996 engine/transmission failures - action time
Discussion
I cannot beleive that Porsche aren't prepared to do anything...
So, if you work in a OPC you can drop any sort of clangers(I've had to change my words as this is a family forum!!) and then blame the owner!!!.....
what happens for example if some "technician" forgets to tighten up some thing or fit something properly blows an engine up on a "test drive"...
sorry sir, it was like that when you brought it in!!!....
I have been looking for a 996 for a while now but with this revalation, I might not bother!!!...
I understand that some people mis-treat their cars but your not buying a Ford or are you paying Ford prices!!...
Common Porsche even Skoda's have got a good realiable reputation now!!!!....
Now is the time for action so as they say, next, "it could be you..."
Upshot of all this is that 996's will become the 964's of the future-still desireable but without the fantastic residuals of the 993. Whilst you can be sure a 993 is mechnically sound-every 964 is treated with suspicion of the need of a top-end rebuild. I hope that sooner or later, specialists can find a way of rebuilding engines for a reasonable price to make the purchase of a 996 for £20k to be a viable one (ie not £20k car and another 9k for when the engine goes pop!)
Yes, the complacency of Porsche owners here and on other forums is disgusting.
300 Freelander owners managed to get themselves together to start a class action against MG Rover and that was over a head gasket!
The trouble with owning a Porsche is that everyone (including Porsche it seems) thinks that you must be rich and that you won't kick up a fuss if presented with a £10,000 bill after a service.
Oh, and that's for a car that's worth £25,000 now, if I'm lucky.
300 Freelander owners managed to get themselves together to start a class action against MG Rover and that was over a head gasket!
The trouble with owning a Porsche is that everyone (including Porsche it seems) thinks that you must be rich and that you won't kick up a fuss if presented with a £10,000 bill after a service.
Oh, and that's for a car that's worth £25,000 now, if I'm lucky.
Anybody would think that someone might be Phishing to start their own class action ?
As I read it, most RMS "failures" are such a minor weepage of oil fumes that there are as many dealer initiated warranty repairs as any others.
This may be self generated work and it may therefore be short sightedness, but in general owners do seem to being looked after.
I have chosen NOT to take up the Porsche warranty, but the thought that once the car is older, for around £700 a year I can "major cost proof it" is great news. And it's proper Porsche backed.
If the cars are as reliable as I believe they are, Porsche will be making a profit out of these warranties. If they aren't, Porsche are supporting every owner and the market for a very modest charge.
Either way the owner wins.
As for any terminal premature failures, can anybody claim that though there may be a few, none of them have been user induced ?
I manufacture equipment that was sold both with or (for £30 less) without a built in fan. The number of people who try to save £30 and then make a determined attempt to melt the insides, is almost unbelievable.
Now they all have fans.
As I read it, most RMS "failures" are such a minor weepage of oil fumes that there are as many dealer initiated warranty repairs as any others.
This may be self generated work and it may therefore be short sightedness, but in general owners do seem to being looked after.
I have chosen NOT to take up the Porsche warranty, but the thought that once the car is older, for around £700 a year I can "major cost proof it" is great news. And it's proper Porsche backed.
If the cars are as reliable as I believe they are, Porsche will be making a profit out of these warranties. If they aren't, Porsche are supporting every owner and the market for a very modest charge.
Either way the owner wins.
As for any terminal premature failures, can anybody claim that though there may be a few, none of them have been user induced ?
I manufacture equipment that was sold both with or (for £30 less) without a built in fan. The number of people who try to save £30 and then make a determined attempt to melt the insides, is almost unbelievable.
Now they all have fans.
Whats the RMS that needs replacing ?
I,m under warranty and want to make sure i don't miss anything before it runs out.
Its funny this because it is also known that 993TT's require a top end around 70K miles.
Also my previous 993 C2 had a common clutch and windscreen problem.
These cars are not perfect, warranties are perfect for catastrophic failure of an engine...
If you feel unlucky buy one. Quite frankly expecting Porshce to publish failures of its product is a bit naive.... sorry.... had to say it...
It is up to the consumer to do a WatchDog on it or get in the know... buyer beware etc etc
Our job not there's....
I love my Porsche and would be heart broken if the engine went bang and i am sorry for people who have been stung by surprise bills,
I,m under warranty and want to make sure i don't miss anything before it runs out.
