Is a 997 turbo fast but boring to drive?
Discussion
I recently sold my 997.1 manual Coupe and replaced with a 991.1S pdk cabrio. The turbo was undeniably massively fast and handled magnificently. But, and it is a big Kim Kardashian sized but! I found it an anodyne experience. Just too uninvolving. It made no noise and therefore didn't stir the soul, or turn heads! The Carrera S cabrio is loud and shouty. Makes a fantastic din. Has more involving, though not necessarily better handling. Love the modernity of a 991 and because of the PSE, people give many second looks. Always causes a smile.
GR GT2RS said:
I actually own an old 964 Turbo .................. Now that's a seriously interesting car. What colour?
Re SC - all very confusing - I hear its remaining open , is this correct ? ............................. Yes it is remaining open as a full centre not just a satellite they are in the process of hiring new staff as most of the original team have gone to Wolverhampton. Do you realise what this might mean???
Re SC : Better allocations of GT cars ? - please pm me Re SC - all very confusing - I hear its remaining open , is this correct ? ............................. Yes it is remaining open as a full centre not just a satellite they are in the process of hiring new staff as most of the original team have gone to Wolverhampton. Do you realise what this might mean???
Edited by GR GT2RS on Monday 30th May 22:22
Gratuitous photo - Polar Silver - proper old school silver :
Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 31st May 08:50
M666LMJ said:
I recently sold my 997.1 manual Coupe and replaced with a 991.1S pdk cabrio. The turbo was undeniably massively fast and handled magnificently. But, and it is a big Kim Kardashian sized but! I found it an anodyne experience. Just too uninvolving. It made no noise and therefore didn't stir the soul, or turn heads! The Carrera S cabrio is loud and shouty. Makes a fantastic din. Has more involving, though not necessarily better handling. Love the modernity of a 991 and because of the PSE, people give many second looks. Always causes a smile.
You're right , I'd forgotten about the lack of noise - I think this was the thing that annoyed me the most - just never sounded like a super fast sports car : I've fitted a "swan neck" to the 964 Turbo - it sounds brilliant Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 31st May 08:54
https://youtu.be/OrZoiN2JHdg
This is us last year in Norway. An exciting drive no doubt. But, no drama. Fast cars need NOISE!
This is us last year in Norway. An exciting drive no doubt. But, no drama. Fast cars need NOISE!
Edited by M666LMJ on Tuesday 31st May 09:31
As said, I had a Turbo 'S' for three years, and bought it fully expecting that it wouldn't be as involving as a normally aspirated 911, but hoping that it would make a comfortable and relaxed long-distance GT. And, it was a formidable car in all conditions, but so would a C4'S'.
But what disappointed me was the rather dull engine sound, and the high levels of road noise, which were rather tiresome on a long trip (I had both Michelins and Bridgestones).
A drive in the 991, when it was launched, revealed far high levels of refinement.
But what disappointed me was the rather dull engine sound, and the high levels of road noise, which were rather tiresome on a long trip (I had both Michelins and Bridgestones).
A drive in the 991, when it was launched, revealed far high levels of refinement.
Yep, the NVH on the 997 is very poor compared to modern cars.
This is forgivable if the car is engaging and fun to drive, but the 997 Turbo isn't. It is a GT car; an autobahn stormer. I found that quite unforgivable. For some, simply owning a car with an evocative name is enough, but for me the Turbo did not live up to the hype. The N/A cars are more fun and sound 100x better.
This is forgivable if the car is engaging and fun to drive, but the 997 Turbo isn't. It is a GT car; an autobahn stormer. I found that quite unforgivable. For some, simply owning a car with an evocative name is enough, but for me the Turbo did not live up to the hype. The N/A cars are more fun and sound 100x better.
I had a 7.2 TurboS from new for a few years and it was a beautiful car. Black on black and specced with everything including TV etc. Drove it everywhere, did the Ring, a trackday, lots of fast road miles.
