The next classic?
Discussion
lightweight said:
How about a C4S with a factory sports exhaust and X51 power kit ie 345bhp easy to drive comfortable and if it was specked by Chris Cagill it will be a lary colour with a special interior!
Joking asside in the future people will want good examples of this car as it is easy to drive fast and has loads of toys and is the loudest factory porsche yet!
I mis mine already it had more presence than my new GT3
Joking asside in the future people will want good examples of this car as it is easy to drive fast and has loads of toys and is the loudest factory porsche yet!
I mis mine already it had more presence than my new GT3
I think they maybe a touch too "common" to ever be a classic
If you want something quick noisy and easy to drive, by an x50 996 Turbo and put an aftermaket exhaust on it
If you want a classic I'd suggest a MK 1 GT3........................
It must of course be RHD, Comfort Spec and................ it has to be Zanzibar Red otherwise it will never be seen as "a Classic"
Jc it depends what engine is in the 993rs!!!
The only thing lacking in a 993rs,if you are comparing it to later 996/997 is power ,give it some ,and it will grip as well as the best of them.
Classic prices or rare racers with sound race history etc are being pushed by all the historic/oldtimer races and tours etc, they can also be a very good investment.
Most of the limited ed cars that Porsche make, will always have a place in a collectors/enthusiasts market some where.
You say some cars are far to common, probably not as common as a 2.7 rs!
If you are talking 73rs lightweights or rsr, thats a different matter of course.
Dare i say it most of the modern cars are now getting a little boring, as they are so capable, and the need to go so much faster to explore the limit of car or driver. This is also helping to fuel the prices of oldtimers .It just depends what you require from your cars and like!
The only thing lacking in a 993rs,if you are comparing it to later 996/997 is power ,give it some ,and it will grip as well as the best of them.
Classic prices or rare racers with sound race history etc are being pushed by all the historic/oldtimer races and tours etc, they can also be a very good investment.
Most of the limited ed cars that Porsche make, will always have a place in a collectors/enthusiasts market some where.
You say some cars are far to common, probably not as common as a 2.7 rs!
If you are talking 73rs lightweights or rsr, thats a different matter of course.
Dare i say it most of the modern cars are now getting a little boring, as they are so capable, and the need to go so much faster to explore the limit of car or driver. This is also helping to fuel the prices of oldtimers .It just depends what you require from your cars and like!
francisb said:
lightweight said:
...easy to drive fast and has loads of toys...
couldnt be further from what i (or the current market) wants from a classic porsche.
Exactly.
The production 911s that seem to have achieved the desirable 'classic' status, commanding a price premium, tend to be those that were driver focussed, lightweight and limited production - i.e:
- selected pre-impact models, most notably 2.0/2.2/2.4S
- 2.7RS
- 3.2 'Club Sport'
- 964 RS
- 993 RS
In time, it is reasonable to expect that the GT3s will follow.
Gt3 should follow, but you have to consider the numbers made,,,,most of the others were produced in relatively small mumbers by comparison...and the 2.7RS gains value for use in historic race events.....there were no cup cars at this time....so racers going forward may choose a Gt3 cup over a road car......
For this reason I am not convinced the mainstrem Gt3 will ever get into the magic circle of classic pork myself, but if current owners continue to deplete the number of Gt3Rs on the road, those left with a decent car may well be on to a winner.....
we may know more in 10 years, if any of use are allowed to use cars like these for a start
For this reason I am not convinced the mainstrem Gt3 will ever get into the magic circle of classic pork myself, but if current owners continue to deplete the number of Gt3Rs on the road, those left with a decent car may well be on to a winner.....
we may know more in 10 years, if any of use are allowed to use cars like these for a start
francisb said:
lightweight said:
...easy to drive fast and has loads of toys...
couldnt be further from what i (or the current market) wants from a classic porsche.
Yes me to but the thread was asking about future classics not current taste!
Tastes change we grew up in a different age and the game has moved on. My point was simply that what is regarded as a great car in its lifetime can change over time in 2 weeks I am already remembering my C4S with a smile.
