The next classic?
Discussion
steve rance said:
francisb said:
Assuming we are all agreed the 2.7rs, 964rs, 993rs and 993gt2's are all classics (which older ones have i missed?), will any 996's be viewed as classics in 10 years i wonder?
maybe gt2's again on account of their relative rarity (assuming oil doesnt go mental) but then people dont seem passionate about them in the same way they do gt3's, and renault will probably be doing a clio trophy 550 by then anyway
, but are there too many gt3's? the gt3rs i suppose is the obvious choice but its still 50-60k, i suppose they continue lower for 5 years before the gooduns turn round and start appreciating as classics.
hmmmmm
maybe gt2's again on account of their relative rarity (assuming oil doesnt go mental) but then people dont seem passionate about them in the same way they do gt3's, and renault will probably be doing a clio trophy 550 by then anyway
, but are there too many gt3's? the gt3rs i suppose is the obvious choice but its still 50-60k, i suppose they continue lower for 5 years before the gooduns turn round and start appreciating as classics. hmmmmm
From a drivers perspective, the GT3MK1 is a better car than the 993RS and the GT3RS is substantially better than the GT3MK1. The 964RS and 993RS are very well matched but the worst of the lot is the 73RS, which - according to informed Porsche lovers is God's own car. In reality the older cars were a lot more accessible to the journos that tell us all what to think. The later cars push the window beyond the abilities of most of those who have the influence to create cars of classic status in one article and that just wont do.
Quite what criteria a car needs to forfill to get classic status amongst the all knowing Porsche enthusiast who has probaly never been in - let alone driven - any of the cars in his top ten list has always been a mystery to me and the source of constant amusement. What I do know is that the 997RS hasn't got a cat in hells chance of being any good because, it's got to be old to be any good. Mind you, with a PASM button on it, it may just be the bet Porsch of all time. Porsche dont make em like they used to do they?
Edited by steve rance on Tuesday 20th June 10:27
Loved that last para. Steve - in my, humble, opinion - spot on. Thank God they don't make 'em like they used to - that was then and now is now. Wake up to the year 2006 people.(He said reaching for his coat..........)You're right, of course, the 997RS will be complete pants until old enough to be totally outclassed by the latest Porsche offering at which point it will become the best thing since sliced bread no doubt.
993rsr said:
Driven a 993rs back to back with a Mk1 GT3 on track. Only thing that the GT3 has that is superior to the 993rs is the engine. Out of the box the 993rs is a more rewarding and durable track car. You don't need to spend money on suspension and brakes like you would on the GT3 to make it stop and turn well.
Sorry Guys
Should have read from my perspective. I wasn't getting at people that have actually driven or own these cars, I respect your opinions. We all look for something different in our cars. My gipe is with people that quote stuff that journos write and form opinions on cars that they have never even driven. It's ill informed opinions that effect these cars residuals.
I quite agree. The best Porsche of all time was the early tractor, with amazing feedback through the three foot steering wheel as you skipped over the furrows on leaf springs with a dab of opposite lock. Those were the days, I tell thee!!!!
I think you'll find that new Porsches tend to be dynamically superior in many ways but some models just lack a bit of character... I personally find that the GT3 has a lot of character, certainly compared to the vanilla 996s. Also, I think the dodgy pedals, bakelits plastics, silly switchgear and big round dials of the older 911s are charming - like I prefer my Breitling that gains a minute a day to my Casio that doesn't. Like the older 911s, it has personality, charm, whatever... even if it loses out on functionality and performance.
The realists choose the new cars; the romantics choose the old ones, perhaps?
I think you'll find that new Porsches tend to be dynamically superior in many ways but some models just lack a bit of character... I personally find that the GT3 has a lot of character, certainly compared to the vanilla 996s. Also, I think the dodgy pedals, bakelits plastics, silly switchgear and big round dials of the older 911s are charming - like I prefer my Breitling that gains a minute a day to my Casio that doesn't. Like the older 911s, it has personality, charm, whatever... even if it loses out on functionality and performance.
The realists choose the new cars; the romantics choose the old ones, perhaps?
steve rance said:
Porsche dont make em like they used to do they?
no they dont. a db4gt zagato isn't as "good" as a dbr9 either. doesnt make it any less desirable. i think the modern cars (996gt2 etc...) will have a harder time being "accepted" as classics because ability is only half the equation, arguably looks and rarity are as important. that said i want, no need, a gt2 to share the garage. if in 10 years people start to think of it as a classic too, i'll be even happier.
steve rance said:
It's ill informed opinions that effect these cars residuals.
thank god. it means us peasants can afford them
Edited by francisb on Tuesday 20th June 11:06
steve rance said:
worst of the lot is the 73RS, which - according to informed Porsche lovers is God's own car.
Cant agree there Steve, ive been fortunate to drive a few, & ok obviously very diferent to the later cars, but quite simply other than the brakes showing their age (& they are not really that bad just not up with modern big red detach your retina type stoppers) I think they are incredible machines for a 33/34 yr old car & more than worthy of its place in the desireability stakes.
iguana said:
steve rance said:
worst of the lot is the 73RS, which - according to informed Porsche lovers is God's own car.
Cant agree there Steve, ive been fortunate to drive a few, & ok obviously very diferent to the later cars, but quite simply other than the brakes showing their age (& they are not really that bad just not up with modern big red detach your retina type stoppers) I think they are incredible machines for a 33/34 yr old car & more than worthy of its place in the desireability stakes.
Absolutely!
The newer 911s are obviously more powerful, with more grip, better brakes and faster gearboxes, so much quicker on track.
