991 GT3 RS - buy now or wait?
Discussion
Hi all. This is my first post although I've lurked on here for quite some time especially around the GT threads.
I'm a previous GT owner who is struggling with when to get into a 991 RS as the prices seem to be following a very different trajectory to previous versions.
Having not been given an allocation for a 991.1 RS (that's a whole different story) I've looked at buying second hand but have been reluctant to pay 100k overs as I think that premium could evaporate quickly and I'll take a massive hit on the car - personal opinion. I want to get one to DRIVE and TRACK not to collect.
That said I've been tracking the market since these came out and it seems that since the past 3-4 months the market has changed: either cars are hanging around eg Romans had a LO and Silver one for quite some time and both recently "vanished" from their site (or not showing as sold) then two more appeared last week at c.15k lower than the previous two and/or prices are softening - 280 asking down to 250 nowadays for RHD cars with no miles (no miles after a year - criminal).
These are without question great cars and IMHO represent Porsche at the top of its game. So my question is only when is the right time to get one: do people think now is a good time to pick one of these up or is the price fall just gathering steam? Given the prices, buying at the wrong time could result in people seriously losing their shirt. Taking into account a 20k margin for a dealer, a person who bought at 280k (some shifted at that price) less than a year ago would likely be bid 220-230 now. That's a MASSIVE hit by any standards.
Thoughts greatly appreciated.
I'm a previous GT owner who is struggling with when to get into a 991 RS as the prices seem to be following a very different trajectory to previous versions.
Having not been given an allocation for a 991.1 RS (that's a whole different story) I've looked at buying second hand but have been reluctant to pay 100k overs as I think that premium could evaporate quickly and I'll take a massive hit on the car - personal opinion. I want to get one to DRIVE and TRACK not to collect.
That said I've been tracking the market since these came out and it seems that since the past 3-4 months the market has changed: either cars are hanging around eg Romans had a LO and Silver one for quite some time and both recently "vanished" from their site (or not showing as sold) then two more appeared last week at c.15k lower than the previous two and/or prices are softening - 280 asking down to 250 nowadays for RHD cars with no miles (no miles after a year - criminal).
These are without question great cars and IMHO represent Porsche at the top of its game. So my question is only when is the right time to get one: do people think now is a good time to pick one of these up or is the price fall just gathering steam? Given the prices, buying at the wrong time could result in people seriously losing their shirt. Taking into account a 20k margin for a dealer, a person who bought at 280k (some shifted at that price) less than a year ago would likely be bid 220-230 now. That's a MASSIVE hit by any standards.
Thoughts greatly appreciated.
RHD premiums at a price of 250 still seem very high, but the UK market seems to be trading at higher prices on a lot of cars - so no clue if they will hold. A lot will depend on if there is a 991.2 RS and how limited it will be / if Porsche will allocate more RHD cars going forward.
On LHD cars I think the trend will continue and they will drop as Porsche built a lot more cars than people anticipated (I remember when people, myself included, thought it would be about 900 cars total). I am not following the market closely, but it seems like cars are sticking around at premium prices. i would not be surprised if they fall to list or below in the near future (esp for cars which have been driven as opposed to delivery mileage, collector sticks it in a garage for next 10 years, cars).
You will get a lot of opinions on these - many will be influenced by wishful thinking.
At around 250k sterling I personally think a LHD Speciale is more interesting proposition for a similar type of car.
On LHD cars I think the trend will continue and they will drop as Porsche built a lot more cars than people anticipated (I remember when people, myself included, thought it would be about 900 cars total). I am not following the market closely, but it seems like cars are sticking around at premium prices. i would not be surprised if they fall to list or below in the near future (esp for cars which have been driven as opposed to delivery mileage, collector sticks it in a garage for next 10 years, cars).
You will get a lot of opinions on these - many will be influenced by wishful thinking.
At around 250k sterling I personally think a LHD Speciale is more interesting proposition for a similar type of car.
I think the Brexit debate is weighing on the high end of the car market a bit, like on all big discretionary purchases. The restrictions on OPC advertising GT product probably don't help. Folks are maybe waiting to see if the 991.2 GT3 will have a manual option. So those are some of the plausible reasons why they've softened a bit, perhaps.
I agree these cars are made to be used but if you are going to put 7-10k of track miles on it in a year or two I'd guess it's going to trade at a c. 30% discount to the garage queens, whatever happens. Fine if you got one at RRP but harder to stomach if not - I guess it depends on what you are willing to pay for your track day fun and how much you want to be in the latest and greatest thing.
FWIW, I expect the market to say strong but I wouldn't be planning on it appreciating so much that it's going to cover the cost of you using the car like its maker intended.
I agree these cars are made to be used but if you are going to put 7-10k of track miles on it in a year or two I'd guess it's going to trade at a c. 30% discount to the garage queens, whatever happens. Fine if you got one at RRP but harder to stomach if not - I guess it depends on what you are willing to pay for your track day fun and how much you want to be in the latest and greatest thing.
FWIW, I expect the market to say strong but I wouldn't be planning on it appreciating so much that it's going to cover the cost of you using the car like its maker intended.