I guess the question is does a classic 911 have to be track based? if the answer is yes does this exclude the 482bhp 996 GT2?
Bo
A classic porsche doesn't necessarily need to be track based, but the ones sought after in the future will be rare in terms of numbers, as Clubsport says, be the purest of intent and breed (like the RSs) or have pedigree (like the raced 2.7 RSs etc.).
My guess is that out of 996 GT3 Mk1, GT3Mk2, GT3RS, C4S and GT2, only the GT3RS will reach true classic status, and be an appreciating (or non-depreciating) asset.
My guess is that out of 996 GT3 Mk1, GT3Mk2, GT3RS, C4S and GT2, only the GT3RS will reach true classic status, and be an appreciating (or non-depreciating) asset.
Hi Dom So how about the last of the line 996 GT2 only about 8 RHD cars (ready to be corected) at £126K each 482bhp unique looks lots of carbon bodywork will it become a classic?
In terms of rareity they are getting rarer as people keep stacking them when I was looking the problem was finding one that had not been smacked.
In terms of rareity they are getting rarer as people keep stacking them when I was looking the problem was finding one that had not been smacked.
I just don't think people will care for the 996GT2 as it wasn't as pared down as the 993GT2. Even if they only made 8 of the last model, it still won't affect overall desirability. The 996 GT2 is probably the performance bargain on the planet right now, with cars well under half their original price. But for whatever reason (maybe all that leather and airbags!), it lacks the 'hardcore' appeal of its previous namesake - and it is this purity and statement of intent (riveted arches...) that tickle the spot and give it the x factor.
To be honest, I think legend is in the details; the insane lengths gone to to save a few grammes in the 964RS... the tacking of arches on instead of making new ones on the 993GT2... the relocated suspension pick up points in the GT3RS. The 996GT2 just seemed a bit too efficiently executed; a mainstream car with full yank type approval rather than the racetrack oddities that seem a bit more 'authentic' in conception.
Just my warped opinion
To be honest, I think legend is in the details; the insane lengths gone to to save a few grammes in the 964RS... the tacking of arches on instead of making new ones on the 993GT2... the relocated suspension pick up points in the GT3RS. The 996GT2 just seemed a bit too efficiently executed; a mainstream car with full yank type approval rather than the racetrack oddities that seem a bit more 'authentic' in conception.
Just my warped opinion
Domster said:
A classic porsche doesn't necessarily need to be track based, but the ones sought after in the future will be rare in terms of numbers, as Clubsport says, be the purest of intent and breed (like the RSs) or have pedigree (like the raced 2.7 RSs etc.).
On that basis Domster surely the MK1 GT3 would be a contender when compared with the number of MK 2 GT3s produced ?
Surely the fact that the MK1 is "the original" and seems to be viewed as a more hardcore drive (not I hasten to add a "better" car than the MK2) would increase it's chances of becoming "a classic"
I'm not convinced that the number of cars produced alone is a guarantee of a car attaining classic staus.
I can't remember the production numbers for the 964RS ( 2100 ish ?) but it doesn't seem to have diminished it's desirabilty as a classic.
I think the GT3 Mk1 (and remember this is only in my opinion 
) is a close contender, but that people will see the more extreme GT3RS as the one they perhaps should have done originally. This had the more extreme weight saving measures, plus a bit of extra development from the Mk2 and the learnings of a few seasons of Cup car racing thrown in, plus it came in the lairy stripe livery.
Maybe it is just a halo effect of the fabled 'RS' badge, as ludicrous as that sounds. Interestingly, I think GT3s are showing some residual solidity compared to other 996s. GT3 prices seemed to stabilise a year or so back at 40k absolute base, whereas the 996 Carrera and Turbo continue to fall. Will Turbos fall to 35k and C2s to high teens, whilst the GT3 stays at 40k? I wouldn't be surprised.
I'm just not sure the GT3 'brand' is appealing enough for appreciation in the future, without the magic of RS.