Its funny this because it is also known that 993TT's require a top end around 70K miles.
Also my previous 993 C2 had a common clutch and windscreen problem.
These cars are not perfect, warranties are perfect for catastrophic failure of an engine...
If you feel unlucky buy one. Quite frankly expecting Porshce to publish failures of its product is a bit naive.... sorry.... had to say it...
It is up to the consumer to do a WatchDog on it or get in the know... buyer beware etc etc
Our job not there's....
I love my Porsche and would be heart broken if the engine went bang and i am sorry for people who have been stung by surprise bills,
I guess i'm in a minority here but i can't beleive some people's attitudes. You have a 30k car so therefore you must be able to afford the £800 warranty!!!!!!!
Yeah sure if it was just the £800 fine but there's all the other running cost's too. I'm sure there's plenty of you out there with open chequebooks at the ready but personally I struggle to own mine and give up plenty of other things to do so, an extra £800 is an unexceptable price to pay for failing's that don't happen in other Porsche models GT3 TT etc.
Yeah sure if it was just the £800 fine but there's all the other running cost's too. I'm sure there's plenty of you out there with open chequebooks at the ready but personally I struggle to own mine and give up plenty of other things to do so, an extra £800 is an unexceptable price to pay for failing's that don't happen in other Porsche models GT3 TT etc.
Its actually cost me 700 pounds and if you want peace of mind thats the only option.These cars do cost money to run im now faceing a 700 pound bill for 24k service,but i knew that when i bought the car these are high performance cars and compared to the runing costs of a 360 modena represent something of a bargin.If you really cant afford to run it buy a cheeper car that you can,I could buy a 360 but it would leave me in the position your in with the 911 so i run what i can afford its that simple
I think the overall problem relating to the 996 & Boxster engines is the expectation of longevity that the Porsche marque has built up over previous models.
We all know that 964 engines leak oil from heads and crankcases, but they keep running and rarely blow up. Similarly the 993 engine wears out the exhaust valve guides by 100,000 miles but they keep running. I once had a 924 that burned oil for fun if you revved it beyond 3000 rpm, but it did 12,000 miles happily below 3000rpm for me and the next owner who bought it with the fault.
Whereas: buying a modern Porsche is a bit like playing Russian Roulette with the engine.
We all know that 964 engines leak oil from heads and crankcases, but they keep running and rarely blow up. Similarly the 993 engine wears out the exhaust valve guides by 100,000 miles but they keep running. I once had a 924 that burned oil for fun if you revved it beyond 3000 rpm, but it did 12,000 miles happily below 3000rpm for me and the next owner who bought it with the fault.
Whereas: buying a modern Porsche is a bit like playing Russian Roulette with the engine.
if you cant afford it dont buy it etc... thats not the point. no modern engine should need anything other than regular servicing for 100k+, its simply shoddy engineering. its not like a standard 996 is particularly high performance or low volume... if its such a big problem though i cant beleive porsche is getting away with it in the US...
For cheaper runnings costs, i would get OPC to service annually, do engine oil + filter, brake fluid and gearbox oils, horrible jobs. I would do the nice ones like brakes, air filter, spark plugs (although it took me two weekends and most of my skin on my knuckles) it meant for my limited mileage and mainly track day usage i would pay around £400/year to OPC plus lots in brake pads, disks and tyres but i could control that by how many track days i did.
As for engines blowing up, anyone owned a BMW and had the cam belt fail at 60,000 miles nice one BMW - , or head gasket failure, warped heads, again i know its not quite the same because everyone knows that as soon as you buy any second hand car with a cam belt you rush off to change it even before telling the wife a new car's on its way !! but these guys are at the leading edge of engine design that give good power and economy warm up quickly and can cope with big revs.
If you want an engine that never blows up get a Toyota pickup.
As for engines blowing up, anyone owned a BMW and had the cam belt fail at 60,000 miles nice one BMW - , or head gasket failure, warped heads, again i know its not quite the same because everyone knows that as soon as you buy any second hand car with a cam belt you rush off to change it even before telling the wife a new car's on its way !! but these guys are at the leading edge of engine design that give good power and economy warm up quickly and can cope with big revs.
If you want an engine that never blows up get a Toyota pickup.
Take Porsche to court.
IMO the goods being sold are not fit for their purpose, it clear to see, and a discrace!
