wont see cars like these again.

[Phooey]

Welcome to the future. BMW don't even make an appealing 'Sports' car anymore (IMO). I had a 1M and a CSL last year - the CSL was BMW at it's best, the 1M after the initial new-car feeling bored the st out of me. It didn't last 6 months. I feel like BMW doesn't have an 'M' division anymore. At least Porsche can still produce 'GT' cars... fingers crossed they continue.

[Trev450]

Sign of the times unfortunately. I bet John Cooper never even considered putting a diesel in the Mini Cooper S. I'm just glad that I'm old enough to have owned and driven cars that weren't influenced by politics and the environment .

[csmith319]

Genuinely think the 2000 up until around 2012 feels like the last golden age of traditional motoring... look at what was on sale in 2005 onwards... Amazing. You could still buy large capacity engines which had reached a level of output that was akin to the most highly strung supercars from 10 years before but with reliability and JUST enough electronic safety nets...

I kinda celebrate that... It was never going to last but they manned to get these things into almost mainstream vehicles so there's now tons to buy secondhand, look after then, drive them... Never sell them.

Clearly we'll have new golden ages... But they will be different to what people wanted for the last 100 years, it ended with a bang!

[ORD]

That BMW engine is a masterpiece. There was no M5 Touring, though, was there? Saloon cars leave me cold.

[MDL111]

ORD said:

That BMW engine is a masterpiece. There was no M5 Touring, though, was there? Saloon cars leave me cold.

I think there was a touring, possibly not in the UK though

[wattsm666]

ORD said:

That BMW engine is a masterpiece. There was no M5 Touring, though, was there? Saloon cars leave me cold.

there was a touring, but not many in the uk

http://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-carpool/ph-...

[Mario149]

Yup, there is a touring, but we have an estate hack already and I couldn't face putting our dog in the shiny new car!

[MrBarry123]

ORD said:

That BMW engine is a masterpiece. There was no M5 Touring, though, was there? Saloon cars leave me cold.

I know it's not nice to criticise others for lack of automotive knowledge on here however I'm REALLY surprised you didn't know there was an estate version of the E60 M5!

[ORD]

MrBarry123 said:

ORD said:

That BMW engine is a masterpiece. There was no M5 Touring, though, was there? Saloon cars leave me cold.

I know it's not nice to criticise others for lack of automotive knowledge on here however I'm REALLY surprised you didn't know there was an estate version of the E60 M5!

I must have been thinking of the E90.
I'm not great on BMW numbers.

[SRT Hellcat]

It is a sign of the times Mario. One of the reasons I bought one of the last of the dinosaurs. A big supercharged V8 with over 700hp and 650ft lb of torque bone stock. Makes me smile every time I fire it up. For £1500 I can have a dynode 800hp at the rear wheels.

[MrBarry123]

ORD said:

I must have been thinking of the E90.
I'm not great on BMW numbers.

[dang2407]

Modern cars are faster and better in almost every way, but my god they are so boring....

[hondansx]

Sadly it's widespread and it's not going to get better i fear!

For me these are 4 cars for the purists garage:

- S1 Lotus Elise - cars like that won't be made again
- Clio 182 - last of the proper hot hatches, whilst still well equipped, seat 5 and relatively safe
- E90 V8 manual - perfectly good family car but with fantastic drivetrain
- 997 GT3 - i don't need to explain to all you lot...

All of the above for less than what you will pay for a new 991 GT3 RS right now.

[Mario149]

I *love* Clio 172s/182s. If I had space and a remote justification, I'd buy one. One day I'll get drunk enough and end up buying one on ebay at 2am

[MrBarry123]

hondansx said:

Sadly it's widespread and it's not going to get better i fear!

For me these are 4 cars for the purists garage:

- S1 Lotus Elise - cars like that won't be made again
- Clio 182 - last of the proper hot hatches, whilst still well equipped, seat 5 and relatively safe
- E90 V8 manual - perfectly good family car but with fantastic drivetrain
- 997 GT3 - i don't need to explain to all you lot...

All of the above for less than what you will pay for a new 991 GT3 RS right now.

I like your choices but would probably swap the M3 for a mint B7 RS4 Avant.

[Mario149]

MrBarry123 said:

I like your choices but would probably swap the M3 for a mint B7 RS4 Avant.

I reckon any NA M3, M5 or RS4 would be a good shout! Extar brownie points if it's an estate

[lemmingjames]

Honda Integra > Renault

[R1nur]

Phooey said:

Welcome to the future. BMW don't even make an appealing 'Sports' car anymore (IMO). I had a 1M and a CSL last year - the CSL was BMW at it's best, the 1M after the initial new-car feeling bored the st out of me. It didn't last 6 months. I feel like BMW doesn't have an 'M' division anymore. At least Porsche can still produce 'GT' cars... fingers crossed they continue.

I agree 100%.