Which Panamera? 4S vs Turbo
Discussion
I am considering buying a Panamera, hopefully with change from £50k.
Is there much of a difference between the gen 1 4S and gen 1 turbo, besides the power?
What about brakes, suspension, tyres, equipment etc?
Typically I find turbo cars a bit dull as I enjoy revving them out, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has driven both.
One last thing, would I be nuts to consider a gen 2 diesel? I have spent sometime in one and yes I did love it but I just don't know if I can spend such a vast amount of money on a car with a diesel engine, not only that but I noticed it had severe traction issues in the wet. Not fun.
Is there much of a difference between the gen 1 4S and gen 1 turbo, besides the power?
What about brakes, suspension, tyres, equipment etc?
Typically I find turbo cars a bit dull as I enjoy revving them out, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has driven both.
One last thing, would I be nuts to consider a gen 2 diesel? I have spent sometime in one and yes I did love it but I just don't know if I can spend such a vast amount of money on a car with a diesel engine, not only that but I noticed it had severe traction issues in the wet. Not fun.
I had both
went from a 4S to a turbo
all depends on spec added really.
My 4S was pretty highly specced, but still had a lot of stuff missing that the Turbo had - mind you, that was exceptionally highly specced too !
Suspension - no difference if the 4S has air
mine didn't, so this was the biggest delta - I'd go for air out of choice
Go for air - the std spring are rubbish - I had a knocking issue with mine too which 3 dealers couldn't sort out
Radar cruise on the Turbo was great - never thought i'd use it, and was a gimmick, but it really removes some of the pressure in the 50mph ave lanes on the motorways
Once you've driven a turbo, you will want one.
the power is addictive.
And for not much money you can get more power out of it than a Turbo S
My turbo had the fully adjustable sport seats, and lots of carbon internally.
Sport design exterior - all the bits and bobs in black, so was a bit of a stealth car.
I can honestly say, more people approached me to talk about the car than any other one I've owned - including the current 991 GT3 !
And all very very positive.
If I was in the market for this type of car, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
in fact, if I could buy back my old Turbo I would
went from a 4S to a turbo
all depends on spec added really.
My 4S was pretty highly specced, but still had a lot of stuff missing that the Turbo had - mind you, that was exceptionally highly specced too !
Suspension - no difference if the 4S has air
mine didn't, so this was the biggest delta - I'd go for air out of choice
Go for air - the std spring are rubbish - I had a knocking issue with mine too which 3 dealers couldn't sort out
Radar cruise on the Turbo was great - never thought i'd use it, and was a gimmick, but it really removes some of the pressure in the 50mph ave lanes on the motorways
Once you've driven a turbo, you will want one.
the power is addictive.
And for not much money you can get more power out of it than a Turbo S
My turbo had the fully adjustable sport seats, and lots of carbon internally.
Sport design exterior - all the bits and bobs in black, so was a bit of a stealth car.
I can honestly say, more people approached me to talk about the car than any other one I've owned - including the current 991 GT3 !
And all very very positive.
If I was in the market for this type of car, I'd have one in a heartbeat.
in fact, if I could buy back my old Turbo I would
Have you looked at a GTS? You won't get one for £50k from an OPC but there are others around from independents/privates.
The GTS has the turbo brakes, suspension, wider spacers, PASM, PDC, sport design kit, (hopefully) the alcantara interior, switchable sports exhaust and an uprated engine. The noise is absolutely fantastic and while it doesn't have the torque of the turbo), it's far more fun to rev out and you can drive it hard without having to back off, which was one of my biggest criticisms of the turbo, along with the engine noise and poor throttle response.
They feel more special than the 4S and in my experience, sportier than the turbo.
The GTS has the turbo brakes, suspension, wider spacers, PASM, PDC, sport design kit, (hopefully) the alcantara interior, switchable sports exhaust and an uprated engine. The noise is absolutely fantastic and while it doesn't have the torque of the turbo), it's far more fun to rev out and you can drive it hard without having to back off, which was one of my biggest criticisms of the turbo, along with the engine noise and poor throttle response.
They feel more special than the 4S and in my experience, sportier than the turbo.
Ive got a very highly specced 4s - Window blinds, double glazing, burmester, rear entertainment, privacy&thermal glass, headlights that go round corners, air Susp etc etc.
I really wanted a turbo but this one turned up with <20k miles, great condition etc etc so it was taut rather than hold out for a turbo that may never have turned up.
You find that after a while the car shrinks and you get used to the size even though they're huge! They can shift too - not modified 996 turbo s fast but it got me from a to b to hospital in quite a hurry without drama when I needed it to last week.
I really wanted a turbo but this one turned up with <20k miles, great condition etc etc so it was taut rather than hold out for a turbo that may never have turned up.
You find that after a while the car shrinks and you get used to the size even though they're huge! They can shift too - not modified 996 turbo s fast but it got me from a to b to hospital in quite a hurry without drama when I needed it to last week.
you're not kidding about them shifting.
my Turbo was quicker than a 991GT3 and and LFA down a runway
Only machinery that went (significantly) faster was the very exotic stuff (one:1, veyron, etc)
and I have the Vbox data to back it up !
Looking fwd to a drive in the new Panamera - looks to be a real step forward form the Gen1
my Turbo was quicker than a 991GT3 and and LFA down a runway
Only machinery that went (significantly) faster was the very exotic stuff (one:1, veyron, etc)
and I have the Vbox data to back it up !
Looking fwd to a drive in the new Panamera - looks to be a real step forward form the Gen1
What are the differences in brakes between the models?
I will consider a GTS but the argument is the same, will I prefer revving the naturally aspirated V8 out or do these cars deserve the turbo engine? I don’t really like turbo engines but I did drive a 991.2S and oh my god I need that in my life!
Only disappointing thing is the insurance quotes I have been getting are over twice the price of my Cayman (even more than an 981 of greater value).
I will consider a GTS but the argument is the same, will I prefer revving the naturally aspirated V8 out or do these cars deserve the turbo engine? I don’t really like turbo engines but I did drive a 991.2S and oh my god I need that in my life!
Only disappointing thing is the insurance quotes I have been getting are over twice the price of my Cayman (even more than an 981 of greater value).
Not sure about the difference in sizes (although it would be easy to look up) but I've never found the Turbo brakes on the GTS wanting.
As far as revving out is concerned, the GTS sounds amazing and is rewarding to rev out in a way the turbo isn't but your driving style will determine the right car for you.
If you want to make very fast but relaxed progress using the torque then the turbo is for you. If you want to enjoy one of the few saloons out there with a great sounding and responsive, naturally aspirated engine, then the GTS is a great car and still enjoyable to drive at lower speeds. The gearbox also has quite short ratios so you can enjoy more of the rev range, more often. For what it's worth, I got bored of my E63 because it had too much torque and was slightly too quick on UK roads. Driving it hard took rather too much commitment, which is not something I've had trouble with in the GTS.
As far as revving out is concerned, the GTS sounds amazing and is rewarding to rev out in a way the turbo isn't but your driving style will determine the right car for you.
If you want to make very fast but relaxed progress using the torque then the turbo is for you. If you want to enjoy one of the few saloons out there with a great sounding and responsive, naturally aspirated engine, then the GTS is a great car and still enjoyable to drive at lower speeds. The gearbox also has quite short ratios so you can enjoy more of the rev range, more often. For what it's worth, I got bored of my E63 because it had too much torque and was slightly too quick on UK roads. Driving it hard took rather too much commitment, which is not something I've had trouble with in the GTS.
Edited by Mosdef on Tuesday 6th September 11:13
The gen 1 4S engine (2010-2013) was great and although the turbo was undoubtedly faster the gen 1 4S was a great car- naturally aspirated, instant response etc
The new Panamera 2017 and later is a different story - The new 4S engine is a DOG - a small 2.9 L V6 coupled to twin turbos. Although it has more hp than the old naturally aspirated 4.8L V8 the new V6 sounds feeble, does not have instant response and needs to be revved hard to perform. Worst of all it has terrible fuel economy in practice. That negates the only reason for changing the V8 to a small V6 turbo. The engine does great on government tests but in practical driving the high revs you need to make it perform give atrocious mileage (shades of the VW diesel scandal here). I owned a 2017 4S for 6 months and it never gave me more than 13mpg in town and most of the time it was closer to 10mpg. I had ordered it before they came out and took delivery after a short test drive fully believing it would be a lot better than my previous 4S but what a let down it was!
I finally bit the bullet and traded my almost new 2017 Panamera 4S this week for a 2017 Panamera turbo- what a difference ! The turbo is a 4.0L V8 twin turbo which is sublime and a word apart from the 4S engine. It even gives better economy than the 4S engine despite having 110 more hp. Dont make the mistake of buying the current 4S
The new Panamera 2017 and later is a different story - The new 4S engine is a DOG - a small 2.9 L V6 coupled to twin turbos. Although it has more hp than the old naturally aspirated 4.8L V8 the new V6 sounds feeble, does not have instant response and needs to be revved hard to perform. Worst of all it has terrible fuel economy in practice. That negates the only reason for changing the V8 to a small V6 turbo. The engine does great on government tests but in practical driving the high revs you need to make it perform give atrocious mileage (shades of the VW diesel scandal here). I owned a 2017 4S for 6 months and it never gave me more than 13mpg in town and most of the time it was closer to 10mpg. I had ordered it before they came out and took delivery after a short test drive fully believing it would be a lot better than my previous 4S but what a let down it was!
I finally bit the bullet and traded my almost new 2017 Panamera 4S this week for a 2017 Panamera turbo- what a difference ! The turbo is a 4.0L V8 twin turbo which is sublime and a word apart from the 4S engine. It even gives better economy than the 4S engine despite having 110 more hp. Dont make the mistake of buying the current 4S
abashey said:
The gen 1 4S engine (2010-2013) was great and although the turbo was undoubtedly faster the gen 1 4S was a great car- naturally aspirated, instant response etc
The new Panamera 2017 and later is a different story - The new 4S engine is a DOG - a small 2.9 L V6 coupled to twin turbos. Although it has more hp than the old naturally aspirated 4.8L V8 the new V6 sounds feeble, does not have instant response and needs to be revved hard to perform. Worst of all it has terrible fuel economy in practice. That negates the only reason for changing the V8 to a small V6 turbo. The engine does great on government tests but in practical driving the high revs you need to make it perform give atrocious mileage (shades of the VW diesel scandal here). I owned a 2017 4S for 6 months and it never gave me more than 13mpg in town and most of the time it was closer to 10mpg. I had ordered it before they came out and took delivery after a short test drive fully believing it would be a lot better than my previous 4S but what a let down it was!
I finally bit the bullet and traded my almost new 2017 Panamera 4S this week for a 2017 Panamera turbo- what a difference ! The turbo is a 4.0L V8 twin turbo which is sublime and a word apart from the 4S engine. It even gives better economy than the 4S engine despite having 110 more hp. Dont make the mistake of buying the current 4S
Wow! Amazing that the Turbo gives better mileage. Proper win/win. Did you drive the Diesel S ? I had one for a day as a loan car, loved it! The new Panamera 2017 and later is a different story - The new 4S engine is a DOG - a small 2.9 L V6 coupled to twin turbos. Although it has more hp than the old naturally aspirated 4.8L V8 the new V6 sounds feeble, does not have instant response and needs to be revved hard to perform. Worst of all it has terrible fuel economy in practice. That negates the only reason for changing the V8 to a small V6 turbo. The engine does great on government tests but in practical driving the high revs you need to make it perform give atrocious mileage (shades of the VW diesel scandal here). I owned a 2017 4S for 6 months and it never gave me more than 13mpg in town and most of the time it was closer to 10mpg. I had ordered it before they came out and took delivery after a short test drive fully believing it would be a lot better than my previous 4S but what a let down it was!
I finally bit the bullet and traded my almost new 2017 Panamera 4S this week for a 2017 Panamera turbo- what a difference ! The turbo is a 4.0L V8 twin turbo which is sublime and a word apart from the 4S engine. It even gives better economy than the 4S engine despite having 110 more hp. Dont make the mistake of buying the current 4S
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