Struggling with PDK
Discussion
BigDaddyAdz said:
Technology moves on but some people simply can't . In 20 years Manuals won't exist. What does that tell you?
It tells me that the average person does not want a manual gearbox.In fact, I would wager that most people dont want to drive at all. And thats coming.
Whats your point?
mollytherocker said:
BigDaddyAdz said:
Technology moves on but some people simply can't . In 20 years Manuals won't exist. What does that tell you?
It tells me that the average person does not want a manual gearbox.In fact, I would wager that most people dont want to drive at all. And thats coming.
Whats your point?
I can't imagine sitting there ready to 'take manual control' in a squeaky bum moment. In 20yrs time, will we be allowed to?
I think in 20yrs no manuals will be the least of an enthusiasts worries.
Can't remember who it was but a journo predicted that sports cars as we know them now will go the way of horses and intend to agree with him I.e. the vast majority of people will have a self driving car, or more likely just use self driving ubers on a massive integrated network (which renders personal car ownership pointless). Those of us who enjoy driving will still get to do it as an expensive hobby, probably on roads that are much less congested 
On a side note I have a feeling that in 15 years it will be very unusual for the average person to be driving. Even as someone who enjoys driving, given the option of having an on demand self drive uber or my own personal car take me to work without me having to do anything is very appealing.
On a side note I have a feeling that in 15 years it will be very unusual for the average person to be driving. Even as someone who enjoys driving, given the option of having an on demand self drive uber or my own personal car take me to work without me having to do anything is very appealing.
I am an enthusiast, I've had a few decent cars over the years and I have a few bikes now, the Cayman I have just bought is my first Porsche and has a PDK gearbox. To me the gearbox is first class and does a better job than I can. I'm no racing driver, I'm also no wannabe who thinks he is a racing driver as I suspect many on here think they are. I don't see what there is not to like about the PDK?
It's the same old story about carbs vs FI. Old technology vs new technology but some people think that it's a bad thing. Technology moves on and having to manually change and the gears is in my opinion old fashioned
It's the same old story about carbs vs FI. Old technology vs new technology but some people think that it's a bad thing. Technology moves on and having to manually change and the gears is in my opinion old fashioned
braddo said:
Yes, that's all it is.
Some people enjoy driving manual cars. For those people, PDK is not a substitute, nor is any other automatic gearbox. It doesn't mean people should forget about manual gearboxes, nor does it mean people can't enjoy PDK etc.
Agreed, but i think the main point he was trying to make was that enjoying PDK des not necessarily make you less of an enthusiast!Some people enjoy driving manual cars. For those people, PDK is not a substitute, nor is any other automatic gearbox. It doesn't mean people should forget about manual gearboxes, nor does it mean people can't enjoy PDK etc.
sidicks said:
Agreed, but i think the main point he was trying to make was that enjoying PDK des not necessarily make you less of an enthusiast!
I disagree, that is the main point you bring up all the time.His main point was he thinks people who like manuals are living in the past, should stop their b
hing, move with the times and get a PDK car.BigDaddyAdz said:
I am an enthusiast, I've had a few decent cars over the years and I have a few bikes now, the Cayman I have just bought is my first Porsche and has a PDK gearbox. To me the gearbox is first class and does a better job than I can. I'm no racing driver, I'm also no wannabe who thinks he is a racing driver as I suspect many on here think they are. I don't see what there is not to like about the PDK?
It's the same old story about carbs vs FI. Old technology vs new technology but some people think that it's a bad thing. Technology moves on and having to manually change and the gears is in my opinion old fashioned
New tech is more advanced than old tech, we know. Thats not the point.It's the same old story about carbs vs FI. Old technology vs new technology but some people think that it's a bad thing. Technology moves on and having to manually change and the gears is in my opinion old fashioned
PDK does indeed do a better job than any human. I dont think anybody disagrees with that.
Very soon, cars will steer, brake and accelerate better than any human too. Elon Musk believes that he has a car that already achieves this. And he may be right.
You are out of a job. Superseded and redundant. You wont be driving anymore, you will not be allowed to by law.
This is what we a talking about. Its called driving.
I have a manual 981, but drove the PDK, and thought it was a nice gear box and very quick.
Also drove the Ftype auto on a track event with Jag at the top gear track and found both gearboxes in sport very good.
But, I bought the manual, just because I like manuals.