Anyone who says thats part of the ownership needs the head examining, they've made good money from you and they are effectively selling faulty goods, KNOWINGLY TOO.
A good solicitor would have a field day. High court because of the value etc, so it will cost thousands to pursue, but it will ensure that Porsche think very carefully about their future products.
If it were me I wouldn't even hesitate.
I had some trouble with BMW once and a very strongly worded letter from my solicitors had the problem rectified within a day, it went to the top.
Don't speak to your local Porsche dealer either, send a copy to Porsche GB and Porsche HQ in Germany.
IMO the goods being sold are not fit for their purpose, it clear to see, and a discrace!
Anyone who says thats part of the ownership needs the head examining, they've made good money from you and they are effectively selling faulty goods, KNOWINGLY TOO.
A good solicitor would have a field day. High court because of the value etc, so it will cost thousands to pursue, but it will ensure that Porsche think very carefully about their future products.
If it were me I wouldn't even hesitate.
I had some trouble with BMW once and a very strongly worded letter from my solicitors had the problem rectified within a day, it went to the top.
Don't speak to your local Porsche dealer either, send a copy to Porsche GB and Porsche HQ in Germany.
Maybe instead of pursuing Porsche via 'unfit for purpose' element of The Sale of Goods Act, one could argue that Porsche have duty of care to the purchasers of their product. I know I would suffer 'nervous shock' at the sight of a £££££ bill for an engine replacement. So, there is duty of care, causation and injury. It would be left to prove that Porsche had been negligent in their duty....good luck.
vesuvious is bang on IMHO. 700 notes a year for peace of mind on one of these wonderful cars is peanuts. i've a good friend with a 355 and it cost him 3 bags to get it sorted just after he bought it - and he had it checked before hand and was told it was a good, honest car. he's also looking at a big service soon which will be another wallet kicking. i'd have thought that all tvr/lotus/lambo/'rari/maserati/aston owners know that big bills can arrive unexpectedly (look at the evo long term 355 - what a shed!).
running anything fast is going to cost cash. if you're on a shoestring and are willing to take the risk then so be it - it hope you never have any problems and can run the 996 for a decade or more with no big bills. if you're not willing to run the risk and can afford the warrantee you should do it and drive it like you stole it. no-one should buy a performance car and expect it to be as cheap as a micra to own.
the 996 may not have all the bullet-proofness(?) of a gt3 or 993 but it's still a fantastic car that deserves to be owned by someone who's going to DRIVE it. when you turn it off and the exhaust is pinking and the disks are that lovely 'just thrashed' silver blue, is there really any feeling in the world that can be better. £700 for peace of mind and the ability to thrash the pants off a great car is a good trade.
also, bare in mind that porsche are in the BUSINESS of making cars. if they admit that there is a problem with thier profile model, where does that leave them in terms of liability. they then have to set aside loads of cash to mitigate against future failures (maybe 50 years) - they then can't develop new models and everyone loses out. porsche is a big firm but still independant and producing less than 100,000 cars per year (about what gm make in a week!).
si.
running anything fast is going to cost cash. if you're on a shoestring and are willing to take the risk then so be it - it hope you never have any problems and can run the 996 for a decade or more with no big bills. if you're not willing to run the risk and can afford the warrantee you should do it and drive it like you stole it. no-one should buy a performance car and expect it to be as cheap as a micra to own.
the 996 may not have all the bullet-proofness(?) of a gt3 or 993 but it's still a fantastic car that deserves to be owned by someone who's going to DRIVE it. when you turn it off and the exhaust is pinking and the disks are that lovely 'just thrashed' silver blue, is there really any feeling in the world that can be better. £700 for peace of mind and the ability to thrash the pants off a great car is a good trade.
also, bare in mind that porsche are in the BUSINESS of making cars. if they admit that there is a problem with thier profile model, where does that leave them in terms of liability. they then have to set aside loads of cash to mitigate against future failures (maybe 50 years) - they then can't develop new models and everyone loses out. porsche is a big firm but still independant and producing less than 100,000 cars per year (about what gm make in a week!).
si.
Just curious; under what circumstances can a warranty be bought for a Porsche once the original warranty expires? Does it need to be continuous cover or can it lapse? Is there an age limit? No useful info on the PC GB website other than the phrase "Under certain conditions, a 1-year Approved Warranty can also be effected for used Porsche vehicles."
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