New 991 R review
Discussion
Wilmslowboy said:
Interesting guide price. Probably just bait ?Enjoyed the video and the car looks superb. Cant help but think a lot of hyperbole is about "stuff" that is actually already there to be enjoyed on previous gen GT cars. I wonder if this guy has driven any of those. I also wonder, if they made enough to fulufill demand, what would demand actually be?
ttdan said:
Wilmslowboy said:
Interesting guide price. Probably just bait ?I know this throws this back on point but I agree it was a very good video.
I have to say thought Chris Harris's video of the car was possibly the worst video I think he has done to date, and it screams that some producer is now in control. Effectively only 5 minutes spent on the car as the other 5 where on the Aston. Why the vantage S? why not their special run out like the GT8, I know its more like the GT3 with wings and areo, but its still more a GT car than real track weapon, with the focus around feel and involvement.
I just think that for what is bound to become one of the most iconic 911's ever it should of had a full review!
I have to say thought Chris Harris's video of the car was possibly the worst video I think he has done to date, and it screams that some producer is now in control. Effectively only 5 minutes spent on the car as the other 5 where on the Aston. Why the vantage S? why not their special run out like the GT8, I know its more like the GT3 with wings and areo, but its still more a GT car than real track weapon, with the focus around feel and involvement.
I just think that for what is bound to become one of the most iconic 911's ever it should of had a full review!
Dr S said:
Talked to a Porsche engineer who confirmed that they are already testing a car to follow the limited edition R: 530hp from a heavily uprated GT3/RS engine, manual gearbox, aero pack similar to the R.
Interesting, thanks. You only have to look at the worldwide reaction to these cars (R, RS, GT4 etc). Porsche aren't finished with NA yet. Definitely things to come out of the GT dept. The R was built to tease us, and get us wanting, which it has. Edited by Phooey on Tuesday 27th September 10:31
ags11 said:
Thread derail I know, but even a Cayman Clubsport with the 991 3.4, minus the sound deadening etc- I'd choose that over my GT4!
Buy a Cayman R and take the carpet out then !!!My R has my GT4 licked for feel and driver enjoyment, if that's what you want sell the GT4 buy an R and take the carpet out ! plus put £45k in your pocket.
Porsche911R said:
ags11 said:
Thread derail I know, but even a Cayman Clubsport with the 991 3.4, minus the sound deadening etc- I'd choose that over my GT4!
Buy a Cayman R and take the carpet out then !!!My R has my GT4 licked for feel and driver enjoyment, if that's what you want sell the GT4 buy an R and take the carpet out ! plus put £45k in your pocket.
The 4 is a great "new" car, I'm just being hyper picky. Don't want to sound like a spoilt brat!
However the on rails handling is perhaps a touch boring on road, I don't have the skill to exploit it on the road, never mind the reckless speeds that would be involved.
I'm struggling to find the right words for the detuned 3.8, it feels more of a muscle car engine, I could use "lazy" but that's perhaps too extreme!
What I've gathered from the R review is I want less of everything! Morgan 3 wheeler!
less seems good imo I love my Cayman R, and on my 2nd it's the best car I have owned.
The GT4 is better in every way bar enjoyment ;-) but people want, faster and better, and as you say the cars on rails at 120mph, the enjoyment has vanished.
Would be interesting to see if one could get real "enjoyment" from the 991 R with 500bhp, I am not sure you could in full, and how ever good the eps is, it cannot match the last of the hydraulic set ups and imo no 911 can match the extra weight the Cayman platform gives on steering feel either, what ever these reviews say.
maybe we should all be in BBR Mx5's ! or maybe the Cayman R is the last great flat 6 Porker to be made, with a passive setup.
the guy who bought Bob's modded Cayman R is having the most fun I bet !
The GT4 is better in every way bar enjoyment ;-) but people want, faster and better, and as you say the cars on rails at 120mph, the enjoyment has vanished.
Would be interesting to see if one could get real "enjoyment" from the 991 R with 500bhp, I am not sure you could in full, and how ever good the eps is, it cannot match the last of the hydraulic set ups and imo no 911 can match the extra weight the Cayman platform gives on steering feel either, what ever these reviews say.
maybe we should all be in BBR Mx5's ! or maybe the Cayman R is the last great flat 6 Porker to be made, with a passive setup.
the guy who bought Bob's modded Cayman R is having the most fun I bet !
