Driving nxi20's 996.2 GT3 Clubsport and 993 GT2 recreation
Discussion
Lovely read and two well known lovely cars.
As you highlight, this 996 GT3 has all of the 'right' upgrades to make it performance and driving experience sharper in all the right places - especially when visiting far away places for very high speed lapping!
The connectivity and feedback in a 996 platform GT3 is (in my humble view) unmatched in other variants.
As you highlight, this 996 GT3 has all of the 'right' upgrades to make it performance and driving experience sharper in all the right places - especially when visiting far away places for very high speed lapping!
The connectivity and feedback in a 996 platform GT3 is (in my humble view) unmatched in other variants.
J has pretty much nailed the essences of both cars; a fun day out 
I did offer him the chance of driving the GT3 on track, where it would have all made much more sense & really joined the dots for him but he declined! In truth, it's not a car that is particularly rewarding for me to drive on the road any more as I've moved the focus too far towards the track for it to feel anything other than dawdling along on public roads 99% of the time. Basically, it's a bit of a hooligan & probably should have an ASBO.
The GT2 is a pussycat until you reach that final inch of throttle when it shows you its claws. It's a great car for covering big distances in relative comfort and is light & powerful enough to have some really rewarding fun on alpine passes & Italian autostradas. As wild as it looks, amazingly I find it attracts very little attention out on the road in Europe.
I did offer him the chance of driving the GT3 on track, where it would have all made much more sense & really joined the dots for him but he declined! In truth, it's not a car that is particularly rewarding for me to drive on the road any more as I've moved the focus too far towards the track for it to feel anything other than dawdling along on public roads 99% of the time. Basically, it's a bit of a hooligan & probably should have an ASBO.
The GT2 is a pussycat until you reach that final inch of throttle when it shows you its claws. It's a great car for covering big distances in relative comfort and is light & powerful enough to have some really rewarding fun on alpine passes & Italian autostradas. As wild as it looks, amazingly I find it attracts very little attention out on the road in Europe.
Very enjoyable write up. Thanks cmoose - and nxi for a generous loan.
Interesting what you say about the 993 engine:
"Firstly, it's far more immediate than any modern turbo lump. It doesn't have that momentary deadness, that horrid spongeyness to the initial throttle response. Sure, you have to wait for the boost to build. But I was really surprised by how progressively that happens. It all feels much more organic compared to the binary delivery of torque with a modern turbo lump."
You've articulated nicely what I feel about old school turbos. I own an integrale and the above pretty much nails it. Despite being old fashioned, it's so much nicer than modern turbos precisely because there's an immediate throttle response, even when off boost. OK, so it's not at all quick below 3000 revs - and there is a pronounced lag - but it really does respond the moment you prod it. Modern fly-by-wire turbos are a big fat wave of torque which somehow just don't feel precisely metered. Nothing illustrates this better than pulling out of a junction from idle in an F10 M5. The computer needs a moment to think about it and then suddenly you're off without a really clean correlation between position of right foot and relative change in acceleration.
Interesting what you say about the 993 engine:
"Firstly, it's far more immediate than any modern turbo lump. It doesn't have that momentary deadness, that horrid spongeyness to the initial throttle response. Sure, you have to wait for the boost to build. But I was really surprised by how progressively that happens. It all feels much more organic compared to the binary delivery of torque with a modern turbo lump."
You've articulated nicely what I feel about old school turbos. I own an integrale and the above pretty much nails it. Despite being old fashioned, it's so much nicer than modern turbos precisely because there's an immediate throttle response, even when off boost. OK, so it's not at all quick below 3000 revs - and there is a pronounced lag - but it really does respond the moment you prod it. Modern fly-by-wire turbos are a big fat wave of torque which somehow just don't feel precisely metered. Nothing illustrates this better than pulling out of a junction from idle in an F10 M5. The computer needs a moment to think about it and then suddenly you're off without a really clean correlation between position of right foot and relative change in acceleration.
mollytherocker said:
... Its a 3.9 I think? He had it rebuilt in about 2012? ...
That was then 
That engine didn't last (piston failure at 42K miles) so it's now been rebuilt using Porsche motorsport parts with a view to providing a useful extra helping of torque. Peak is 351 lb/ft & there is over 300 lb/ft available between 3,200 & 7,300 RPM.
nxi20 said:
That was then
That engine didn't last (piston failure at 42K miles) so it's now been rebuilt using Porsche motorsport parts with a view to providing a useful extra helping of torque. Peak is 351 lb/ft & there is over 300 lb/ft available between 3,200 & 7,300 RPM.
