Would you buy a 987 Boxster with 106k on the clock?
Discussion
Is it going to open up a world of pain?
Or am I getting a car in it's prime that has all the dodgy stuff sorted?
Yours optimistically and looking through rose tinted specs.................. 9k, 2005, and 106k on the clock.
Bi-Xenon Lighting System, Porsche Active Suspension Management, Porsche Communication Management Sys, Porsche Stability Management, Alloy Wheels - 19in Sport Design, Heated Seats, Porsche Crest Embossed on Head Restraints, 6 CD Autochanger, Bose Sound System, Wind Deflector, Electric Memory Seats, Cruise Control, Automatic Climate Control, Telephone Module for PCM, Parking Assistance, Sports Exhaust, Three Spoke Multi Function Steering Wheel/Leather, Speakers, Traction Control, Rear Spoiler, Radio, Engine Immobiliser, Electric Adjustable Seats, Adjustable Steering, Auxiliary Heating, Passenger Airbag, Drivers Airbag, Power Assisted Steering,
Sports Exhaust, Lovely Very Well Spec'd Boxster With Lots Of Invoices And One Showing A new Clutch Fitted By Porsche.
J
Or am I getting a car in it's prime that has all the dodgy stuff sorted?
Yours optimistically and looking through rose tinted specs.................. 9k, 2005, and 106k on the clock.
Bi-Xenon Lighting System, Porsche Active Suspension Management, Porsche Communication Management Sys, Porsche Stability Management, Alloy Wheels - 19in Sport Design, Heated Seats, Porsche Crest Embossed on Head Restraints, 6 CD Autochanger, Bose Sound System, Wind Deflector, Electric Memory Seats, Cruise Control, Automatic Climate Control, Telephone Module for PCM, Parking Assistance, Sports Exhaust, Three Spoke Multi Function Steering Wheel/Leather, Speakers, Traction Control, Rear Spoiler, Radio, Engine Immobiliser, Electric Adjustable Seats, Adjustable Steering, Auxiliary Heating, Passenger Airbag, Drivers Airbag, Power Assisted Steering,
Sports Exhaust, Lovely Very Well Spec'd Boxster With Lots Of Invoices And One Showing A new Clutch Fitted By Porsche.
J
At that mileage and age there a lots of items that will be well past their best unless they've been replaced already.
I bought a low spec 2.7 6 year old 986 years ago with 115k miles from the original owner. It came with £14k of OPC invoices for wear and tear items (excluding tyres!) but drove like a car with a fraction of the miles and highlighted what it takes to keep the effects of age and mileage at bay (though an indy specialist or DIY approach would have been a lot cheaper!). We also had a 120k miles early 986S which also came with lots of invoices but we still had to sort a number of issues.
There are lots of 987 buyers guides around but off the top of my head the things that will need close inspection at that age/mileage include:
Suspension, steering - control arms, drop links, top mounts, inner and outer track rod ends, anti roll bar bushes, shocks all round
Brakes - discs, pads, pipework and caliper condition all round
Cooling system - rads, rubber and metal pipes and connectors, water pump
Aircon - condensers, pipework (also prone to jacking damage)
Engine and transmission - mounts, drive shaft gaiters and joints, wheel bearings, clutch, dual mass flywheel, rear main seal oil leaks, coil packs, AOS, lamda sensors
Body - window regulators, door locks, door membranes
Pretty much all of the above had either already been done or needed doing on our two 100k + 986 Boxsters. Quite a few were also needed on my other younger/lower miles 986S and 987S Boxster and Cayman too.
A few are not show stoppers but spoil the enjoyment of the car if not sorted.
Standard advice is to get an independant inspection and keep some cash in reserve for emergent issues on an older car.
I bought a low spec 2.7 6 year old 986 years ago with 115k miles from the original owner. It came with £14k of OPC invoices for wear and tear items (excluding tyres!) but drove like a car with a fraction of the miles and highlighted what it takes to keep the effects of age and mileage at bay (though an indy specialist or DIY approach would have been a lot cheaper!). We also had a 120k miles early 986S which also came with lots of invoices but we still had to sort a number of issues.
