Discussion
Hi guys. After a few years of being Porscheless am keen to get back into the market. Wished I'd held onto my 996 GT2, GT3 and 968 Clubsport as I'd have been able to clear my mortgage now with current prices!!!
I'm keen to get a 993 and have seen the below car with Clive at Mr 911 who seems to have a good reputation.
http://www.mr911.co.uk/mobile/cars/porsche/911clas...
I've been reading up on 993's as all my knowledge is mainly 996 based and wondered on whether you think this is a good buy? Right spec etc? I know guards red seems to divide opinion!
Are there any major issues that need addressing I should be looking out for.
The car has sat around for at least 2-3 months.
This would be a car to be used but also would be nice to have something that may appreciate over the years as I'd be looking to keep for many years.
Any advice much appreciated.
Thanks.
I'm keen to get a 993 and have seen the below car with Clive at Mr 911 who seems to have a good reputation.
http://www.mr911.co.uk/mobile/cars/porsche/911clas...
I've been reading up on 993's as all my knowledge is mainly 996 based and wondered on whether you think this is a good buy? Right spec etc? I know guards red seems to divide opinion!
Are there any major issues that need addressing I should be looking out for.
The car has sat around for at least 2-3 months.
This would be a car to be used but also would be nice to have something that may appreciate over the years as I'd be looking to keep for many years.
Any advice much appreciated.
Thanks.
Looks like a very nice example. Main things to check out are: check front windsceen corners for any sign of corrosion. Ask if the windscreen scuttle has had any work - if not, it will. Same issue can arise with the rear windsceen, too. Listen for a click from the hinge on opening the drivers door; if so, then the check strap needs a bit of welding. Ask if the chassis legs have had an inspection. All these jobs will need attention on 993s at some point in their lives.
As johnty1 suggests, pay close attention to the windscreen surround areas, especially the lower points where water tends to collect.
Sitting inside the car, feel the top of the windscreen and try and feel the gap between it and the rubber 'buffer' trim. If you can feel a gap greater than your fingertips, the windscreen has been 'set' too high and definitely needs a closer look (if you can get under the trim on the outside you'll see if there is anything unpleasant lurking under it).
The windscreen should be recessed, and the trim should look like it's chamfering onto the scuttle, and not trying to curl back on itself like in the picture.
Not trying to sensationalise this particular matter, but a lot of 993 sellers will say the windscreen has been done, or that the scuttle has been repaired. It doesn't mean it has been done well, or that it will be trouble free. I've removed and refitted countless 993 windscreens (creaking/leaking) which have been replaced - and/or scuttles have been repaired - and many of them have needed more work.
Sitting inside the car, feel the top of the windscreen and try and feel the gap between it and the rubber 'buffer' trim. If you can feel a gap greater than your fingertips, the windscreen has been 'set' too high and definitely needs a closer look (if you can get under the trim on the outside you'll see if there is anything unpleasant lurking under it).
The windscreen should be recessed, and the trim should look like it's chamfering onto the scuttle, and not trying to curl back on itself like in the picture.
Not trying to sensationalise this particular matter, but a lot of 993 sellers will say the windscreen has been done, or that the scuttle has been repaired. It doesn't mean it has been done well, or that it will be trouble free. I've removed and refitted countless 993 windscreens (creaking/leaking) which have been replaced - and/or scuttles have been repaired - and many of them have needed more work.
That car's been for sale a long time which makes me suspicious there may be something wrong with it, but maybe it's just that it's way overpriced? Also the dark grey interior might be putting people off + no air con, which bothers some people, not others. Nothing wrong with Guards Red on a 993 though.
PM me if you want to know what I paid for a 993 manual C2 a few months ago, albeit private and slightly higher milleage. Might help you gauge prices?
Adding to what's been suggested already, also run your fingers along the insides of the rain gulleys either side of the roof/rear as that can be an area where rust can start to develop. If you feel anything a bit uneven or lumpy under the paint then that's a negotiating point. Make sure there's photos and receipts for the glass-out respray the dealer mentions.
If you really like the car, probably best to get an independent PPI done by a Porsche specialist. They'll be able to go super in depth. When I went to view my first 993 (a cab) and knew nothing much about the cars it looked absolutely fine to me.........got Northway to do a PPI and they came back with a list of 50 issues! Many minor cosmetic ones but a few big ones too like leaking steering rack, engine misfire that enabled me to further negotiate on the price. Best £300ish I ever spent.
PM me if you want to know what I paid for a 993 manual C2 a few months ago, albeit private and slightly higher milleage. Might help you gauge prices?
Adding to what's been suggested already, also run your fingers along the insides of the rain gulleys either side of the roof/rear as that can be an area where rust can start to develop. If you feel anything a bit uneven or lumpy under the paint then that's a negotiating point. Make sure there's photos and receipts for the glass-out respray the dealer mentions.
