Discussion
Sorry chaps - seem to have made a hash of last post. Feeling a little blurred round the edges as currently at home recovering from minor op. (no, not THAT one). Was trying to agree with sleep envy's last para re old v newer by pointing out that the best 355s now cost more than cheapest 360s.
nervous said:Really I've always said what truly wonderful people they are! Great cars too.................has he gone yet?
I hate to mention the Italians
im not sure riccardo will be too pleased with this sentiment. worse yet, you may well have shot yourself in the foot as you know how these people love to switch sides mid-battle.
It's funny when 993s are ruled out on trivial things like the classic dashboard or the "dated looks".
Or on function (not so trivial).
When you're spending such a huge wedge, it's an EMOTIONAL purchase we're talking about, for FUN, else we'd be in the Hyundai or Jap-Chat forum. Bringing the argument back to function isn't perhaps as relevant as if we were talking about a BMW 320d.
It's already showing now IMO, but for the sake of further argument: In years to come people will pay a premium for a classic, like they do for Jaguar E types, or Merc SL Pagodas, the better function of the 996 will LONG be obsolete by then, the dash on the 996 will look hopelessly outdated while the 993s will still be paying homage to a design that was styled by passion rather than comittee and that is classic.
Or on function (not so trivial).
When you're spending such a huge wedge, it's an EMOTIONAL purchase we're talking about, for FUN, else we'd be in the Hyundai or Jap-Chat forum. Bringing the argument back to function isn't perhaps as relevant as if we were talking about a BMW 320d.
It's already showing now IMO, but for the sake of further argument: In years to come people will pay a premium for a classic, like they do for Jaguar E types, or Merc SL Pagodas, the better function of the 996 will LONG be obsolete by then, the dash on the 996 will look hopelessly outdated while the 993s will still be paying homage to a design that was styled by passion rather than comittee and that is classic.
Ask yourself why you want a 911 first before you start quibbling about whether you want a 993 or 996.
They're both 911s, but they're completely different cars.
If you want your nice interior as that's all you see, then yeah the 996 has a better interior but this only applies to urban 911 drivers who are staring at the interior in a traffic jam all day. When I'm driving my 993 I'm hardly looking at the interior, I'm looking at the road and I hope you do too!
You choose a 993 for the driving - as pointed out it doesn't have the best interior climate control like a nice safe Mercedes (though with proper maintenance of the aircon, the 993 isn't that bad). It's not the best choice for posing in town or stop-start commuting (the clutch isn't ace for such use). It does communicate and reward like no other though.
And, hate to say it, but the 993 was very well engineered and comes from a time when 'excellence' came before 'manufacturing cost efficiencies' - the 996 was built to a cost and it shows. Good cars will be good, but compare a 80k mile 993 to a 80k mile 996 - if you're looking further down the price range then 993s will almost certainly be more reliable.
Simply decide why you want the car and what its primary use is going to be, then drive them both. Not trying to be inflammatory, but I'd say the 993 is the Porsche enthusiast's choice, the 996 potentially more sensible (a newer car for the budget).
(obviously comparing standard cars here, not RS, GT2 or GT3 models - they're a whole different bathtub full of lightbulbs)
They're both 911s, but they're completely different cars.
If you want your nice interior as that's all you see, then yeah the 996 has a better interior but this only applies to urban 911 drivers who are staring at the interior in a traffic jam all day. When I'm driving my 993 I'm hardly looking at the interior, I'm looking at the road and I hope you do too!
You choose a 993 for the driving - as pointed out it doesn't have the best interior climate control like a nice safe Mercedes (though with proper maintenance of the aircon, the 993 isn't that bad). It's not the best choice for posing in town or stop-start commuting (the clutch isn't ace for such use). It does communicate and reward like no other though.
And, hate to say it, but the 993 was very well engineered and comes from a time when 'excellence' came before 'manufacturing cost efficiencies' - the 996 was built to a cost and it shows. Good cars will be good, but compare a 80k mile 993 to a 80k mile 996 - if you're looking further down the price range then 993s will almost certainly be more reliable.
Simply decide why you want the car and what its primary use is going to be, then drive them both. Not trying to be inflammatory, but I'd say the 993 is the Porsche enthusiast's choice, the 996 potentially more sensible (a newer car for the budget).
(obviously comparing standard cars here, not RS, GT2 or GT3 models - they're a whole different bathtub full of lightbulbs)
cyberface said:
I'd say the 993 is the Porsche enthusiast's choice
and there you have it. do you want to be deeemed 'a lucky, happy guy with a great car' or 'a porsche enthusiast'? spose it depends on whether you file your magazines in order of 'relevance', or prefer to 'leave the house and talk to girls*' once in a while.
* for those 993 owners who are also porsche club gb members, 'girls' are the ones without beards who you sometimes see on the telly. most likely between 12 midnight and 12.10.
Marquis_Rex said:
It's funny when 993s are ruled out on trivial things like the classic dashboard or the "dated looks".
Or on function (not so trivial).
When you're spending such a huge wedge, it's an EMOTIONAL purchase we're talking about, for FUN, else we'd be in the Hyundai or Jap-Chat forum. Bringing the argument back to function isn't perhaps as relevant as if we were talking about a BMW 320d.
It's already showing now IMO, but for the sake of further argument: In years to come people will pay a premium for a classic, like they do for Jaguar E types, or Merc SL Pagodas, the better function of the 996 will LONG be obsolete by then, the dash on the 996 will look hopelessly outdated while the 993s will still be paying homage to a design that was styled by passion rather than comittee and that is classic.