There are lots of 987 buyers guides around but off the top of my head the things that will need close inspection at that age/mileage include:
Suspension, steering - control arms, drop links, top mounts, inner and outer track rod ends, anti roll bar bushes, shocks all round
Brakes - discs, pads, pipework and caliper condition all round
Cooling system - rads, rubber and metal pipes and connectors, water pump
Aircon - condensers, pipework (also prone to jacking damage)
Engine and transmission - mounts, drive shaft gaiters and joints, wheel bearings, clutch, dual mass flywheel, rear main seal oil leaks, coil packs, AOS, lamda sensors
Body - window regulators, door locks, door membranes
Pretty much all of the above had either already been done or needed doing on our two 100k + 986 Boxsters. Quite a few were also needed on my other younger/lower miles 986S and 987S Boxster and Cayman too.
A few are not show stoppers but spoil the enjoyment of the car if not sorted.
Standard advice is to get an independant inspection and keep some cash in reserve for emergent issues on an older car.
Wouldn't worry too much about the mileage especially if the history shows things like a clutch, aos, coil packs, etc, have been replaced. Boxster prices are down a bit at the moment though, so it would depend very much on what you were being asked to pay. I'm a bit biased on that score though, I didn't pay much for mine at the height of last summer, and it's turned out to be a great car. If it's 9k and room to haggle, that would seem like a cheap car. I'm assuming it's an S with the red calipers, as an aside, I deliberately sought out a 3.2, best compromise for me with regard to performance, reliability and resale value.
All good advice in the post above this as well.
All good advice in the post above this as well.
Edited by Heaveho on Saturday 18th February 10:36
Edited by Heaveho on Saturday 18th February 10:40
Sometimes though, it's too easy to discard an "old" car rather than pay to keep it going. My lovely £40,000 2003 E46 330ci MSport cab had done 125k miles by 2014 and had had a few thousand spent on gearbox and suspension. Engine and body were sound.
I sold it for £4,500 as it was "starting to cost money".
Then I lost £8k in 15 months with a newish TTS, and then spent another £40k on my 981.
So, in another eight years when the Cayman is 11 and has done £150k miles I could ditch it and start again OR... consider it to be a classic and spend less than the £36,000 difference between purchase and sale price on "restoring" it.
OK, so I lose the advantage of a new, electric, autonomous, 984, but I'm at the point where these advances are pissing me off.
Wife's new BMW X1 for instance suddenly slammed on its brakes so hard the ABS activated when it "thought" an oncoming truck was too close. I saw it and took no avoiding action as there was no danger. Anyway, I digress. Buy it but don't think it's a cheap car. It may well cost you another £30k over the next five years. Buy a newer, say £19K, Boxster and it may only cost you 20k. Buy a £29k one and it may only cost £10k... etc, etc.
Remember, whatever you buy, old or new, you'll never win financially with cars. It just seems easier to spend more money on a newer car because it "must be perfect" and has a warranty. Madness really when you see how any car can be saved in the TV shows.
I sold it for £4,500 as it was "starting to cost money".
Then I lost £8k in 15 months with a newish TTS, and then spent another £40k on my 981.
So, in another eight years when the Cayman is 11 and has done £150k miles I could ditch it and start again OR... consider it to be a classic and spend less than the £36,000 difference between purchase and sale price on "restoring" it.
OK, so I lose the advantage of a new, electric, autonomous, 984, but I'm at the point where these advances are pissing me off.
Wife's new BMW X1 for instance suddenly slammed on its brakes so hard the ABS activated when it "thought" an oncoming truck was too close. I saw it and took no avoiding action as there was no danger. Anyway, I digress. Buy it but don't think it's a cheap car. It may well cost you another £30k over the next five years. Buy a newer, say £19K, Boxster and it may only cost you 20k. Buy a £29k one and it may only cost £10k... etc, etc.
Remember, whatever you buy, old or new, you'll never win financially with cars. It just seems easier to spend more money on a newer car because it "must be perfect" and has a warranty. Madness really when you see how any car can be saved in the TV shows.
Have a read here. Lots of talk about cheap porsche cars. Perhaps start at the end as this is most up to date.
My view is this could be a great buy. All 2nd hand cars cost money to keep tip top. Porsche sports cars are perhaps more expensive to keep tip top because the suspension is not designed to age well it is designed to drive well. So as it gets tired it will show. You could just live with it and enjoy or make it better and enjoy more maybe.
Don't buy a 2nd hand porsche thinking it is cheap. Buy one because you want one. Then be prepared for surprise bills.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My view is this could be a great buy. All 2nd hand cars cost money to keep tip top. Porsche sports cars are perhaps more expensive to keep tip top because the suspension is not designed to age well it is designed to drive well. So as it gets tired it will show. You could just live with it and enjoy or make it better and enjoy more maybe.
Don't buy a 2nd hand porsche thinking it is cheap. Buy one because you want one. Then be prepared for surprise bills.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
DJMC....... 100% agree with all that you said....when something goes wrong today, you are looking at many thousands rather than a few hundred.
At least the clutch should be fine, and the rear engine seal should have been replaced at the same time........ Should have been, but was it.
Normally these things tend to be sold with approaching problems which as you say, can all be fixed for a price.
If you can do things yourself you can save thousands, but the engine will be the disaster point if that gives way. Its one of those jobs to sink your heart if that pops.
I have never had an engine go on me, and Financially I'm ok but if it did go bang I would be gutted, and I would never buy another Porsche.
So what does he do.....
Spend 6-8 hundred a year on a warranty (if he can get one) or risk 8k-10k on an engine.
Personally in that position, I would spend 3k more and buy a Z4.....I think.
With 50k miles on the clock......they are available......
Gadgit
At least the clutch should be fine, and the rear engine seal should have been replaced at the same time........ Should have been, but was it.
Normally these things tend to be sold with approaching problems which as you say, can all be fixed for a price.
If you can do things yourself you can save thousands, but the engine will be the disaster point if that gives way. Its one of those jobs to sink your heart if that pops.
I have never had an engine go on me, and Financially I'm ok but if it did go bang I would be gutted, and I would never buy another Porsche.
So what does he do.....
Spend 6-8 hundred a year on a warranty (if he can get one) or risk 8k-10k on an engine.
Personally in that position, I would spend 3k more and buy a Z4.....I think.
With 50k miles on the clock......they are available......
Gadgit
Edited by gadgit on Saturday 18th February 19:33
gadgit said:
There is a simple answer to this question!
If you live with your mum and dad, earn good money, not getting married in the near future, don't have a large mortgage, or any kids, then yes.
If any of the above apply........ NO........ Its just not worth the risk.
Gadgit.
Why so? Any direct experience or just "well, after 100k miles it's knackered, blimey think of the bills"? Because I buy all my sheds around 100k and they all work. Some better than others but none catastrophic. Edc's comments just below yours are in line with what I'd expect. 10 years, 100k, bits of brakes and suspension, brake pipes rusty, a few engine service parts and maybe a wheel bearing or two. Currency on any car, and if you are in a smart example of a 40k car for less than a quarter of that sum then a fair price to pay.If you live with your mum and dad, earn good money, not getting married in the near future, don't have a large mortgage, or any kids, then yes.
If any of the above apply........ NO........ Its just not worth the risk.
Gadgit.
I have a 13 year old Mini CS on 58k miles and FMSH. I've had it for about 7 years and it has 1 previous owner. The point ? It has things that go wrong with it because it is old, not because it has done a million miles. I have a noisy wheel bearing, the power steering pump went, the rear wiper motor stopped, rear caliper seized, engine chain tensioner seized, belt tensioner failed, exhausted rotted and snapped. None of it major I guess but the point is that this was nothing to do with mileage - just age.
On the other hand, I had a SEAT Leon from new, did 98k miles in 6 years and it was remapped and played around with. It only ever chewed clutches up due to the remap and I had no other issues at all (only dampers and that was mileage).
I would say that on 105k miles it has been used regularly and not sat around, will have some consumable items due, but is likely to be fine if it has good history and looks to have been looked after. But it is a Porsche and as well engineered as they are - they aint cheap to fix. A keen purchase price, eyes wide open and a small stash of rainy day money should see you through!
On the other hand, I had a SEAT Leon from new, did 98k miles in 6 years and it was remapped and played around with. It only ever chewed clutches up due to the remap and I had no other issues at all (only dampers and that was mileage).