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree with both statements. If the idea of the 911R was to 'gauge demand' for a manual GT product with a focus on involvement rather than lap times then why make it limited? Surely by virtue of it being limited it will skew the demand curve. If they REALLY wanted to see if the general public have an appetite for this type of car then they should have made it available to anyone who wanted to buy one.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The line is different for every one I guess.I like a planted car with nice feel and feedback, not really sure I like the "playfull" which means tail out action 100% of the time, I am used to Lotus and Nobles and mid engine cars which don't really go hand in hand with tail out fun.
I had a few BMW's, CSL and M3 compition car and they drift like a king, but that's not what I am after on a personal level, good for a laugh a few times, that's about it for me.
I quite like the planted feel but with max feedback in a small package, hence we are all after different things, come winter the R is "playful" once the heat drops a bit and you work the wheel a lot more, but I use my cars every day and in the dry that would get very tiresome having to op lock every bend.
My latest R has basic Goodyear tyres over the Pilot Super sports I always fit and the cars does move about as it stands.
PSM off and colder weather you get plenty of wheel work, in the summer I love the grip, but want still want that jiggle, The GT4 in the summer has no jiggle that car IS ALL grip.
I think the Cayman R does hit a sweetspot and offers quite a lot of drivers car for £45k and a car you can use 100% of the time all year round.
Porsche911R said:
less seems good imo I love my Cayman R, and on my 2nd it's the best car I have owned.
The GT4 is better in every way bar enjoyment ;-) but people want, faster and better, and as you say the cars on rails at 120mph, the enjoyment has vanished.
Would be interesting to see if one could get real "enjoyment" from the 991 R with 500bhp, I am not sure you could in full, and how ever good the eps is, it cannot match the last of the hydraulic set ups and imo no 911 can match the extra weight the Cayman platform gives on steering feel either, what ever these reviews say.
maybe we should all be in BBR Mx5's ! or maybe the Cayman R is the last great flat 6 Porker to be made, with a passive setup.
the guy who bought Bob's modded Cayman R is having the most fun I bet !
I know the guy who has brought Bobs car. Collected it last week. He absolutely loves it. I saw it on Sunday at a meet. Its gorgeous and a fabulous spec. The GT4 is better in every way bar enjoyment ;-) but people want, faster and better, and as you say the cars on rails at 120mph, the enjoyment has vanished.
Would be interesting to see if one could get real "enjoyment" from the 991 R with 500bhp, I am not sure you could in full, and how ever good the eps is, it cannot match the last of the hydraulic set ups and imo no 911 can match the extra weight the Cayman platform gives on steering feel either, what ever these reviews say.
maybe we should all be in BBR Mx5's ! or maybe the Cayman R is the last great flat 6 Porker to be made, with a passive setup.
the guy who bought Bob's modded Cayman R is having the most fun I bet !
ags11 said:
Yeah, the 500bhp means nothing to me.
It's the ethos of a back to basics mechanical thing in a "new" package is compelling.
I am not sure PASM, PTV, EPS and rear wheel steer is that much a back to basics package, it's a LOT of hype because it has a gear shift it seems.It's the ethos of a back to basics mechanical thing in a "new" package is compelling.
Don't get me wrong I would love a 991R as most would , it's as hardcore as one can buy today I guess, it looks from the outside a great package for a new car with a NA engine and a gear lever ! both a rare thing in a £130k car.
Would it offer that "back to basic feel" I don't thing it would.
again take the Carpet out a GT4, add a lwfw and tune the lazy 3.8 to 420BHp and you are about there in a "new" car and if you paid list for the GT4 that's one cheap package imo with a few well picked mods.
GT4 is a great platform to tweak. but it would still be too fast for the road.
Couple of things there a is compelling argument for the 987.2 manual 2.9 Cayman on 18s for a fun road car with a few mods and at £25k a bargain compared to a £45k CR.
Also with a bit of money spent on the gt4 ( engine aside) could you make it better than a 991R?
PS Sorry don't think better is the right word ! Good alternative perhaps for a lot less!
Also with a bit of money spent on the gt4 ( engine aside) could you make it better than a 991R?
PS Sorry don't think better is the right word ! Good alternative perhaps for a lot less!