WCZ said:
is the RS really worth it over the non-rs?
if you're driving it purely for the sake of driving it then you could get a 991 GT3 then add a few track specific mods
Agree.if you're driving it purely for the sake of driving it then you could get a 991 GT3 then add a few track specific mods
Salamander's Inbox is probably full of RS owners wanting to flip. Would be hilarious if PCGB have set up the account to ensnare.
No more knowledge than anyone else, but my sentiment is that the market is over valued, and dealers and speculators are over optimistic on pricing.
This is normally the best time of the year for sales but, when I 'window shop' through the classifieds, I see a lot of stuff that's been sticking for a long time.
Is the 991RS all that exclusive? I've seen more on the road, track and at dealerships than I have GT4s.
This is normally the best time of the year for sales but, when I 'window shop' through the classifieds, I see a lot of stuff that's been sticking for a long time.
Is the 991RS all that exclusive? I've seen more on the road, track and at dealerships than I have GT4s.
Koln-RS said:
Is the 991RS all that exclusive? I've seen more on the road, track and at dealerships than I have GT4s.
More GT4's than 991RS' in the UK, but more 991RS' than any prior RS or GT model.worldwide production circa 6000 has been mentioned many a times. Circa 2500 was norm for prior models, but market is broader/deeper.
Cheers for the thoughts so far. Seems to be a consistent view forming.
Interestingly JZM are showing an incoming Silver RS with a Matte wrap for 240. Haven't seen the pictures yet but sounds very very similar to the Romans matte silver one for 255 that Vanished their website.
If these cars get to sub 200 I reckon they will be a bargain relatively speaking.
Interestingly JZM are showing an incoming Silver RS with a Matte wrap for 240. Haven't seen the pictures yet but sounds very very similar to the Romans matte silver one for 255 that Vanished their website.
If these cars get to sub 200 I reckon they will be a bargain relatively speaking.
RSVP911 said:
Why do you think that - agree > £K 250 is an ask , but I think it's wishful thinking that they'll get to £K 200 in the medium term
Same argument as the gt4, plenty of cars delivered. as mileage goes up cars will start appearing on the wrong side of £200k. Delivery miles cars sure will maintain their levels far above but flipping apart what's the point of having one?RSVP911 said:
Shazbat said:
They will be under 200 sooner than many would like. Hold fire for a bit, not too long to wait.
Why do you think that - agree > £K 250 is an ask , but I think it's wishful thinking that they'll get to £K 200 in the medium term No one wants a new one at 250k so a trackslag with 8k miles and maybe even on its second or third engine aint gonna be anywhere near 200 is it ?
Didn't the regular 991 GT3 first price at around £170k before settling into the current £130 a£140k area?
I've read somewhere that there are an awful lot of LHD RS's looking for a home in Europe. No idea how true that is but you just can't ignore that, there will not be a total disconnect. If LHD prices come off say 20% RHD cars will follow that to some extent. Especially as the real use of these is for the track.
There are certainly quite a few on the market with cars now appearing below £250k. I'd be very, very nervous about paying anything like that. I think they settle close to £200k.
I've read somewhere that there are an awful lot of LHD RS's looking for a home in Europe. No idea how true that is but you just can't ignore that, there will not be a total disconnect. If LHD prices come off say 20% RHD cars will follow that to some extent. Especially as the real use of these is for the track.
There are certainly quite a few on the market with cars now appearing below £250k. I'd be very, very nervous about paying anything like that. I think they settle close to £200k.
Cheib said:
Didn't the regular 991 GT3 first price at around £170k before settling into the current £130 a£140k area?
I've read somewhere that there are an awful lot of LHD RS's looking for a home in Europe. No idea how true that is but you just can't ignore that, there will not be a total disconnect. If LHD prices come off say 20% RHD cars will follow that to some extent. Especially as the real use of these is for the track.
There are certainly quite a few on the market with cars now appearing below £250k. I'd be very, very nervous about paying anything like that. I think they settle close to £200k.
Looks like about 50 cars available in Germany, starting from about 240k - probably still a 40k ish premium. I've read somewhere that there are an awful lot of LHD RS's looking for a home in Europe. No idea how true that is but you just can't ignore that, there will not be a total disconnect. If LHD prices come off say 20% RHD cars will follow that to some extent. Especially as the real use of these is for the track.
There are certainly quite a few on the market with cars now appearing below £250k. I'd be very, very nervous about paying anything like that. I think they settle close to £200k.
I reckon that the mechanics of supply and demand in the premium sports car market is broken.
Its the internet. Its skewing peoples views on the reality of a given cars value. Theres so much hype and subtle marketing going on in certain threads on popular car websites, that it gets buyers in a tizz, and loosens wallets.
Bragging rights on car forums is a relatively new phenomena. I guess it aint going away any time soon.
Its the internet. Its skewing peoples views on the reality of a given cars value. Theres so much hype and subtle marketing going on in certain threads on popular car websites, that it gets buyers in a tizz, and loosens wallets.
Bragging rights on car forums is a relatively new phenomena. I guess it aint going away any time soon.
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