But the earlier cars are still fantastically intimate to drive - particularly on good A and B roads.
Of course they must be in first class original order and properly set up (sadly, many are not). But a 2.7RS that is 'on the button' and on modern tyres, is still an absolute gem to drive.
One of my other favourites is the little 911 'Club Sport'. I drove one from Bath to Gaydon (Aston factory) and back yesterday, using the Fosse Way and it was one of my nicest road drives ever in a 911.
Alomost every 911 and 964 variant is a classic. Its an age thing. 993's are becoming classics, and 996's and 7's aren't yet but probably will be.
Its also down to definition of what a classic means to one person or the next, so the discussion is academic, and you people all have too much time on your hands, the originator more so for starting this pointless thread, and me for bothering to reply.....
Its also down to definition of what a classic means to one person or the next, so the discussion is academic, and you people all have too much time on your hands, the originator more so for starting this pointless thread, and me for bothering to reply.....
911addict said:
Its also down to definition of what a classic means to one person or the next
Yeh indeed, but think he ment financially, as in why is a '73 RS worth so much, & a 74 Carrera so little when they are so similar under the skin etc etc & whats going to be the next big earner, bit like just a few yrs back when lhd 964Rs were selling for teens, but now now even after a few yrs hard tracking an average example can get double that, & lots of other examples.
911addict said:
...pointless thread...
hey 99% of the threads on PH are pointless, im just doing my bit to keep teds bandwidth bill up. besides the opinion of a bunch of porsche freaks with too much time and money on their hands is what (as sr points out) drives 'classic' prices, so maybe it is relevant.
iguana said:
Yeh indeed, but think he ment financially
you know me, im shallow like that!
I was in my local specialist this morn , they have an unregistered mark 2 gt3 on show , when I asked about it they said they were storing it for a good customer (they have another 3 of his Porsche's out the back!!), and that it's at least 18 months old but has never been driven .. I couldn't believe it .. The waste!!
I had a feel of the inside of the disks .. no break dust , no wear.. There's absolutely not ONE stone chip on the front. I can only assume the owner has an eye to the future with the hope that it's going to be a collectible .. But with no miles on it in the last 18 months?? .. Surely that's doing the car no good?? ..
It's driving me nuts actually , It should be out screeching around the track.
I had a feel of the inside of the disks .. no break dust , no wear.. There's absolutely not ONE stone chip on the front. I can only assume the owner has an eye to the future with the hope that it's going to be a collectible .. But with no miles on it in the last 18 months?? .. Surely that's doing the car no good?? ..
It's driving me nuts actually , It should be out screeching around the track.
It seems to me from all the various comments here and on other threads that the Mk1 GT3 has started along the long path to sainthood status and the GT3RS is not far behind.
As in all these cars the type rarety will also have an influence so my 'one of 28 UK' RH drive clubsport should be well placed.
However, if you try and marry classic status with financial gain forget it. I will never get back what I paid for mine a couple of years ago nor have I ever expected to. I do expect it to go down in value a lot slower than my old 996C4 has (and continues to do).
Whilst one car collector may pay well over the odds to purchase the mint zero mileage example from another collector I would guess that generally the cost to buy a reasonable example will go exactly the same way as the 964RS and the 993RS varieties. Gradually levelling out over a fairly narrow band.
If you want to invest in something - try land.....
As in all these cars the type rarety will also have an influence so my 'one of 28 UK' RH drive clubsport should be well placed.
However, if you try and marry classic status with financial gain forget it. I will never get back what I paid for mine a couple of years ago nor have I ever expected to. I do expect it to go down in value a lot slower than my old 996C4 has (and continues to do).
Whilst one car collector may pay well over the odds to purchase the mint zero mileage example from another collector I would guess that generally the cost to buy a reasonable example will go exactly the same way as the 964RS and the 993RS varieties. Gradually levelling out over a fairly narrow band.
If you want to invest in something - try land.....
I don't think "classic car" necessarily implies "good financial investment".
I don't know of anyone who looks at a, say, Aston DB4, and immediately says "that's a great financial investment".
Classic cars always possess an intangible quality that, several years down the road, elicit people to say that the car was groundbreaking in some way - be it a technical, dynamic, or aesthetic quality; or the car could be a landmark in some historical or social/cultural way.
The original Mini is a great example of all these things - and they certainly aren't considered the best "financial investment".
I don't know of anyone who looks at a, say, Aston DB4, and immediately says "that's a great financial investment".
Classic cars always possess an intangible quality that, several years down the road, elicit people to say that the car was groundbreaking in some way - be it a technical, dynamic, or aesthetic quality; or the car could be a landmark in some historical or social/cultural way.
The original Mini is a great example of all these things - and they certainly aren't considered the best "financial investment".
gfreeman said:
If you want to invest in something - try land.....
im not talking about investing (after running, insurance, repair, restoration costs i'd be amazed if any car MADE money) but its clear that the variants considered classics trade at a very healthly premium or multiples of the same age c2. in porsche's 'classic' and 'expensive' seem to go hand in hand. as for the land - im working on it
Edited by francisb on Thursday 22 June 17:33
How about a C4S with a factory sports exhaust and X51 power kit ie 345bhp easy to drive comfortable and if it was specked by Chris Cagill it will be a lary colour with a special interior!
Joking asside in the future people will want good examples of this car as it is easy to drive fast and has loads of toys and is the loudest factory porsche yet!
I mis mine already it had more presence than my new GT3
Joking asside in the future people will want good examples of this car as it is easy to drive fast and has loads of toys and is the loudest factory porsche yet!
I mis mine already it had more presence than my new GT3
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff