Struggling with PDK

[Gerber1]

Well I see some people’s egos were bruised during one of my previous posts, but yes I was having great fun on a beach although I hope my post didn’t ruin anyone’s Christmas.

Still I stand by my previous comment, nobody who can use a manual gearbox proficiently would choose the flappy paddle variant over it.

Almost a month in and I suppose I can drive the car in a slightly more controlled manner but the gearbox is still disobedient and a joyless way to drive, I feel more like the ‘vehicle operator’ than the driver.

PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.

[ATTAK Z]

I love PDK in my 997.2 C2S

[blueg33]

Gerber1 said:

PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.

This remains a stupid and wrong comment.

[Carlson W6]

[Whaleblue]

Gerber1 said:

...
PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.

Er, no. No more than automated ignition advance/retard or synchromesh, for example.

It's just a method of changing gears that keeps the driver in control without an antiquated system. I've been driving for 37 years, and while manual boxes bettered autos, almost always chose the manual (and always for sports/sporting cars). Porsche's PDK is the ultimate 'manual' gearbox for the 10% (or whatever, but you know when I mean) of driving that warrants it. For the rest of the time it happens to be an excellent full-auto for traffic/motorway slogs.

Though I expect the 10% to go up, and the motorway slogs to go down when I get my PDK equipped Boxster.

[pete.g]

Gerber1 said:

Well I see some people’s egos were bruised during one of my previous posts, but yes I was having great fun on a beach although I hope my post didn’t ruin anyone’s Christmas.

Still I stand by my previous comment, nobody who can use a manual gearbox proficiently would choose the flappy paddle variant over it.

Almost a month in and I suppose I can drive the car in a slightly more controlled manner but the gearbox is still disobedient and a joyless way to drive, I feel more like the ‘vehicle operator’ than the driver.

PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.

I'm assuming you chose your nom de plume as you're still eating their baby food.

What is a baby troll called - a whelp?

[Whaleblue]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm sure when synchro was introduced the real drivers pooh-poohed it as removing affinity with the mechanicals and taking some of the skill out of driving. Or would have, had the internet existed at the time.

If you like stirring a stick to pock gear ratios, enjoy. Personally I find the PDK pretty much perfect.

[ATTAK Z]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Nobody has said, nor, I guess, will say that synchromesh is analogous to PDK ... you brought that concept into the discussion

[Whaleblue]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I did not make an analogy about the mechanism per se, merely gave examples of tasks that have been removed, or simplified for the driver's convenience. You choose to take anything I have to say on the subject and twist to your own ends. It's becomes pretty petty and boring.

Nonetheless, if we met in person I expect it would be a more interesting conversation, and I hope the similarities of what we both love (driving wonderful machinery) would make us more aligned than you might imagine. Which is kind of the point I've constantly tried to get across in my 'defence' of the 718 in light of what it stands for as an evolution of the breed.

Best,
Ian

[Edit] Spelling!

Edited by Whaleblue on Wednesday 28th December 21:28

[Gorsh]

Well said Whaleblue - I have no problem with people having different preferences - we are after all different (thank goodness or the world would be a boring place).

What annoys me is that some folk decide everyone who has a different opinion to theirs consider them totally wrong and/or stupid. The manual/PDK thing has been done to death and will never be agreed by all which is best - so it's about time those people who keep on and on about how right they are and everyone else is wrong just let it go and accept everyone has a legitimate opinion and preference - there is no right and wrong.

Most people who buy a Porsche are keen drivers (others buy them as a status symbol), and looking at the sales figures PDK massively outsells manual despite costing £2k more. This speaks for itself really what most drivers prefer - but there are some who prefer manual, and I respect that - just don't patronise those who like PDK by saying they are wrong.

[sidicks]

Gerber1 said:

Well I see some people’s egos were bruised during one of my previous posts, but yes I was having great fun on a beach although I hope my post didn’t ruin anyone’s Christmas.

Still I stand by my previous comment, nobody who can use a manual gearbox proficiently would choose the flappy paddle variant over it.

Almost a month in and I suppose I can drive the car in a slightly more controlled manner but the gearbox is still disobedient and a joyless way to drive, I feel more like the ‘vehicle operator’ than the driver.

PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.

You couldn't be more wrong. Again!

Maybe it's the user not the gearbox?!

