Top Gear’s Speed Week: Chris Harris vs Porsche 911 R
Discussion
Apologies if repost. He clearly prefers the new 4.0 engine and box to the old 3.8 Mezger. It just makes me want one even more 
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/chris-harris-drive...
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/chris-harris-drive...
Mezger has been over rated by a few forum nutters for years !!
It was just a solid unit while the normal engine blew up or failed from 2005 to 2010 add to that the 2014 991 GT3 engine issues and the
Mezger gained even more "king of the engines title"
great on track but having to find >6k on the road to feel alive was impossible.
911R looks great, spec is great shame we may never see a manual GT3 again....
It was just a solid unit while the normal engine blew up or failed from 2005 to 2010 add to that the 2014 991 GT3 engine issues and the
Mezger gained even more "king of the engines title"
great on track but having to find >6k on the road to feel alive was impossible.
911R looks great, spec is great shame we may never see a manual GT3 again....
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 26th October 09:15
where would it fit in the market place, we have a 911R which is the same car sans wing.
speculation is great for sales, but when do we ever get what we want lol
bit like the PDK won't fit in a GT4 then 3 months later we see a PDK In a GT4, all be it the race car, but it fits no issue.
speculation is great for sales, but when do we ever get what we want lol
bit like the PDK won't fit in a GT4 then 3 months later we see a PDK In a GT4, all be it the race car, but it fits no issue.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 26th October 10:52
It was interesting for me, the whole Mezger thing.
I had read a lot about the engines, and then suddenly within weeks of each other i had both a 997 and 991 GT3.
My initial thoughts? Where was all this 'character' people were talking about! I was disappointed with how quiet the 997 was. I was waiting for the chuntering and whining noises to overcome my senses. It actually took a while to appreciate the facets of the car.
Conversely, i was told on PH that, in comparison, the 991 GT3's engine was made out of chocolate and had none of the character.
Wrong! If anything, the 991 makes more race-car like noises. Yes, it may be more civilised as a package, but the engine still talked to me, and on top of that you had that incredible noise in the last 500rpm.
However, i preferred the 997 because it was more fun at slower speeds and i loved the heel and toe. The gearbox itself was alright, a little truculent and notchy compared to the rifle bolt action in the NSX.
As such, i'm not surprised that the R is so well loved - it has the better engine with the right box. And from what Car Crazed Fool has told me, the heel and toe is a delight - i sorely miss that.
I hope that they do build a Gen 2 GT3 in manual form, but if not i'll be back in a 997 GT3 soon enough. It will be interesting if that means prices go back up, as i've noticed things have steadied of late.
I had read a lot about the engines, and then suddenly within weeks of each other i had both a 997 and 991 GT3.
My initial thoughts? Where was all this 'character' people were talking about! I was disappointed with how quiet the 997 was. I was waiting for the chuntering and whining noises to overcome my senses. It actually took a while to appreciate the facets of the car.
Conversely, i was told on PH that, in comparison, the 991 GT3's engine was made out of chocolate and had none of the character.
Wrong! If anything, the 991 makes more race-car like noises. Yes, it may be more civilised as a package, but the engine still talked to me, and on top of that you had that incredible noise in the last 500rpm.
However, i preferred the 997 because it was more fun at slower speeds and i loved the heel and toe. The gearbox itself was alright, a little truculent and notchy compared to the rifle bolt action in the NSX.
As such, i'm not surprised that the R is so well loved - it has the better engine with the right box. And from what Car Crazed Fool has told me, the heel and toe is a delight - i sorely miss that.
I hope that they do build a Gen 2 GT3 in manual form, but if not i'll be back in a 997 GT3 soon enough. It will be interesting if that means prices go back up, as i've noticed things have steadied of late.
I think most buyers at £85k would be buying a GT4 over a 10 year old 997 GT3 though hence how easy it was to sell 600.
people go on about making money and flippers but not that many GT4's are for sale really when you think 600 were sold.
Nice to have both of course, and a market for both, but hand on heart I would take the GT4 at £85k over a 10 year old GT3 with 30k miles on it.
997 GT3 were nice when they are £70k but the markets screwed on pricing atm.
hence we will never see list price GT4 like people want due to £75k 997 GTS prices and the like.
people go on about making money and flippers but not that many GT4's are for sale really when you think 600 were sold.
Nice to have both of course, and a market for both, but hand on heart I would take the GT4 at £85k over a 10 year old GT3 with 30k miles on it.
997 GT3 were nice when they are £70k but the markets screwed on pricing atm.
hence we will never see list price GT4 like people want due to £75k 997 GTS prices and the like.
hondansx said:
It was interesting for me, the whole Mezger thing.
I had read a lot about the engines, and then suddenly within weeks of each other i had both a 997 and 991 GT3.
My initial thoughts? Where was all this 'character' people were talking about! I was disappointed with how quiet the 997 was. I was waiting for the chuntering and whining noises to overcome my senses. It actually took a while to appreciate the facets of the car.
Conversely, i was told on PH that, in comparison, the 991 GT3's engine was made out of chocolate and had none of the character.