But it got sold because driving it at anything less than 8/10ths was no fun from the driver's seat. The overall car is too heavy and has too much grip to allow you to feel the car moving or on anything less than train tracks. The technology and sheer heft is brilliant flying over Schwedenkreutz at 160+ and letting the PTV/4wd/4ws settle the car and keep you pointing the right way; but on the road it equates to lifeless feel at 50mph, unless purposefully slinging the car around a public road. And then you ask - why do this in such a lovely car? A Ford Focus does the whole urban thing far better. The excessive weight of the Turbo is noticeable in the absence of speed, as 1700kg pummels the Tarmac and the 315 tyres rob you of knowing what is underfoot.
The Turbo's raison d'etre is cruising steadily at the ton-fifty down the outside lane of the Autobahn with PDLS beaming, as other obliging Eurodrivers acknowledge that you are king as they indicate right. The PDK is perfectly suited to keeping the muted engine whoosh as the twin VTGs spool. It is a lovely car to impress and take to nice occasions. It gets noble admiration over lesser 911s, but never the fanfare of the GT models.
Nice and very fast car, but not a lot of fun. If you want fun, get something at least 200kg lighter, and ideally with 3 pedals.
But it got sold because driving it at anything less than 8/10ths was no fun from the driver's seat. The overall car is too heavy and has too much grip to allow you to feel the car moving or on anything less than train tracks. The technology and sheer heft is brilliant flying over Schwedenkreutz at 160+ and letting the PTV/4wd/4ws settle the car and keep you pointing the right way; but on the road it equates to lifeless feel at 50mph, unless purposefully slinging the car around a public road. And then you ask - why do this in such a lovely car? A Ford Focus does the whole urban thing far better. The excessive weight of the Turbo is noticeable in the absence of speed, as 1700kg pummels the Tarmac and the 315 tyres rob you of knowing what is underfoot.
The Turbo's raison d'etre is cruising steadily at the ton-fifty down the outside lane of the Autobahn with PDLS beaming, as other obliging Eurodrivers acknowledge that you are king as they indicate right. The PDK is perfectly suited to keeping the muted engine whoosh as the twin VTGs spool. It is a lovely car to impress and take to nice occasions. It gets noble admiration over lesser 911s, but never the fanfare of the GT models.
Nice and very fast car, but not a lot of fun. If you want fun, get something at least 200kg lighter, and ideally with 3 pedals.
Can confirm fantastic fun. They do in fact reward precision and focus; raw, they are not, but the blunt instrument stereotype is undeserved. Surprisingly fun on track - the car is so over-engineered it eats the circuit. Easy to potter around in. The biggest thing is that they are so usable every day you will actually use it every day and that adds up to a lot of fun. Had a 997.2 PDK for six months, did 6k miles and P/X'd for a GT4. Would have kept the 911 too if I could have afforded. Almost the perfect complements to each other. I was lucky I had the chance to tick the turbo box due to a delay in my GT4 delivery - so glad I did, it was a tremendous experience and helped me appreciate some of the higher tech models in addition to the NA manual cars.
GR GT2RS said:
Spot on totally agree really is a most accomplished car. We all sing about GT3RS and similar but a 911 Turbo 997 and 991 are the most accomplished cars of the range for road use.
100% agree I owned a GT3 RS could not even drive it round my local town as it would not go over the speed bumps loved it but the Turbo S is so use able almost too so, every car I have owned or driven seems slow in comparison it's stupidly quick in a straight line and as I am no track driver it's more than enough performance forever for me.Objectively the best car I've ever owned, and I doubt I'll ever have a faster accelerating one. The trouble is, the ability to go from 0 to light speed in no time at all eventually loses its charm when it's done with so little drama. In fact no drama at all. I replaced mine with h a Maserati GT Sport, which is clearly worse in every measurable way, and yet I enjoy it much more.
If you can afford it, have one, you won't regret it - but you will get bored of it after a while.
If you can afford it, have one, you won't regret it - but you will get bored of it after a while.
Fast yes boring no
I have a manual first gen and the combination of hilarious on boost acceleration and the gruff, coarse nature of the Mezger engine gives it plenty of character, I like the fact the short shift is a bit recalcitrant until warm, and for a road car the grip and all weather 4wd are perfect.
