3.8 RS vs current 991s (GT cars)
Discussion
Ok, I've read all the reviews and know a little bit from my experience with the 997 GT3, but looking for some experiences on driving the 3.8 RS vs the current crop of 991s (GT cars).
My perception is the 3.8 RS is harder work to get the balance right on the road, the gearshift needs positive inputs and there's generally a bit more going on. The 991s however seem to have moved the game on significantly in terms of agility, balance and performance.
I hold two particular reservations about the 997 cars - understeer and relative lack of torque.
Comments?
GQ
My perception is the 3.8 RS is harder work to get the balance right on the road, the gearshift needs positive inputs and there's generally a bit more going on. The 991s however seem to have moved the game on significantly in terms of agility, balance and performance.
I hold two particular reservations about the 997 cars - understeer and relative lack of torque.
Comments?
GQ
buy a 991.2 and tick the rear wheel steer box, that should do it, you get the torque and get the turn in.
Not sure what you want people to say on the 997.2 RS vs the 991 GT3,the RS is harder to drive, the 991 GT3 easy to drive with an automatic box and rear wheel steer.
The 997.2 RS at least has the shorter final drive which is nicer on the road. but is any RS nice on the road ?
what are you after ?
Not sure what you want people to say on the 997.2 RS vs the 991 GT3,the RS is harder to drive, the 991 GT3 easy to drive with an automatic box and rear wheel steer.
The 997.2 RS at least has the shorter final drive which is nicer on the road. but is any RS nice on the road ?
what are you after ?
Unfortunately with these question you do get a lot of subjective answers - I bought a 3.8RS its the best, or I moved from a 3.8RS to 991GT3 and its the best, etc - so you do need to find someone with both and no bias
For instance, I like manuals and having driven 991RS at PEC for a day and pax'd 991GT3s at Spa, I still have a preference for the older car...however, that's just my view. Given the luxury I might also like to have a PDK-S in the collection but not there yet.
As for your points about understeer and torque. Understeer is a function of geometry and can be addressed in the 3.8RS as well. To be honest I think all GT cars understeer on circuit a little once you start pushing on and require geo work to sort out. If you are still building up to the car's limits then you may not feel this as much.
...and torque lacking on the 3.8RS? Can't say I feel that but then I mainly drive NA cars and not turbos (I only bought a turbo engined car 3 weeks ago) and perhaps if you are used to turbo levels of torque then you may miss this in any NA GT car.
Driven correctly, the 997 will not understeer. The driver is a key component in finding a balance in the chassis. Thats what makes it special. In the 991, the driver is not an essential chassis component. He or she merely dictates the speed at which the car will travel. Torque is not really a factor. Any engine that revs out at 8500 rpm will need those revs to make it work.
It all depends on what part you wish to play in the driving process. To me the 911 is defined by the reward that it offers when driven correctly so I'd take the 997 - but i understand that many drivers would prefer the 991.
It all depends on what part you wish to play in the driving process. To me the 911 is defined by the reward that it offers when driven correctly so I'd take the 997 - but i understand that many drivers would prefer the 991.
LaSource said:
Unfortunately with these question you do get a lot of subjective answers - I bought a 3.8RS its the best, or I moved from a 3.8RS to 991GT3 and its the best, etc - so you do need to find someone with both and no bias
How politely put T, I admire your considerable restraint in these matters, all the more so when you speak on here as an owner rather than a habitual, jaundiced, parochial, wannabe ...
LaSource said:
For instance, I like manuals and having driven 991RS at PEC for a day and pax'd 991GT3s at Spa, I still have a preference for the older car...however, that's just my view. Given the luxury I might also like to have a PDK-S in the collection but not there yet.
If you're seeking true engagement betwixt man and driving machine, I suspect you'll struggle to find it in any vehicle equippped with a PDK 'box.LaSource said:
As for your points about understeer and torque. Understeer is a function of geometry and can be addressed in the 3.8RS as well. To be honest I think all GT cars understeer on circuit a little once you start pushing on and require geo work to sort out. If you are still building up to the car's limits then you may not feel this as much.
Whoa, easy Tiger, understeer CAN indeed be a function of geo, but it can just as easily be a function of the nut holding the steering wheel (and I suspect in may cases is) LaSource said:
...and torque lacking on the 3.8RS? Can't say I feel that but then I mainly drive NA cars and not turbos (I only bought a turbo engined car 3 weeks ago) and perhaps if you are used to turbo levels of torque then you may miss this in any NA GT car.
I'd venture to suggest that anyone who says a 997 3.8 RS lacks torque probably shouldn't be driving it (or more likely isn't driving it correctly/using it as its makers intended) But if this is a genuine issue for the OP, Porsche have just the tool in their box :But on the basis the OP is having issues with lack of torque and understeer, one of these may be more suitable ?
Failing that there's always the redoubtable :
Try as you might, you'll never find lack of torque and the Cayman R in the same sentence (ergo it can't be lacking in that department). What's more, rumour has it the CR's front end is so pointy and grippy Ferrari have purchased one with a view to basing their next F1 car's front suspension arrangement on it.