I think if you want to drive fast in pdk, you just floor it, and it copes well. Back of and it will change up of course, but press on again, and in a flash its screaming away out the bend, or on the straight.
It just feels unnatural to put it in manual on a road to some, but most should find the pdk plenty fast enough to do anything on a road today in sport.
On a track, the Jag in sport was great to drive with quick changes, but I suspect the porsche pdk would be even better.
Gadgit
Also drove the Ftype auto on a track event with Jag at the top gear track and found both gearboxes in sport very good.
But, I bought the manual, just because I like manuals.
I think if you want to drive fast in pdk, you just floor it, and it copes well. Back of and it will change up of course, but press on again, and in a flash its screaming away out the bend, or on the straight.
It just feels unnatural to put it in manual on a road to some, but most should find the pdk plenty fast enough to do anything on a road today in sport.
On a track, the Jag in sport was great to drive with quick changes, but I suspect the porsche pdk would be even better.
Gadgit
BigDaddyAdz said:
I'm no racing driver, I'm also no wannabe who thinks he is a racing driver as I suspect many on here think they are. I don't see what there is not to like about the PDK?
Given the object of racing is winning, to do that you pretty much need an automated-manual gearbox in most modern categories.So those of us who love a real manual, enjoy mastering clutch, throttle and brake and generally being in full control of the car. Even if that makes us slower...
Perhaps that makes us less of a racing wannabe than you?
I'm also quite happy to drive a car with carbies, or fuel injection if it's good to drive...
Edited by Sustenpass on Sunday 29th January 01:42
Sustenpass said:
... and generally being in full control of the car. Even if that makes us slower...
Full control?What about automated ignition timing? Assisted brakes and steering? Would you prefer control of these given back to you?
It's just a degree of automation, and PDK is obviously one step too far for some. I, and others, don't miss the clutch.
For me to balance the car round the corners on the best line I can manage is what 'driving' is all about, and is the part I personally most enjoy. For that I'll be in 'manual mode'* to ensure I can choose the points of change. It can then be put in auto for the times where I am in town, or generally in stop-start traffic.
- And happy that if I do something so stupid that it overrides me - these cars aren't cheap to repair!
Whaleblue said:
Full control?
What about automated ignition timing? Assisted brakes and steering? Would you prefer control of these given back to you?
Now, can we stop telling the other lot they're wrong, whichever one personally prefers is the right choice. Simples!
Yes, it's pretty frustrating that I can't adjust ignition timing while driving nowadays. Tag Heuer made a great manually adjustable ignition timer in the '60s but they're hard to find now... But I'll leave that to the many ignition timing threads.What about automated ignition timing? Assisted brakes and steering? Would you prefer control of these given back to you?
Now, can we stop telling the other lot they're wrong, whichever one personally prefers is the right choice. Simples!
My post was addressing the curious 'racing driver wannabe' accusation, which seems to a favourite argument from the 'no point in a manual' crowd.
i daily my Audi tt mk1 Quattro manual for 15 years before getting a mk3 12 months ago, which is only available in S tronic nowadays. Please don't start teasing / slagging me off straight away as I am getting the 718 S to replace the mk3, but I posted this tread because I can't decide between manual or pdk.
the mk3 is 2 decades faster than my mk1, but I feel that my old car is a million times more enjoyable to drive, for the reasons below, but I also would like to ask you guys if my below experience applies to Cayman manuals vs pdks:
1. manual vs s tronic gearbox. During the mk3 test drive the car was v fast & easy to drive & I knew at the time it wasn't as enjoyable as my mk 1 manual but I made the big mistake of buying it for looks. After owning the mk3 for 2 hours, or a bit less, I just gave up on the paddles. 1st of all the cabin & the s tropic are so quiet & smooth I simply can't tell when to change gear without looking at the LED Screen. This is exactly the same experience when I GT Turismo on my playstation! In my old car I know my revs (& even speed, roughly) from the sound & vibrations. Also, the auto keeps overriding me both ways which is a blxxdy pain. So now I just leave the damn thing in auto & switch to S when I need to overtake. 3rdly, the tiny black plastic flaps simply crap.
- test drived the pdk (manual not available in my city) & basically I was overwhelmed, knows when to paddle shift without looking at the screen! However having read Gerber1' s thread here , & my experience from TT, I am a little worried I might end up making the wrong choice of pdk only to be discovered after owning the car for a period of time. My daily involves 1 hour down the motorway & 1 hour of start-stop slow traffic & sometimes after a long day can be very painful in my Mk1 manual TT (which I still own).