Comparing it with a track focused GT car misses the point IMHO, and the only thing it lacks vs Carrera is the noise; more than made up for in all other ways for me at least
Great road cars
I have a manual first gen and the combination of hilarious on boost acceleration and the gruff, coarse nature of the Mezger engine gives it plenty of character, I like the fact the short shift is a bit recalcitrant until warm, and for a road car the grip and all weather 4wd are perfect.
Comparing it with a track focused GT car misses the point IMHO, and the only thing it lacks vs Carrera is the noise; more than made up for in all other ways for me at least
Great road cars
The Red Devil said:
Yes it cool to run a GT car but we are totally at the mercy of good Turbo drivers. Luckily most Turbo drivers are old guys just cruising.
I like that, and yes they are. I often find long trails of traffic behind me if I am going slow on a B road
despite numerous opportunities for people to pass, they just wont bloody dare pass a 911 T. Maybe they
like following the fat rear end, or maybe they suspect that a light prod of the throttle makes a fool out of the passing move.
Also if you cut someone up in a Turbo you rarely get a horn. Do it in any other car and the horn gets blasted.
People are in awe.....
I like that, and yes they are. I often find long trails of traffic behind me if I am going slow on a B road
despite numerous opportunities for people to pass, they just wont bloody dare pass a 911 T. Maybe they
like following the fat rear end, or maybe they suspect that a light prod of the throttle makes a fool out of the passing move.
Also if you cut someone up in a Turbo you rarely get a horn. Do it in any other car and the horn gets blasted.
People are in awe.....
Basically, they're fun if you can drive them hard. Whether or not you can do that has to depend a lot on where you will drive it.
Red Devil is in Scotland, where the roads are great and empty; no doubt that's good fun.
But if you're anywhere crowded or Gatso-d to oblivion, such a fast car is actually a bit frustrating, because you know you could be going so much faster.
I live in the South, so actually I prefer my C2 to my old Turbo, even though it's miles slower.
Red Devil is in Scotland, where the roads are great and empty; no doubt that's good fun.
But if you're anywhere crowded or Gatso-d to oblivion, such a fast car is actually a bit frustrating, because you know you could be going so much faster.
I live in the South, so actually I prefer my C2 to my old Turbo, even though it's miles slower.
david hockney said:
Can any former or current drivers of 997 turbos give an honest description of how much fun they are to drive?
I know they are very fast but does that translate to an interesting drive regarding it's handling?
If you have the talent and the space to properly expend all its ability and beyond, then no, definitely not boring !I know they are very fast but does that translate to an interesting drive regarding it's handling?
ScienceTeacher said:
What I like about the second picture is that the car is clearly up on its haunches accelerating hard - and miles ahead of the GT3.
That mildly tuned turbo hits 0-300kph in approx half the time a GT3 gets in there. Circa 26 secs vs 50 secs. That pics at the start. Turbos finished 1.5 mile run by the time GT3 is still passing half way mark! Porsche leaves so much on the table with turbos can't understand why people who are driving a turbo at 70% of whats its capable say its dull. Get some GT2 RS turbos on them or k16/39 hybrids and blow the doors of virtually anything this side of 675 LT. Cross country they take your breath away. Doubt a 675 LT or 488 GTB would stay in touch on a typical leafy, damp UK road. Awesome ability and thoroughly recommended but they need to be tailored a bit too get the best out of them 9e 28 said:
That mildly tuned turbo hits 0-300kph in approx half the time a GT3 gets in there. Circa 26 secs vs 50 secs. That pics at the start. Turbos finished 1.5 mile run by the time GT3 is still passing half way mark! Porsche leaves so much on the table with turbos can't understand why people who are driving a turbo at 70% of whats its capable say its dull. Get some GT2 RS turbos on them or k16/39 hybrids and blow the doors of virtually anything this side of 675 LT. Cross country they take your breath away. Doubt a 675 LT or 488 GTB would stay in touch on a typical leafy, damp UK road. Awesome ability and thoroughly recommended but they need to be tailored a bit too get the best out of them
Wholly agree..Ah but according to the know all's modifying it devalues it........This is the muppetry out there, narrow
minded, bicycle riding, soya milk drinking, guardian reading, bulb planting liberal bulls
t.Also, apparently if you have Grey leather you don't know what you are talking about, all coming from
people who have most likely owned only a few cars, what's that saying about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing?
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