I would say that on 105k miles it has been used regularly and not sat around, will have some consumable items due, but is likely to be fine if it has good history and looks to have been looked after. But it is a Porsche and as well engineered as they are - they aint cheap to fix. A keen purchase price, eyes wide open and a small stash of rainy day money should see you through!
Hang on......
Some of you are loosing the plot chaps, or is it me?
Correct me if I'm wrong but he's buying a Porsche not a shed....
Sheds are normally cheap to buy, and reasonable to repair, or at least worth making the effort to get it back on the road.
9k is not a shed, and 10k for another engine makes it not worth it?
Gadgit
Some of you are loosing the plot chaps, or is it me?
Correct me if I'm wrong but he's buying a Porsche not a shed....
Sheds are normally cheap to buy, and reasonable to repair, or at least worth making the effort to get it back on the road.
9k is not a shed, and 10k for another engine makes it not worth it?
Gadgit
Jazzert501 said:
Is it going to open up a world of pain?
Or am I getting a car in it's prime that has all the dodgy stuff sorted?
Yours optimistically and looking through rose tinted specs.................. 9k, 2005, and 106k on the clock.
Bi-Xenon Lighting System, Porsche Active Suspension Management, Porsche Communication Management Sys, Porsche Stability Management, Alloy Wheels - 19in Sport Design, Heated Seats, Porsche Crest Embossed on Head Restraints, 6 CD Autochanger, Bose Sound System, Wind Deflector, Electric Memory Seats, Cruise Control, Automatic Climate Control, Telephone Module for PCM, Parking Assistance, Sports Exhaust, Three Spoke Multi Function Steering Wheel/Leather, Speakers, Traction Control, Rear Spoiler, Radio, Engine Immobiliser, Electric Adjustable Seats, Adjustable Steering, Auxiliary Heating, Passenger Airbag, Drivers Airbag, Power Assisted Steering,
Sports Exhaust, Lovely Very Well Spec'd Boxster With Lots Of Invoices And One Showing A new Clutch Fitted By Porsche.
J
No one can say. While some things have been taken care of as you use the car other things will need attention.Or am I getting a car in it's prime that has all the dodgy stuff sorted?
Yours optimistically and looking through rose tinted specs.................. 9k, 2005, and 106k on the clock.
Bi-Xenon Lighting System, Porsche Active Suspension Management, Porsche Communication Management Sys, Porsche Stability Management, Alloy Wheels - 19in Sport Design, Heated Seats, Porsche Crest Embossed on Head Restraints, 6 CD Autochanger, Bose Sound System, Wind Deflector, Electric Memory Seats, Cruise Control, Automatic Climate Control, Telephone Module for PCM, Parking Assistance, Sports Exhaust, Three Spoke Multi Function Steering Wheel/Leather, Speakers, Traction Control, Rear Spoiler, Radio, Engine Immobiliser, Electric Adjustable Seats, Adjustable Steering, Auxiliary Heating, Passenger Airbag, Drivers Airbag, Power Assisted Steering,
Sports Exhaust, Lovely Very Well Spec'd Boxster With Lots Of Invoices And One Showing A new Clutch Fitted By Porsche.
J
All you can do is give the car proper servicing and be on the lookout for any issues.
My 2002 Boxster needed a new AOS around 80K miles. A wheel bearing around the 90K miles mark. O2 sensors around the 100K mile mark.
Didn't need a water pump until 172K miles. A new fuel pump at around 200K+ miles. Coolant tank. (Can't recall the miles, now.) Oh, and another AOS. (These last around 80K/100K+ miles is my experience.)
Some "little" stuff like brake/clutch interlock switches. Coolant cap. (It leaked before I had the coolant tank replaced.) Oil filler tube cap (these last around 150K miles is my experience.) CV boots. (The bearings were cleaned and inspected and found to be ok so the bearings were repacked and put back into service. 50K+ miles later they are still good.) Door lock controller. Window regulators. Door membranes. A radiator fan. Gas cap tether broke and I replaced the gas cap. The old cap's sealing rubber was pretty near shot but the cap was not leaking, but probably not far from it. What else? Oh yeah, the spark plug tube o-rings were leaking and shot and replaced before 300K miles.