If you really like the car, probably best to get an independent PPI done by a Porsche specialist. They'll be able to go super in depth. When I went to view my first 993 (a cab) and knew nothing much about the cars it looked absolutely fine to me.........got Northway to do a PPI and they came back with a list of 50 issues! Many minor cosmetic ones but a few big ones too like leaking steering rack, engine misfire that enabled me to further negotiate on the price. Best £300ish I ever spent.
Unless I'm being stupid that's a pre-v engine in a 96 shell? And I can't see any air-con or OBC, even though Mr911 states it has them? Not sure how such a 911 expert can get those simple points wrong with the car sitting in front of him.
Import?
The exterior looks a bit tired from the photos - lights for instance - and as suggested already if on original suspension you really need to get this all refreshed (to your requirements) otherwise the 993 is a disappointment to many.
Looks well overpriced from my armchair. But GR is a great colour, will only increase in popularity on a 993 due to rarity, and that 993 looks to be a good starting point if the engine/reg timeline stacks up.
Import?
The exterior looks a bit tired from the photos - lights for instance - and as suggested already if on original suspension you really need to get this all refreshed (to your requirements) otherwise the 993 is a disappointment to many.
Looks well overpriced from my armchair. But GR is a great colour, will only increase in popularity on a 993 due to rarity, and that 993 looks to be a good starting point if the engine/reg timeline stacks up.
Orangecurry said:
Unless I'm being stupid that's a pre-v engine in a 96 shell? And I can't see any air-con or OBC, even though Mr911 states it has them? Not sure how such a 911 expert can get those simple points wrong with the car sitting in front of him.
Import?
The exterior looks a bit tired from the photos - lights for instance - and as suggested already if on original suspension you really need to get this all refreshed (to your requirements) otherwise the 993 is a disappointment to many.
Looks well overpriced from my armchair. But GR is a great colour, will only increase in popularity on a 993 due to rarity, and that 993 looks to be a good starting point if the engine/reg timeline stacks up.
My first thought was a Jap import, very rare here in Guards, not so much in Japan. However it has a MPH speedo so who knows!Import?
The exterior looks a bit tired from the photos - lights for instance - and as suggested already if on original suspension you really need to get this all refreshed (to your requirements) otherwise the 993 is a disappointment to many.
Looks well overpriced from my armchair. But GR is a great colour, will only increase in popularity on a 993 due to rarity, and that 993 looks to be a good starting point if the engine/reg timeline stacks up.
Advert seems to have changed?
Now a 1995 N, and 88k miles? Or did it say that mileage yesterday? Link above does not work, (which makes me think the advert has been amended.)
It 'says' FSH, so unlikely to be Japan, but you could be bang-on.
Front fogs and indicators have been changed, but rear lights are original, and very tired - look at the colour of the reversing light lenses.
Now a 1995 N, and 88k miles? Or did it say that mileage yesterday? Link above does not work, (which makes me think the advert has been amended.)
It 'says' FSH, so unlikely to be Japan, but you could be bang-on.
Front fogs and indicators have been changed, but rear lights are original, and very tired - look at the colour of the reversing light lenses.
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 14th September 08:58
The Porsche factory (used to?) shut for two weeks in Aug/Sep, and the model year starts anew afterwards.
They introduced the Varioram engine for the start of the T-series, or MY96 from Sep 1995 onwards. That engine has a large alloy 'intake' on the top of the engine. But the advertised car was registered after 1st August 1995, so very very unlikely not to have a varioram engine, and I raised the point when the advert originally said it was a 1996 car - which would certainly have had a varioram engine.
Here's a varioram engine, and in the engine bay is also the compressor (bottom RH corner with pipes running r->l) for the air-con.
(edited for clarity)
They introduced the Varioram engine for the start of the T-series, or MY96 from Sep 1995 onwards. That engine has a large alloy 'intake' on the top of the engine. But the advertised car was registered after 1st August 1995, so very very unlikely not to have a varioram engine, and I raised the point when the advert originally said it was a 1996 car - which would certainly have had a varioram engine.
Here's a varioram engine, and in the engine bay is also the compressor (bottom RH corner with pipes running r->l) for the air-con.
(edited for clarity)
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 14th September 08:08
I didn't answer your main question.... we could be wrong about the history - ring up and ask.
Buy the car you want, especially if it's a keeper, but 993 potential buyers are a funny lot - the value of that car will be substantially less going forwards if it's an import, or had an engine swop, etc etc
For me, it looks ridiculously overpriced, with a clue on it's past being the obvious unloved rear lights vs the new? possibly aftermarket front indicators... and that's just the first thing that springs out.... from photos.
1) a fastidious owner would not have the rear lights in that state - as he has scrimped on that, what else needs doing?
2) how did they get into that state in the first place?