But in all seriousness, the two cars the OP is considering are two very differing propositions. Drive both and then report back with your findings.
Run a 997.2 GT3 Clubsport and 991 RS, enjoy both equally but they are really chalk and cheese.
The LWB of 991 is perhaps biggest difference and is more stable platform but less of a typical 911 experience. The rewarding handling of a traditional 911 has always been it's USP so that's a pro/con. Porsche are constantly developing the cars so changes are to be expected - next stop electric gubbins, not sure about that stuff though!
Torque is none issue on 997 GT3 (and 996 GT3), they have all worked fine for me at least and used primarily as road cars.
The LWB of 991 is perhaps biggest difference and is more stable platform but less of a typical 911 experience. The rewarding handling of a traditional 911 has always been it's USP so that's a pro/con. Porsche are constantly developing the cars so changes are to be expected - next stop electric gubbins, not sure about that stuff though!
Torque is none issue on 997 GT3 (and 996 GT3), they have all worked fine for me at least and used primarily as road cars.
Slippydiff said:
But in all seriousness, the two cars the OP is considering are two very differing propositions. Drive both and then report back with your findings.
I expected someone would say that, but wanted to have a debate first, and in reality what can we really learn from a quick test drive nowadays? Could always go on a experience day I guess. GarageQueen said:
I expected someone would say that, but wanted to have a debate first, and in reality what can we really learn from a quick test drive nowadays? Can always pay for an experience day I guess.
what did Walter say were the 3 best Porkers in his last interview.987.2 Spyder, GT4 and the 991 Turbo S.
Then again in a 991 RS vs GT4 review by Walter the GT4 won again and the car he would take home.
every one will say what they feel like and then buy that car and will stick up for the car they buy, why buy it other wise !
I think I am more inline with Walter Röhrl comments and seem to always like what he has to say about the cars, the fact he himself owns the 987.2 Spyder and places the GT4 over a 991 RS says it all. The 2 cars I ended up keeping.
watch his 991 GT3 interview and drive and he seems less impressed with not having any control of it.
But the people who buy these halo GT3 cars love them as they make them look like a hero and the RS laps as fast as anything.
Every one will have their own view and buy what they personally like.
watch the Walter Röhrl reviews and see if you have a feel for what he likes about driving and if you see that in yourself.
Porsche911R said:
GarageQueen said:
I expected someone would say that, but wanted to have a debate first, and in reality what can we really learn from a quick test drive nowadays? Can always pay for an experience day I guess.
Then again in a 991 RS vs GT4 review by Walter the GT4 won again and the car he would take home.So back on topic. It will all boil down to how much reward and interaction you want from your car against how much outright pace. If its road use only, both cars are far too quick anyway. If its track, the 991 will be a lot quicker than a 997 in inexperienced hands. The gap closed dramatically when both cars are driven by a decent 911 pilot.
GarageQueen said:
I expected someone would say that, but wanted to have a debate first, and in reality what can we really learn from a quick test drive nowadays? Could always go on a experience day I guess.
All well and good having a debate, but why not go and have a drive both of them first and form your own impressions, rather than be influenced by what are clearly partisan owners on here, some of which are more vocal (not to say tedious in their parochialism) than others. If you're spending £****K, you have every right to expect a decently long and insightful road test, so I'm afraid I don't buy into the whole "What's the point of driving them ?" perspective.
Lack of torque ? subjective. Understeering traits ? again, subjective. If you're used to driving a Radical with aero and slicks, then yes a 3.8 RS will feel understeery on track, if you're daily is 800hp GTR, of course the RS will feel asthmatic and gutless on the road. Which of course begs the question, what's your point of reference for those comments ?
As others and I have said, the two cars are massively different propositions, having driven both, you may discount one or even both of them outright and pursue other options.
Porsche911R said:
It would go well with the fleet for sure.
I just like what he has to say about cars over the normal jurno crap and seem to always agree with his views.
I just like what he has to say about cars over the normal jurno crap and seem to always agree with his views.
Porsche911R said:
what did Walter say were the 3 best Porkers in his last interview.
987.2 Spyder, GT4 and the 991 Turbo S.
Then again in a 991 RS vs GT4 review by Walter the GT4 won again and the car he would take home.
every one will say what they feel like and then buy that car and will stick up for the car they buy, why buy it other wise !
I think I am more inline with Walter Röhrl comments and seem to always like what he has to say about the cars, the fact he himself owns the 987.2 Spyder and places the GT4 over a 991 RS says it all. The 2 cars I ended up keeping.
watch his 991 GT3 interview and drive and he seems less impressed with not having any control of it.
But the people who buy these halo GT3 cars love them as they make them look like a hero and the RS laps as fast as anything.
Every one will have their own view and buy what they personally like.
watch the Walter Röhrl reviews and see if you have a feel for what he likes about driving and if you see that in yourself.