2. Speed. The mk3 as you know is reasonably fast, but just doesn't feel the thrill. Legging it each time is just a matter of seeing the numbers on the LED going up, thats it.
-Do pdk drivers have this feeling?
3. The 718 S will be the fastest car I ever owned. I am just a very average driver. Any manual cayman drivers can advise on this please, how easy can this super fast rear wheel car with manual gearbox loose its rear especially I am not very good in heel toe (unmod mk1 TT too Quattro stable & under steer & slow to ever need heel toe). The Mk3 auto with Quattro is basically made too safe to ever loosing control.
4. Clutch weight . My mk1' s clutch is pretty heavy. Anybody driven both this & 718 S & able to provide a comparison please?
Advise appreciated as I am hoping to put my deposit down within the next few weeks....
regards.
NB. & I am not a hairdresser thanks.
the mk3 is 2 decades faster than my mk1, but I feel that my old car is a million times more enjoyable to drive, for the reasons below, but I also would like to ask you guys if my below experience applies to Cayman manuals vs pdks:
1. manual vs s tronic gearbox. During the mk3 test drive the car was v fast & easy to drive & I knew at the time it wasn't as enjoyable as my mk 1 manual but I made the big mistake of buying it for looks. After owning the mk3 for 2 hours, or a bit less, I just gave up on the paddles. 1st of all the cabin & the s tropic are so quiet & smooth I simply can't tell when to change gear without looking at the LED Screen. This is exactly the same experience when I GT Turismo on my playstation! In my old car I know my revs (& even speed, roughly) from the sound & vibrations. Also, the auto keeps overriding me both ways which is a blxxdy pain. So now I just leave the damn thing in auto & switch to S when I need to overtake. 3rdly, the tiny black plastic flaps simply crap.
- test drived the pdk (manual not available in my city) & basically I was overwhelmed, knows when to paddle shift without looking at the screen! However having read Gerber1' s thread here , & my experience from TT, I am a little worried I might end up making the wrong choice of pdk only to be discovered after owning the car for a period of time. My daily involves 1 hour down the motorway & 1 hour of start-stop slow traffic & sometimes after a long day can be very painful in my Mk1 manual TT (which I still own).
2. Speed. The mk3 as you know is reasonably fast, but just doesn't feel the thrill. Legging it each time is just a matter of seeing the numbers on the LED going up, thats it.
-Do pdk drivers have this feeling?
3. The 718 S will be the fastest car I ever owned. I am just a very average driver. Any manual cayman drivers can advise on this please, how easy can this super fast rear wheel car with manual gearbox loose its rear especially I am not very good in heel toe (unmod mk1 TT too Quattro stable & under steer & slow to ever need heel toe). The Mk3 auto with Quattro is basically made too safe to ever loosing control.
4. Clutch weight . My mk1' s clutch is pretty heavy. Anybody driven both this & 718 S & able to provide a comparison please?
Advise appreciated as I am hoping to put my deposit down within the next few weeks....
regards.
NB. & I am not a hairdresser thanks.
Edited by Bubbledragon on Wednesday 1st February 19:39
Bubbledragon said:
i daily my Audi tt mk1 Quattro manual for 15 years before getting a mk3 12 months ago, which is only available in S tronic nowadays. Please don't start teasing / slagging me off straight away as I am getting the 718 S to replace the mk3, but I posted this tread because I can't decide between manual or pdk.
the mk3 is 2 decades faster than my mk1, but I feel that my old car is a million times more enjoyable to drive, for the reasons below, but I also would like to ask you guys if my below experience applies to Cayman manuals vs pdks:
1. manual vs s tronic gearbox. During the mk3 test drive the car was v fast & easy to drive & I knew at the time it wasn't as enjoyable as my mk 1 manual but I made the big mistake of buying it for looks. After owning the mk3 for 2 hours, or a bit less, I just gave up on the paddles. 1st of all the cabin & the s tropic are so quiet & smooth I simply can't tell when to change gear without looking at the LED Screen. This is exactly the same experience when I GT Turismo on my playstation! In my old car I know my revs (& even speed, roughly) from the sound & vibrations. Also, the auto keeps overriding me both ways which is a blxxdy pain. So now I just leave the damn thing in auto & switch to S when I need to overtake. 3rdly, the tiny black plastic flaps simply crap.