The "biggie" was a VarioCam solenoid/actuator around the 250/275K mile mark. (The plastic guide rails were just fine the solenoid failed and in such a way -- intermittently -- it wore out the actuator.) The other bank's solenoid and actuator and rails are original.
Somewhere in there I suspected the MAF was bad and replaced it. Turned out to be a leaking oil filler tube cap. The replacement MAF failed after around 100K miles and I installed the orginal MAF (which I had saved) and it is still working just fine with in total over 200K miles on it.
The top leaked after about 14 or 15 years and I had an aftermarket (GAHH) top installed.
The clutch is original and so are the coils. The car is on its 3rd AOS.
Shocks are fine. Ditto steering and the suspension. When I have the car in for service -- at least every 5K miles for oil/filter services -- I ask the techs about the shocks/suspension. They tell me as long as the shocks are not leaking to not bother. The suspenion/steering passes a senior tech's road test and the car holds its alignment with no problems. Rear tire life runs about 20K+ miles and the tire wear is even across the tread face. Front tires last double that 20K miles.
The car will cost some to keep on the road but the biggest cost of owning a car is its depreciation and by buying a higher mileage car -- that passes a thorough used car check out with flying colors -- saves you considerably on depreciation and what you have to spend to keep the car on the road should not be anywhere near what deprecation would cost.
Just had my 2002 Boxster with over 308K miles fitted with a new set of Michelin tires and had the rear brakes done. (Warning light was on, has been on off and on for several thousand miles now.) Cost of tires and brakes was around $2K (US) which represents a good precentage of the car's value. Still I can't replace the car for $2K. Since the car still runs good and looks pretty good what the heck.
I think 9k or less is a decent price if it's an S. It looks like it is, and it's a higher spec car than mine. Have I missed what capacity the engine is? In as much as you can ever be with regard to Porsche ownership, I'm reasonably risk averse, and regard the 3.4 rightly or wrongly as potentially the most troublesome, and the 2.7 as potentially the most difficult to sell easily, hence my preference for the 3.2, in my mind, the best compromise as a package. I'm not saying don't buy the others, just do enough homework to save yourself unexpected surprises or disappointments.
One way I look at it is, if you have to spend upwards of a grand on it that you didn't see coming, soon after purchase, will the price you pay for the car still leave you feeling ok or will it cause financial stress. No car's worth having if your financial position means the cost of ownership prevents you from enjoying it. Best of luck.
One way I look at it is, if you have to spend upwards of a grand on it that you didn't see coming, soon after purchase, will the price you pay for the car still leave you feeling ok or will it cause financial stress. No car's worth having if your financial position means the cost of ownership prevents you from enjoying it. Best of luck.
Edited by Heaveho on Monday 20th February 19:33
Select your mechanic before your car. Often they can direct you to a good car.
Find a water cooled P-car mechanic that has a process defined for doing a Pre-purchase inspection (PPI) on a P-car. At a minimum, it should include an examination of the oil filter, inspection of the tires and their wear, a road test, etc. Mine was three pages long. Took at least 2 hours to do and was thoroughly gone over with me and the seller. This removes any asymmetry of information about the car (seller generally know lots more than you do). In my case I know I'd be spending several thousands in bringing maintenance up to date, new brakes, new tires, alignment, etc. Nothing major. The car was wonderful for the next 5 or so years I owned it. It is now two owners beyond me and still going strong.
There are 300k Boxsters used as daily drivers. Not every car gets there.
It all depends on the price, your willingness to accept the risk that any older used car brings and the state of your bank account after the transaction.
Find a water cooled P-car mechanic that has a process defined for doing a Pre-purchase inspection (PPI) on a P-car. At a minimum, it should include an examination of the oil filter, inspection of the tires and their wear, a road test, etc. Mine was three pages long. Took at least 2 hours to do and was thoroughly gone over with me and the seller. This removes any asymmetry of information about the car (seller generally know lots more than you do). In my case I know I'd be spending several thousands in bringing maintenance up to date, new brakes, new tires, alignment, etc. Nothing major. The car was wonderful for the next 5 or so years I owned it. It is now two owners beyond me and still going strong.
There are 300k Boxsters used as daily drivers. Not every car gets there.
It all depends on the price, your willingness to accept the risk that any older used car brings and the state of your bank account after the transaction.
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