Edited by GT4P on Tuesday 27th September 12:55
anonymous said:
[redacted]
it's a fine line again and not a contradiction, Yes I do like grip but the GT4 has no "jiggle" and "less feel", as I said until much much higher speeds, 120mph in the GT4 feels like 85MPh in the R. Hence why the GT4 IS ON RAILS AT 85mph.So yes too much Grip is bad for the GT4 for me, the R even though it's planted has the jiggle and feel at 35% less speeds.
would I like a Cayman R more on 17" , no idea, I am also not in the balloon tyre feel camp and like how a low profile tyre reacts with steering input. ie faster. I feel like the R does what I ask, the 987 Spyder more so with monoballs and a solid engine mount, 17" would take that part away.
I would say a 65 profile tyre is like a rubber bush ! and has the give and reacts less, the Spyder feels very like a massive go kart.
prob better in the wet for feel, but in the dry not so much.
remember I get to drive all these cars back to back any day I please , they are very fine lines, maybe my words cannot get that over well enough.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 27th September 13:24
I prefer the R to the GT concept.
Distinctly remember having a chat with the DP at my OPC about six years ago - my preference of a GT3 without the wing etc. Now they made one & finances aside no-one can buy it.
If it's a numbers game with emissions I'm sure quite a few buyers might go R rather than GT. Maybe it could be done without increasing production numbers.
Why not have the manual GT3 come without a wing etc & call it an R??
Distinctly remember having a chat with the DP at my OPC about six years ago - my preference of a GT3 without the wing etc. Now they made one & finances aside no-one can buy it.
If it's a numbers game with emissions I'm sure quite a few buyers might go R rather than GT. Maybe it could be done without increasing production numbers.
Why not have the manual GT3 come without a wing etc & call it an R??
Really enjoyed that video, a welcome distraction from everything going on here; one of the best car reviews I've seen, I liked the level of detail he went in to, especially on the sound dampening (or lack of).
In fact, interestingly enough, I found most of what he said rang just as true with the GT4; you get similar noise from the engine, a similar analogue feel (although it isn't), just a very similar package which of the latest generation, only the 991R and GT4 offer from the Porsche range.
I'm therefore happy to say I have the 991R's understudy.
In fact, interestingly enough, I found most of what he said rang just as true with the GT4; you get similar noise from the engine, a similar analogue feel (although it isn't), just a very similar package which of the latest generation, only the 991R and GT4 offer from the Porsche range.
I'm therefore happy to say I have the 991R's understudy.
Porsche911R said:
Would be interesting to see if one could get real "enjoyment" from the 991 R with 500bhp, I am not sure you could in full, and how ever good the eps is, it cannot match the last of the hydraulic set ups and imo no 911 can match the extra weight the Cayman platform gives on steering feel either, what ever these reviews say
We agree on something, you're not going to really enjoy properly wringing the neck of 991 R on the road in the UK, barring some choice roads in Scotland and N.Wales. As for the R being hardcore, you clearly have a very different threshold than most for what construes hardcore.As for your comments about steering feel and weight, you've fallen into the age old trap of mistaking weight for feel. But you've also committed the cardinal sin of berating 911 steering feel.
It's impossible to establish from your post whether you're referring to the steering weight/feel of 991's, or whether you're suggesting there's never been a 911 built which had steering as feelsome and weighty as that of the Cayman R. If it's the latter, you're a bigger idiot than most give you credit for.
500bhp on the right road, in an R, will be fantastic. You just have to be able to see where you are going, what's coming, and be brave enough to live with the consequences of a speed trap. Even with all that, you'll still be off the limit.
Like the 991RS, it's at the limit, on track, that any lack of purity becomes apparent, ABS, RWS, all the other TLAs kick in if you want to 100% max out, and you won't go as fast as possible without using them, not just ignoring them.
As a modern road car, it's awesome, IMO. If you want a race car or an old school raw, relatively underpowered machine, then go elsewhere. They are all different and have different strengths and purposes.
Like the 991RS, it's at the limit, on track, that any lack of purity becomes apparent, ABS, RWS, all the other TLAs kick in if you want to 100% max out, and you won't go as fast as possible without using them, not just ignoring them.
As a modern road car, it's awesome, IMO. If you want a race car or an old school raw, relatively underpowered machine, then go elsewhere. They are all different and have different strengths and purposes.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff