Two 911 R's at Goodwood

Two 911 R's at Goodwood

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Discussion

cptsplash

Original Poster:

59 posts

165 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
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cptsplash

Original Poster:

59 posts

165 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
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cptsplash

Original Poster:

59 posts

165 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
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cptsplash

Original Poster:

59 posts

165 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
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pete.g

1,527 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
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I'll have the white one . . .

hornbaek

3,670 posts

234 months

Friday 24th June 2016
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The 991 R doesn't blow me over. It is a marketing stunt responding to a temporary fad of people seeking cars with provenance such as limited production etc. 991 cars built are not that few and provenance is non-existing so Porsche should do like Aston with the V12VS and offer the GT3 RS with a manual gearbox as an option and the "real" number of buyers would stand out. I believe that number to be much less than 991.

Robbo66

3,828 posts

232 months

Friday 24th June 2016
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Or me, wait until the reviews of the gearing come to the fore....90 in second.

Can't drive it as depreciation at nuclear levels.
Can't track it to full potential as no aero.
Too quick, long geared and large for A-B spirited road driving.

whats it for ?.


Akajak

887 posts

238 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
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and a green striped R at Goodwood for the Supercar run

Yellow491

2,912 posts

118 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
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I can only see one 911r!

cptsplash

Original Poster:

59 posts

165 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
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The 1967 is 1 of 20 911R's ever made. 210bhp, 800kg, heaven..

pistolp

1,719 posts

221 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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Robbo66 said:
Or me, wait until the reviews of the gearing come to the fore....90 in second.

Can't drive it as depreciation at nuclear levels.
Can't track it to full potential as no aero.
Too quick, long geared and large for A-B spirited road driving.

whats it for ?.
Couldn't disagree more. One of my mates drove it up the hill today and absolutely loves it. He also drove the factory GT1 and 935 so that says quite a bit. Also it's nonsense that you can't track it properly just because it has less aero. When you're driven cars with real downforce you see that road car downforce levels are pitiful anyway. Even the 991 cup car doesn't actually feel like it's got much downforce. You can tell that from how easy it is to lock the front brakes in it. I'm getting an R, I will use and I won't be worrying about mileage. The paper value can fall off a cliff at any time. As for track performance and aero, I won't be worried about an RS' in my mirrors. Most get driven nowhere near their mechanical of aero grip levels.

Roberty

1,179 posts

171 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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Did the factory tour on Thursday and saw 4x 911R in various stages of build and was surprised that for a car allegedly only available in white or silver 2 of those 4 were bright yellow!

None of them had the stripes or side decals on so I don't know at what stage they are added.

There were also several GT3RS in various none standard shades. A finished car parked up outside in a dark metallic blue would have been my choice.

BMCG

484 posts

135 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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pistolp said:
Robbo66 said:
Or me, wait until the reviews of the gearing come to the fore....90 in second.

Can't drive it as depreciation at nuclear levels.
Can't track it to full potential as no aero.
Too quick, long geared and large for A-B spirited road driving.

whats it for ?.
Couldn't disagree more. One of my mates drove it up the hill today and absolutely loves it. He also drove the factory GT1 and 935 so that says quite a bit. Also it's nonsense that you can't track it properly just because it has less aero. When you're driven cars with real downforce you see that road car downforce levels are pitiful anyway. Even the 991 cup car doesn't actually feel like it's got much downforce. You can tell that from how easy it is to lock the front brakes in it. I'm getting an R, I will use and I won't be worrying about mileage. The paper value can fall off a cliff at any time. As for track performance and aero, I won't be worried about an RS' in my mirrors. Most get driven nowhere near their mechanical of aero grip levels.
+1 well put pistol...

Was "teased" with a slot by Porsche Center, alas did not get one, but no foul.

Were another to come available, I would bite with alacrity, as the concept resonates...

as to the wider colour choice, continental config tools showed two other colours (a yellow and...can't recollect the second) in addition to the white and silver.

Edited by BMCG on Sunday 26th June 10:45

topboss

352 posts

252 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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The additional colours were yellow, lava orange and black. Limited numbers of each though.

Yellow491

2,912 posts

118 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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cptsplash said:
The 1967 is 1 of 20 911R's ever made. 210bhp, 800kg, heaven..
Sorry if you did not get my humour!
The other car is a lardy nearly double the weight of a 911r

Robbo66

3,828 posts

232 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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pistolp said:
Robbo66 said:
Or me, wait until the reviews of the gearing come to the fore....90 in second.

Can't drive it as depreciation at nuclear levels.
Can't track it to full potential as no aero.
Too quick, long geared and large for A-B spirited road driving.

whats it for ?.
Couldn't disagree more. One of my mates drove it up the hill today and absolutely loves it. He also drove the factory GT1 and 935 so that says quite a bit. Also it's nonsense that you can't track it properly just because it has less aero. When you're driven cars with real downforce you see that road car downforce levels are pitiful anyway. Even the 991 cup car doesn't actually feel like it's got much downforce. You can tell that from how easy it is to lock the front brakes in it. I'm getting an R, I will use and I won't be worrying about mileage. The paper value can fall off a cliff at any time. As for track performance and aero, I won't be worried about an RS' in my mirrors. Most get driven nowhere near their mechanical of aero grip levels.
Accept you have greater knowledge of such things, having raced etc, but I do think aero makes a difference tracking. Others I have spoken to also agree it makes a huge difference on the RS full out. I was at Zandfort watching LT 's muller the RS last week, massive aero on braking and straight line speed eons ahead.
Again, it depends on your personal financial circumstances as regards tracking an R and the inevitable losses incurred.
For me, if tracking, then the RS would be a far better option. For the road, the R is simply far to much car cosseted in a stickered up S shell, though agree that to drive the RS on the road is embarrassing with the lairy wing etc. That's just me though. Think we will se softening post Brexit.....very big softening.

pistolp

1,719 posts

221 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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With the R if people really feel they can't drive it for fear of it losing value then I find that very sad. Apparently they are worth 400k today if you flick it on. Maybe more maybe less, it's besides the point. So that's 250k tax free. Very nice. But if I decide to take the money then I can forget my relationship with the dealer, that'll be the last GT car I buy new off them after 20y of business. One big drawback. But also to me at least, it's the most exciting car that's been built in the last decade. Light, supple, manual, understated and pretty raw (by modern standards).
Will it bother me that the value is diminishing as the miles clock up? Not really. Accessing it (the profit) comes with its own costs. In time the value will be linked to rarity and it's status in car enthusiasts minds. A 2.7RS mileage isn't that relevant is it? This car too will be old at some point and the mileage won't matter so much. But that's so far down the line that I can't get too bothered by it. If your sole objective with cars is to maximise returns then I'd call into question how much you love cars. For me it's accidental investment. I buy what I love. But not using it makes no sense unless you're just an investor. Buy something you can afford to use, otherwise you're really missing out. People that just own stuff so that they can say they've got one need therapy. It does depend on circumstances but the profits are tenuous I'd suggest in today's world and life is short too. I'd like 250k tax free that was as easy to make as falling off a log, but I am passionate about cars. Anyone who can make 150k to spend on a car can make more money. Most owners of these sorts of cars have more than one car too, so I struggle with the idea that they are lying awake at nighty worrying about driving it to the shops for fear of losing money.

Edited by pistolp on Sunday 26th June 18:06

pistolp

1,719 posts

221 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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Lastly I will drive it on track but not because I've got 'loadsa wonga' but just to mix it up and actually to be able to drive it to the limit. As for aero, have you driven a caterham? They are all about mechanical grip and you couldn't hope for a more engaging driving experience.
Anyway, not everyone has to love the R. In fact it's nice to see someone who didn't want one! Most people are still spitting their chips about the stupidly small allocation.

Robbo66

3,828 posts

232 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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P, I think that very much depends on the relationship with his/her Dealer. In my experience, the way overs, lists and commissions on halo cars can be extremely varied. But let's not go there.

£250k of tax free income is a huge amount. The ' I don't care, one life live it' line ( and I'm not judging you personally here I promise), is normally trotted out by those who have inherited , have a Jay Leno size collection or leveraged to the hilt.

I love cars, particularly older 911's, and as you know have your old 997.2 RS, but I'm not 'investing' in them as such. It's not a sole objective as you put it, but conversely, I won't run up 20,000 miles and dump £70 k + net as I'm no Jay Leno.

I think most owners who have grafted and earned enough to buy a £150k car, very much realise the above, and the value of £250k net, regardless of their healthy financial position. The fact they have a collection matters not.

Anyhow, drive yours and enjoy it, just keep an eye out for the big wings in the ear view mirror wink

pistolp

1,719 posts

221 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
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Fair enough, I don't think we are going to agree on this one. At least we can agree that we both like the 997.2 RS!

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'one life live it' with regard to a 250k lump sum. But if you love cars and are lucky enough to get allocated one of the most exciting and certainly sought after models they've built in years then it does seem a little sad that you can't use it for fear of it depreciating a bit. You're not going to lose all the uplift anyway from using the car. If I was like that I wouldn't have the money (still) in the first place with which to buy these cars. When I get bored of racing and playing with my cars, I sometimes do some work. It's overrated. Anyway, part of that involves building houses and other buildings. Did you know they too depreciate when they get used. Yes a building or new build house has a premium attached to it when brand new. Doesn't stop us using them though? If cars are genuinely now an established asset class and this isn't all going to blow up when interest rates move out again, then the value like with property, should gradually creep up over time. So you can use your cars and still expect them to have a decent value over time despite the use.

Look at it another way, with the R you are paying 150k for the car and let's say it's worth 250k over, therefore 400k (for those that weren't privately educated ??). So in essence you could argue it's no different from buying a 650S, F12 or 488 for 250k and saying you can't drive it because of the value, All those cars will depreciate and you'll probably do 70k over 20,000 miles? Or thereabouts. With the R it would still be worth 330k let's say. Or 180k over. All the cars quoted above sell pretty strongly and people seem OK with using them. So my argument is that with the R you can use it and still make a really nice turn. It's quite hard to see the downside for me. I mean what's the alternative. I feel the customers for an R are broadly similar as they are for the Mac and Fezzas. I don't think R customers, from the others I know about, are all either Lenos or Trustafarians either.

But I respect your view that for you and probably many others, the car would leave them in a very unfortunate position of ownership no mans land. Maybe it's a good thing they didn't make more after all.

Edited by pistolp on Sunday 26th June 23:19