[sidicks]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If you can choose what gear to be in at any particular point in time, then that's far more manual than automatic as it's the driver that is making the choice. Of course you are pulling a paddle not moving a stick, but the eve t is near enough the same.

But then you knew that already.

[braddo]

sidicks said:

If you can choose what gear to be in at any particular point in time, then that's far more manual than automatic as it's the driver that is making the choice. Of course you are pulling a paddle not moving a stick, but the eve t is near enough the same.

But then you knew that already.

I disagree, the gear choice might be manual via the pull of a switch, but there's far more automation than manual going on - the physical changing of gears, disengaging/engaging the clutches and throttle management are all automated.

It's basically no different to my old AMG automatic, where using the gear selector to choose gears manually meant there was no auto kick-down or changing up. The gear choice was as much mine as a 991 GT3 driver's, but it was a torque converter box rather than a dual clutch (and was less automated - no throttle blipping, which I had to do ).

[blueg33]

When people say manusl, they mean that you can choose which gear its in.

[blueg33]

Why is it the wrong word. You devide which gear uou wsnt and you manually operate a device to select thr gear.

Its not relevant whether its connected by a stixk, a stick abd a cable, a stick and some rods or a paddle and some electrons. The selection is done manually.

Getting hung up on semantics is a nonsense.

[av185]

Gerber1 said:

Still I stand by my previous comment, nobody who can use a manual gearbox proficiently would choose the flappy paddle variant over it.



PDK, for people who can’t drive or don’t care about driving.

Hardly.

As an enthusiast, I choose to drive my 991 GT3 with its fantastic PDK S gearbox on a similar number of occasions as I choose do drive my 'manuel' GT4 and my 'manuel' 981 Spyder. These cars are equally involving. In totally different ways.

And as an enthusiast, I will also be taking delivery of a 991.2 GT3, and haven't yet decided whether to have 'manuel' or PDK S. Either gearbox is suited to the car....there is no right or wrong.

If it was the case that PDK S is unsuitable for the GT3....why would even 3 year old +examples with mileage still be selling for a premium? :

[Whaleblue]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think you fail to grasp the limitations of internet discussion versus real world exchanges, where intent and perception are easily qualified and corrected. Choosing to see everything to your own advantage is purile.

As such, it's pointless trying to debate a subject with you online.

I tried.

[pete.g]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Porsche call it manual mode, and the dash display changes to 'M' - so the manufacturer (and inventor) of the gearbox is also using the wrong word.

Paddle-shift won't do - it does not take account of the ability to shift using the lever. Dual clutch applies no matter which mode is chosen.

All I can say is that when I'm driving in Sport or Sport Plus I use my hand to select the gear and that is clearly a manual operation.

[ATTAK Z]

pete.g said:

Porsche call it manual mode, and the dash display changes to 'M' - so the manufacturer (and inventor) of the gearbox is also using the wrong word.

Paddle-shift won't do - it does not take account of the ability to shift using the lever. Dual clutch applies no matter which mode is chosen.

All I can say is that when I'm driving in Sport or Sport Plus I use my hand to select the gear and that is clearly a manual operation.

just cmoose then

[e8_pack]

blueg33 said:

e8_pack said:

blueg33 said:

Am I missing something? Surely in manual mode its manual, you change using the paddles rather than a stick, but its still manual.

When I test drove a pdk Cayman gets, I thought the gearbox was amazing, in manual mode I could do my favourite roads quicker than in the manual evora, but it was less engaging than using a clutch pedal and a stick

You are missing the biggest fundamental point.

The gearstick indicates your gear selection by hand and feel, you don't need to think, it's instinctive, you know where you last put the gearstick and it stays there.

Unless they start making paddles with a gear position, then you'll constantly have to:

A: look at the readout or
B: count gears

Both remove concentration from driving, B is confounded by the car auto shifting making you lose count.

Completely disagree, you can tell which gear you are in by the tone of the engine, the speed the outside is moving past, the responsiveness of the throttle. You dont need a stick for that unless you are totally inexperienced. I rarely look at the read out and never count the gears. I also dont see why its ok to touch the stick to confirm a gear but not look at a readout right in front of you.

Edited by blueg33 on Wednesday 28th December 12:51

Why would you need to touch a gearstick to remember the gear you put it in seconds before hand? Unless you have the memory of a goldfish? You don't even think with a manual/Manuel/Emmanuel.

Hard going with fanboi's.