- test drived the pdk (manual not available in my city) & basically I was overwhelmed, knows when to paddle shift without looking at the screen! However having read Gerber1' s thread here , & my experience from TT, I am a little worried I might end up making the wrong choice of pdk only to be discovered after owning the car for a period of time. My daily involves 1 hour down the motorway & 1 hour of start-stop slow traffic & sometimes after a long day can be very painful in my Mk1 manual TT (which I still own).
2. Speed. The mk3 as you know is reasonably fast, but just doesn't feel the thrill. Legging it each time is just a matter of seeing the numbers on the LED going up, thats it.
-Do pdk drivers have this feeling?
3. The 718 S will be the fastest car I ever owned. I am just a very average driver. Any manual cayman drivers can advise on this please, how easy can this super fast rear wheel car with manual gearbox loose its rear especially I am not very good in heel toe (unmod mk1 TT too Quattro stable & under steer & slow to ever need heel toe). The Mk3 auto with Quattro is basically made too safe to ever loosing control.
4. Clutch weight . My mk1' s clutch is pretty heavy. Anybody driven both this & 718 S & able to provide a comparison please?
Advise appreciated as I am hoping to put my deposit down within the next few weeks....
regards.
NB. & I am not a hairdresser thanks.
I came to my Cayman via the TT route... a 225 Quattro which I loved, sadly I woke one Sunday morning to find I no longer had it. It's was more fun to drive that it's replacement, a MK2 TTS, manual. I kept the TTS for 5yrs, it was a decent car, nice place to be and fast but ultimately unrewarding... the mk3 is 2 decades faster than my mk1, but I feel that my old car is a million times more enjoyable to drive, for the reasons below, but I also would like to ask you guys if my below experience applies to Cayman manuals vs pdks:
1. manual vs s tronic gearbox. During the mk3 test drive the car was v fast & easy to drive & I knew at the time it wasn't as enjoyable as my mk 1 manual but I made the big mistake of buying it for looks. After owning the mk3 for 2 hours, or a bit less, I just gave up on the paddles. 1st of all the cabin & the s tropic are so quiet & smooth I simply can't tell when to change gear without looking at the LED Screen. This is exactly the same experience when I GT Turismo on my playstation! In my old car I know my revs (& even speed, roughly) from the sound & vibrations. Also, the auto keeps overriding me both ways which is a blxxdy pain. So now I just leave the damn thing in auto & switch to S when I need to overtake. 3rdly, the tiny black plastic flaps simply crap.
- test drived the pdk (manual not available in my city) & basically I was overwhelmed, knows when to paddle shift without looking at the screen! However having read Gerber1' s thread here , & my experience from TT, I am a little worried I might end up making the wrong choice of pdk only to be discovered after owning the car for a period of time. My daily involves 1 hour down the motorway & 1 hour of start-stop slow traffic & sometimes after a long day can be very painful in my Mk1 manual TT (which I still own).
2. Speed. The mk3 as you know is reasonably fast, but just doesn't feel the thrill. Legging it each time is just a matter of seeing the numbers on the LED going up, thats it.
-Do pdk drivers have this feeling?
3. The 718 S will be the fastest car I ever owned. I am just a very average driver. Any manual cayman drivers can advise on this please, how easy can this super fast rear wheel car with manual gearbox loose its rear especially I am not very good in heel toe (unmod mk1 TT too Quattro stable & under steer & slow to ever need heel toe). The Mk3 auto with Quattro is basically made too safe to ever loosing control.
4. Clutch weight . My mk1' s clutch is pretty heavy. Anybody driven both this & 718 S & able to provide a comparison please?
Advise appreciated as I am hoping to put my deposit down within the next few weeks....
regards.
NB. & I am not a hairdresser thanks.
Edited by Bubbledragon on Wednesday 1st February 19:39
The 981 Cayman was only radar for a few years but I did have a look at the MK3 TTS, an hours test drive told me what you already know. This one was an S tronic, bloody fast but I found that even less involving than my own car. To be honest I wasn't surprised and my heart was set on a Cayman.
Mine is a PDK. I've always had manual cars, but I love it. Not from the point of view that I think it's better than a manual, I don't. It's just another approach with its own rewards. You lose in some ways and gain in others. Re Gerber1's issues with the PDK, like others have posted, I don't recognise them. In manual mode I change up and down the box when I want to... it does change down on its own to prevent stalling which is no bad thing...
Get drives in both manual and PDK config and decide for yourself... it's the only way.
Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 2nd February 04:29
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