) is a close contender, but that people will see the more extreme GT3RS as the one they perhaps should have done originally. This had the more extreme weight saving measures, plus a bit of extra development from the Mk2 and the learnings of a few seasons of Cup car racing thrown in, plus it came in the lairy stripe livery. Maybe it is just a halo effect of the fabled 'RS' badge, as ludicrous as that sounds. Interestingly, I think GT3s are showing some residual solidity compared to other 996s. GT3 prices seemed to stabilise a year or so back at 40k absolute base, whereas the 996 Carrera and Turbo continue to fall. Will Turbos fall to 35k and C2s to high teens, whilst the GT3 stays at 40k? I wouldn't be surprised.
I'm just not sure the GT3 'brand' is appealing enough for appreciation in the future, without the magic of RS.
IMO,964RS, 993RS and 993GT2 are as much a given as you can get in terms of future classic status. They are all specific, focused and relatively rare.
959 and Carrera GT will establish solid classic credentials as they age.
GT3`s are an interesting case - they offer all of the normal core credentials but Wiedenkings rapacious nature has ensured mass production. This will effect their future "blue-chip" credibility and limit ultimate value. The GT3RS will be in pole position but I think the difference between Mk1 and Mk2 GT3 will be limited. The GT3R/RS/RSR will make it.
996GT2 will be fun but will not be in the same league -it has never established itself over and above a cooking GT3.
Conversely, I actually think that the 993TT may establish itself a cult fan base and prove to be a decent long term punt (in a few years). Outside bet - an original 911 Turbo (3.0 or 3.3) - a genuinely iconic car in it`s original Athena poster form?
959 and Carrera GT will establish solid classic credentials as they age.
GT3`s are an interesting case - they offer all of the normal core credentials but Wiedenkings rapacious nature has ensured mass production. This will effect their future "blue-chip" credibility and limit ultimate value. The GT3RS will be in pole position but I think the difference between Mk1 and Mk2 GT3 will be limited. The GT3R/RS/RSR will make it.
996GT2 will be fun but will not be in the same league -it has never established itself over and above a cooking GT3.
Conversely, I actually think that the 993TT may establish itself a cult fan base and prove to be a decent long term punt (in a few years). Outside bet - an original 911 Turbo (3.0 or 3.3) - a genuinely iconic car in it`s original Athena poster form?
Irish said:
Hhhmm, not so sure about the Mk 1 GT3, a future classic yes but I would put the GT3 RS first in terms of looks, relative rarity, etc. Just hope the owners stop stuffing them.
A
A
Seriously though
I think that the accesibility of the 73, 964 and 993 RS's will make them eternally classic. The GT3RS will probably be the last of the RS's with no driver aids and many will probably say that with it went the last true RS. With so many ening up in the armco, I can understand why Porsche have gone the driver aid route with the 997 but it is an awful shame. I love driving the 996 becuase it offers a great challenge but I can relax a whole lot more in an earlier RS's.
Ultimately they may all achieve classic status - They are all fantastic to drive and they all rely entirely on the driver to expoit thier true potential.
So when a 997RS blasts past me at Spa, I can consoul myslef that at least I am managing to cock it all up on my own...
Steve R
steve rance said:
Irish said:
Hhhmm, not so sure about the Mk 1 GT3, a future classic yes but I would put the GT3 RS first in terms of looks, relative rarity, etc. Just hope the owners stop stuffing them.
A
A
Seriously though
I think that the accesibility of the 73, 964 and 993 RS's will make them eternally classic. The GT3RS will probably be the last of the RS's with no driver aids and many will probably say that with it went the last true RS. With so many ening up in the armco, I can understand why Porsche have gone the driver aid route with the 997 but it is an awful shame. I love driving the 996 becuase it offers a great challenge but I can relax a whole lot more in an earlier RS's.
Ultimately they may all achieve classic status - They are all fantastic to drive and they all rely entirely on the driver to expoit thier true potential.
So when a 997RS blasts past me at Spa, I can consoul myslef that at least I am managing to cock it all up on my own...
Steve R
Edited by pugsey on Monday 26th June 12:17
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