Absolutely lovely cars, and great post with pics. That engine didn't last (piston failure at 42K miles) so it's now been rebuilt using Porsche motorsport parts with a view to providing a useful extra helping of torque. Peak is 351 lb/ft & there is over 300 lb/ft available between 3,200 & 7,300 RPM.
993 looks nuclear!
Has it also needed an engine rebuilt, or any important maintenance like 996? Sorry if it is a bit out of context but pretty shocked to see mezger didn't last.nxi20 said:
I did offer him the chance of driving the GT3 on track, where it would have all made much more sense & really joined the dots for him but he declined! In truth, it's not a car that is particularly rewarding for me to drive on the road any more as I've moved the focus too far towards the track for it to feel anything other than dawdling along on public roads 99% of the time. Basically, it's a bit of a hooligan & probably should have an ASBO.
Given the 190 track days, it would seem you have decided on the correct compromise! I once developed a car similarly and, as you say, the better it is as a track day car (as distinct from all-out racing car) the worse it generally becomes as a road car. 140k miles is good going too. 
Nice pair of motors to own!
lemmingjames said:
But what we really want to know.......
Has it had its 15k refresh yet
Hah! The Motons & other suspension mods cost more than £15K but do mean that it doesn't wear everything out within 2 years. The Motons are being refurbed as I write, but they have done 85K miles & well north of 100 trackdays. I don't add up what the 996 has cost me over the years; I'd probably stop doing what I do in it if I did!Has it had its 15k refresh yet
ooid said:
Absolutely lovely cars, and great post with pics.
993 looks nuclear! Has it also needed an engine rebuilt, or any important maintenance like 996? Sorry if it is a bit out of context but pretty shocked to see mezger didn't last.
Cheers 993 looks nuclear!
Has it also needed an engine rebuilt, or any important maintenance like 996? Sorry if it is a bit out of context but pretty shocked to see mezger didn't last.
Nothing lasts forever; the car & engine do a lot of track work, it's not the same as road driving. The precise reason for the piston failure is unclear but one factor is probably that they weren't made by Mahle
The ones in there now are Mahle & I anticipate it will reach the 200K mile mark without any problems. The Mezger is an incredibly tough engine with a bottom end that is seemingly indestructible. The real wear seems to occur in the top end with things like valves, guides & seats showing the most wear. Cams & followers don't seem to wear nearly as much as I had anticipated though.
The 993 has had no engine work beyond a pair of new turbos. I had an odd gearbox noise in 6th that turned out to be a single bearing going bad and that's been the sum total of spend on it. It uses a tiny amount of oil ( < .5L every 2,000 miles or so) & is sitting on about 93K miles - I've done 22K of those.
nxi20 said:
The 993 has had no engine work beyond a pair of new turbos. I had an odd gearbox noise in 6th that turned out to be a single bearing going bad and that's been the sum total of spend on it. It uses a tiny amount of oil ( < .5L every 2,000 miles or so) & is sitting on about 93K miles - I've done 22K of those.
I like your 'head down' attitude to ownership. Very refreshing in the UK, although I gather that US owners are a lot more inclined to just enjoy the car and pile on the miles.The advice about using them is, IMHO, good anyway. There are huge problems for cars that get mothballed 6 months of every year and then don't get properly stretched out the rest of the time.
nxi20 said:
Hah! The Motons & other suspension mods cost more than £15K but do mean that it doesn't wear everything out within 2 years. The Motons are being refurbed as I write, but they have done 85K miles & well north of 100 trackdays. I don't add up what the 996 has cost me over the years; I'd probably stop doing what I do in it if I did!
So that would be a no then, makes mental note to self to avoid this 's
tter' in the future/make stories up ;-)On a more serious note, did you consider the dsc sports suspension from America, the 997 boys seem to like them but ive not looked into it to much about the 996 or are the motons superior to them?
Also, did you do anything to make the steering feel heavier or have the mods youve done just made it feel heavier or has cmoose skipped arm day at the gym?
Edited by lemmingjames on Wednesday 7th September 09:32
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