Mine was an emotional purchase, Porsche was probably my first word. But I don't think we would need to be in the jap chat forum.
My 996 is the main family car, and I've got two kids under five. It's a car that makes sense for heart as well as my head.
Yes, in years to come the 993 will be really sort after, small production numbers and air cooling will take care of that. The 996 will be hopelessly outdated, but we'll have all moved on by then, making it irrelevant.
If you come back here in about 5-10 years time the heading will be 993 v 997. Whilst the title will be different, I suspect the content will be the same.
Incidentally the worst car I've ever owned was Japanese, and the best was German.
nervous said:
I'd say the 993 is the Porsche enthusiast's choice
and there you have it. do you want to be deeeeeeemed 'a lucky, happy guy with a great car' or 'a porsche enthusiast'? spose it depends on whether you file your magazines in order of 'relevance', or prefer to 'leave the house and talk to girls*' once in a while.
You bought a GT3 to impress the ladies?? Say it ain't so, Nervy
Anyway, it's more than overdue for Ballcock to come steaming in here with an RMS joke.
Marquis_Rex said:
It's funny when 993s are ruled out on trivial things like the classic dashboard or the "dated looks".
.
incidentally, if these things are so trivial, why do car companies invest a fortune in updating and improving them?
to say that these aspects are unimportant in an emotional experience is insane: the looks and feeling of a car are as bigger part of the mix as driving it. Please note that I'm not saying its more important, or am i purely interested in the 'pose factor', but to deny the importance of aesthetics and say that you're only interested in driving dynamics is just plain fibbing: tell me honestly, honestly now, if you car looked like a skoda Riva, but drove well, would you love it in the same way? i know you're gonna be tempted to say 'yes' to prove a point, but i think we can all admit that the way these thing look and feel are a vital part of the emotional experience and that a great many of us wouldn't get in anything that looked like jimmy nails face.
cyberface said:
You bought a GT3 to impress the ladies?? Say it ain't so, Nervy
.
not at all, chum.
BUT, i also didnt buy it to impress Porsche nerds who think that anything with water in it is herecy, or that creaky styling is acceptable in a hugely expensive car. Folks that are willing to forego the visual beauty of their car just to b able to amass cool points with other men worry me.
I bought my Three to impress me, no-one else.
cyberface said:
I'd say the 993 is the Porsche enthusiast's choice
and there you have it. do you want to be deeeeeeemed 'a lucky, happy guy with a great car' or 'a porsche enthusiast'? spose it depends on whether you file your magazines in order of 'relevance', or prefer to 'leave the house and talk to girls*' once in a while.
You bought a GT3 to impress the ladies?? Say it ain't so, Nervy
Anyway, it's more than overdue for Ballcock to come steaming in here with an RMS joke.
r m s
sorry I was late ..Got stuck in bad traffic coming home from visiting the girls
nervous said:
You bought a GT3 to impress the ladies?? Say it ain't so, Nervy
.
not at all, chum.
BUT, i also didnt buy it to impress Porsche nerds who think that anything with water in it is herecy, or that creaky styling is acceptable in a hugely expensive car. Folks that are willing to forego the visual beauty of their car just to b able to amass cool points with other men worry me.
I bought my Three to impress me, no-one else.
May be some misunderstanding here old bean - I certainly wouldn't consider a watercooled Porker as 'heresy' and anyone buying a car purely to impress other people (as per my pisstake) is wasting their time IMO.
What I was getting at was that *due* to the compromises of the 993, it's the enthusiast's choice since you'd have to love what the 993 provides to ignore what the 993 doesn't provide. The 996 is more complete and would be a suitable choice for a non-enthusiast who just wants a posh car. This isn't a slur on any enthusiasts with 996s.
I love the 993 - no doubt about it - and as you say, I bought mine to impress me also. 'Porsche nerds' - whatever - I have little clue about most of the predecessors to the 993 and have little interest in specification trainspotting. But the 993 bug was one that bit hard - and the numerous partisan elements on this board seem to bear that out!
(and it's also clear from the GT3 mafia on here that that model, likewise, has gained a very loyal following. Horses for courses!)
ballcock said:Aren't GT3's built on the 993 cases?
I'd say the 993 is the Porsche enthusiast's choice
and there you have it. do you want to be deeeeeeemed 'a lucky, happy guy with a great car' or 'a porsche enthusiast'? spose it depends on whether you file your magazines in order of 'relevance', or prefer to 'leave the house and talk to girls*' once in a while.
You bought a GT3 to impress the ladies?? Say it ain't so, Nervy
Anyway, it's more than overdue for Ballcock to come steaming in here with an RMS joke.
r m s
sorry I was late ..Got stuck in bad traffic coming home from visiting the girls
nervous said:
I'd say the 993 is the Porsche enthusiast's choice
and there you have it. do you want to be deeemed 'a lucky, happy guy with a great car' or 'a porsche enthusiast'? spose it depends on whether you file your magazines in order of 'relevance', or prefer to 'leave the house and talk to girls*' once in a while.
* for those 993 owners who are also porsche club gb members, 'girls' are the ones without beards** who you sometimes see on the telly. most likely between 12 midnight and 12.10.
** Wrong there Nervie , 993 owners do have girls ... but they have beards too
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