I would imagine that if it's lived outside a great deal, the scuttle rust may be extensive. NB the rust happens at the bottom on both front and rear screens. The other rust-area on the 993 is the rear chassis legs - this affects some cars more than others - both areas of rust are 'easily' fixable, but is not cheap if done properly. The suspension will all need doing. Add minimum 10k costs to that car to get it into a decent condition, if those areas need addressing.
Note if there is rust anywhere else, then there has been accident damage. The 993 is significantly better than earlier 911s in both rustproofing and removing areas of rust traps by redesign.
I would buy a 993 privately - they do come up - be patient. Look on PCGB TIPEC and 911uk. Some dealers today have jumped on the oil-cooled price-rise in a very greedy way, asking top-condition prices for poor condition cars.
Good luck!
Buy the car you want, especially if it's a keeper, but 993 potential buyers are a funny lot - the value of that car will be substantially less going forwards if it's an import, or had an engine swop, etc etc
For me, it looks ridiculously overpriced, with a clue on it's past being the obvious unloved rear lights vs the new? possibly aftermarket front indicators... and that's just the first thing that springs out.... from photos.
1) a fastidious owner would not have the rear lights in that state - as he has scrimped on that, what else needs doing?
2) how did they get into that state in the first place?
I would imagine that if it's lived outside a great deal, the scuttle rust may be extensive. NB the rust happens at the bottom on both front and rear screens. The other rust-area on the 993 is the rear chassis legs - this affects some cars more than others - both areas of rust are 'easily' fixable, but is not cheap if done properly. The suspension will all need doing. Add minimum 10k costs to that car to get it into a decent condition, if those areas need addressing.
Note if there is rust anywhere else, then there has been accident damage. The 993 is significantly better than earlier 911s in both rustproofing and removing areas of rust traps by redesign.
I would buy a 993 privately - they do come up - be patient. Look on PCGB TIPEC and 911uk. Some dealers today have jumped on the oil-cooled price-rise in a very greedy way, asking top-condition prices for poor condition cars.
Good luck!
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 14th September 08:11
OP - when you ring up, ask Mr911 to send you a photo of the 'options' sticker, which should be on the underside of the bonnet, and in the service history booklet.
This will tell you the model year and the country code - C16 is the UK
These random stickers I found are a german V-series, followed by an american T-series
This will tell you the model year and the country code - C16 is the UK
These random stickers I found are a german V-series, followed by an american T-series
Mike, blimey this thread might be enough to scare you off a 993 for life! But, really only highlighting things to check for. The only thing I see wrong with the red one is the price - maybe the low mileage has over-excited the seller. The iris blue one one the same page is a better guide to a realistic price. So, it's tiptronic and done more miles, but other things being equal, a well looked after manual version shouldn't be more than 3-4k higher, and the mileage is maybe worth another five, for me.
Have a look here http://www.cameronsportscars.com/stock/ I have found you two.
mikeknivett said:
Hi guys. After a few years of being Porscheless am keen to get back into the market. Wished I'd held onto my 996 GT2, GT3 and 968 Clubsport as I'd have been able to clear my mortgage now with current prices!!!
I'm keen to get a 993 and have seen the below car with Clive at Mr 911 who seems to have a good reputation.
http://www.mr911.co.uk/mobile/cars/porsche/911clas...
I've been reading up on 993's as all my knowledge is mainly 996 based and wondered on whether you think this is a good buy? Right spec etc? I know guards red seems to divide opinion!
Are there any major issues that need addressing I should be looking out for.
The car has sat around for at least 2-3 months.
This would be a car to be used but also would be nice to have something that may appreciate over the years as I'd be looking to keep for many years.
Any advice much appreciated.
Thanks.
Guards red looks great on 993's. I'm keen to get a 993 and have seen the below car with Clive at Mr 911 who seems to have a good reputation.
http://www.mr911.co.uk/mobile/cars/porsche/911clas...
I've been reading up on 993's as all my knowledge is mainly 996 based and wondered on whether you think this is a good buy? Right spec etc? I know guards red seems to divide opinion!
Are there any major issues that need addressing I should be looking out for.
The car has sat around for at least 2-3 months.
This would be a car to be used but also would be nice to have something that may appreciate over the years as I'd be looking to keep for many years.
Any advice much appreciated.
Thanks.
The link above to Mr 911 no longer works but this one does
The link to same car on PH is here
From the description on the website it's been very cared for, but fails to mention the glass out respray on the PH advert, which is surprising.
Personally I think it's alot of money for a 993 spec which is non-Varioram C2, non-aircon, non-sports seats and has grey leather (which is a marmite leather colour).
For £50k I'd be looking for a varioram car with sports seats and lower miles.
The 993 C2 at Camerons would be a better bet as it's a later Varioram model with hardbacked sports seats on a lower mileage.
Edited by g7jhp on Wednesday 14th September 13:54
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