Ahh, would this be the same Walter Rohrl you're referring to ? 987.2 Spyder, GT4 and the 991 Turbo S.
Then again in a 991 RS vs GT4 review by Walter the GT4 won again and the car he would take home.
every one will say what they feel like and then buy that car and will stick up for the car they buy, why buy it other wise !
I think I am more inline with Walter Röhrl comments and seem to always like what he has to say about the cars, the fact he himself owns the 987.2 Spyder and places the GT4 over a 991 RS says it all. The 2 cars I ended up keeping.
watch his 991 GT3 interview and drive and he seems less impressed with not having any control of it.
But the people who buy these halo GT3 cars love them as they make them look like a hero and the RS laps as fast as anything.
Every one will have their own view and buy what they personally like.
watch the Walter Röhrl reviews and see if you have a feel for what he likes about driving and if you see that in yourself.
From this thread :
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=5&a...
Porsche911 said:
Why is he a mystery man ?
Just looks like he turned up to shift books.
And any employee will have to follow the company line to the letter.
Say you owned a 15year old 2.5 Boxster and he would have said great car.
Good to have a chat too in a pub in private, but at the work place, don't see the attraction.
But then I do not idolise any one to that extent to go and post about it on a public forum.
Each to their own I guess.
I have the launch press release for the mk2 GT3 and could quote many lines from him stating the car is better in very single way than the outing model. It's called marketing
Just looks like he turned up to shift books.
And any employee will have to follow the company line to the letter.
Say you owned a 15year old 2.5 Boxster and he would have said great car.
Good to have a chat too in a pub in private, but at the work place, don't see the attraction.
But then I do not idolise any one to that extent to go and post about it on a public forum.
Each to their own I guess.
I have the launch press release for the mk2 GT3 and could quote many lines from him stating the car is better in very single way than the outing model. It's called marketing
Make your mind up. Which is it ??
So what's changed ? (clue, it ain't WR) far more likely it's your usual inconsistent, nonsensical tripe that you spout on here all day every day)
Agree with MrD as regards gt4 and 987 spyder would make the perfect garage but owning a 991R has got to be the best of all worlds and the most complete car?
Back on topic I would take the 997.2RS over any 991gt3 even a 997.2gt3 would still be my 1st choice but until we know what the 991.2 gt3 is all about so might be worth waiting !
Back on topic I would take the 997.2RS over any 991gt3 even a 997.2gt3 would still be my 1st choice but until we know what the 991.2 gt3 is all about so might be worth waiting !
As others have said it's an Impossible question as personal preference is the key driver here and as such, only you can decide.
If it helps though - the last car I would part with is my 997.2 RS : the 991 RS would be the penultimate one - its a fine car , it really is a piece of engineering genius - it must be good as it makes me feel like I can drive a little - but the older RS is a proper raw "thing" - when we are together the only limiting factor is me - by a county mile - I really respect that car, it's a beast - I simply love it
If it helps though - the last car I would part with is my 997.2 RS : the 991 RS would be the penultimate one - its a fine car , it really is a piece of engineering genius - it must be good as it makes me feel like I can drive a little - but the older RS is a proper raw "thing" - when we are together the only limiting factor is me - by a county mile - I really respect that car, it's a beast - I simply love it
Well, I went through this process myself, and had to make a decision when I got the 991RS.
I had a 3,6RS and a 3.8RS in the garage, and one had to go. Eventually I let the 3.8 go although it was a better car than the 3.6. I had a bit of a sentimental attachment to the older car and kept it.
As others have said, it does depends on how you use it.
With the 991RS I use it hugely more than either of the 997s because it can double as a completely practical DD and as a very capable track car. It has two personalities and changes quite dramatically once you have the opportunity to use it on track. It also is vastly superior in wet grip on a track. I have now done about 12000Km in the 991 had it still makes me smile. I still love to go out in the 997RS but I aways know that it is more track than road focused, ( I have about 35,000km on it with lots of track days).
If it were primarily for track and you are a well above average driver I might be tempted by the 3.8 - a truly great car. If you are like me, mifddlingly competent, then I would take the 991 RS. (of course maybe I am the only average driver on PH).........
I had a 3,6RS and a 3.8RS in the garage, and one had to go. Eventually I let the 3.8 go although it was a better car than the 3.6. I had a bit of a sentimental attachment to the older car and kept it.
As others have said, it does depends on how you use it.
With the 991RS I use it hugely more than either of the 997s because it can double as a completely practical DD and as a very capable track car. It has two personalities and changes quite dramatically once you have the opportunity to use it on track. It also is vastly superior in wet grip on a track. I have now done about 12000Km in the 991 had it still makes me smile. I still love to go out in the 997RS but I aways know that it is more track than road focused, ( I have about 35,000km on it with lots of track days).
If it were primarily for track and you are a well above average driver I might be tempted by the 3.8 - a truly great car. If you are like me, mifddlingly competent, then I would take the 991 RS. (of course maybe I am the only average driver on PH).........
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