Wrong! If anything, the 991 makes more race-car like noises. Yes, it may be more civilised as a package, but the engine still talked to me, and on top of that you had that incredible noise in the last 500rpm.
However, i preferred the 997 because it was more fun at slower speeds and i loved the heel and toe. The gearbox itself was alright, a little truculent and notchy compared to the rifle bolt action in the NSX.
As such, i'm not surprised that the R is so well loved - it has the better engine with the right box. And from what Car Crazed Fool has told me, the heel and toe is a delight - i sorely miss that.
I hope that they do build a Gen 2 GT3 in manual form, but if not i'll be back in a 997 GT3 soon enough. It will be interesting if that means prices go back up, as i've noticed things have steadied of late.
No shortage of this by a certain contributor to this very topic/forum. If it's not understeer, it's gearing, failing that it's GT3's generally, or something else of little or no consequence to 99.9% of other Porsche/GT3 owners.I had read a lot about the engines, and then suddenly within weeks of each other i had both a 997 and 991 GT3.
My initial thoughts? Where was all this 'character' people were talking about! I was disappointed with how quiet the 997 was. I was waiting for the chuntering and whining noises to overcome my senses. It actually took a while to appreciate the facets of the car.
Conversely, i was told on PH that, in comparison, the 991 GT3's engine was made out of chocolate and had none of the character.
Wrong! If anything, the 991 makes more race-car like noises. Yes, it may be more civilised as a package, but the engine still talked to me, and on top of that you had that incredible noise in the last 500rpm.
However, i preferred the 997 because it was more fun at slower speeds and i loved the heel and toe. The gearbox itself was alright, a little truculent and notchy compared to the rifle bolt action in the NSX.
As such, i'm not surprised that the R is so well loved - it has the better engine with the right box. And from what Car Crazed Fool has told me, the heel and toe is a delight - i sorely miss that.
I hope that they do build a Gen 2 GT3 in manual form, but if not i'll be back in a 997 GT3 soon enough. It will be interesting if that means prices go back up, as i've noticed things have steadied of late.
Dr S said:
Talked to a Porsche engineer. They are testing a more broadly available R-successor model. It runs interally under the "911T" (for Touring) moniker but for the launch naming might still change. It will have a substantially uprated R/RS engine plus
Blimey. Form an orderly queue........."More broadly available" probably means RS type allocation numbers though.
They need to make 10,000 of a car like this so all the genuine enthusiasts can get a car and actually drive it....and then go back to making limited edition cars for the collectors for another 10 years.
Dr S said:
Talked to a Porsche engineer. They are testing a more broadly available R-successor model. It runs interally under the "911T" (for Touring) moniker but for the launch naming might still change. It will have a substantially uprated R/RS engine plus
As long as they dont call it a st,and make a mockery of that like the so called new r.Dr S said:
Talked to a Porsche engineer. They are testing a more broadly available R-successor model. It runs interally under the "911T" (for Touring) moniker but for the launch naming might still change. It will have a substantially uprated R/RS engine plus
Could reinvent the T/R.. https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/they...Porsche911R said:
Mezger has been over rated by a few forum nutters for years !!
It was just a solid unit while the normal engine blew up or failed from 2005 to 2010 add to that the 2014 991 GT3 engine issues and the
Mezger gained even more "king of the engines title"
great on track but having to find >6k on the road to feel alive was impossible.
911R looks great, spec is great shame we may never see a manual GT3 again....
I think other than the M engine being the most successful GT racing engine ever built, its got nothing really going for it. It was just a solid unit while the normal engine blew up or failed from 2005 to 2010 add to that the 2014 991 GT3 engine issues and the
Mezger gained even more "king of the engines title"
great on track but having to find >6k on the road to feel alive was impossible.
911R looks great, spec is great shame we may never see a manual GT3 again....
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 26th October 09:15
Steve Rance said:
I think other than the M engine being the most successful GT racing engine ever built, its got nothing really going for it.
The Mezger is a time consuming PITA to build on a production line, such are it's watch like internals, but it's durable and reliability are why it's endured so long. Rest assured if Porsche could've binned it sooner, they would have done, but as the 991 GT3 engine debacle showed (and continues to do so) their latest efforts struggled to match the older "inferior" engine.The latest engine may evolve into something superior to the Mezger, but it's painful gestation proves that cost cutting and quality rarely make good bed partners.
I remember Mr P saying - when justifying the 911R - that the GT3 and RS were about demonstrating ultimate speed within the package; that's why manual wasn't offered. It will therefore be interesting if he back tracks on that. Hopefully the marketing department are working on his spiel now...
Steve Rance said:
I think other than the M engine being the most successful GT racing engine ever built, its got nothing really going for it.
I would say Mercedes engines are the most successful in racing full stop, but who cares about racing engines in road cars, not me or the other 99.9% of road car owners.Race engines make s
t road engines.Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 26th October 18:56
Dr S said:
Talked to a Porsche engineer. They are testing a more broadly available R-successor model. It runs interally under the "911T" (for Touring) moniker but for the launch naming might still change. It will have a substantially uprated R/RS engine plus
"substantially uprated R/RS engine" why ?
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