996 gt3 rs info ?

[timmo]

I bought a Turbo 996 it was the a full spec 100K + car
It was lovely comfortable - the missus loved driving it
I did some long journeys in the car and enjoyed the full
accrelation /comfort and seats in the back !
then I met up with my regular people who journey across europe
and we all went for a blast on A+B roads with roundabout etc
I was struggling to keep up and they left me round bends and roundabouts
I also found that when you get use to the turbo surge it became
mundane
I traded it back for a GT3 RS.... my missus loved the turbo and puts up with the RS
I love the RS
I could drive the Turbo with one hand listening to the CD
I drive the RS with 2 hands with the radio off !!!


tim

[Pugsey]

JFT said:

Don't try to see the other side too clearly! Your mind is already beginning to play tricks on you. Now just get off these forums and wait for your car. Otherwise you'll convince yourself to do somthing silly.

kayc - my TT was with Savannah interior. See where I'm coming from?

Wise words - I'll get my coat.

[cayman-black]

timmo said:

I bought a Turbo 996 it was the a full spec 100K + car
It was lovely comfortable - the missus loved driving it
I did some long journeys in the car and enjoyed the full
accrelation /comfort and seats in the back !
then I met up with my regular people who journey across europe
and we all went for a blast on A+B roads with roundabout etc
I was struggling to keep up and they left me round bends and roundabouts
I also found that when you get use to the turbo surge it became
mundane
I traded it back for a GT3 RS.... my missus loved the turbo and puts up with the RS
I love the RS
I could drive the Turbo with one hand listening to the CD
I drive the RS with 2 hands with the radio off !!!


tim

that is what the RS is all about well said!

[Kurgen_]

Have done the circle so many times.. CSL to GT3 to CSL to GT3RS to TT to GT3 RS + few thrown in..

Have argued from all corners over the months ..lol

My current RS with PCCB and Parr stage 1 road race setup, is fairly untouchable in my mind. The feel, the feedback, the ability to have both ends sliding (but not at once.. ) and remain in full control is divinity itself..!

Rob

[steve rance]

fuji said:

Can anyone with experience help me with these questions?
I'm thinking about getting an RS , it will be a second car used for weekends and i will mainly be driving the vehicle on roads with the occasional track day.

1) Is this car suitable for road use or is it too extreme and should be a simple trackday toy ?
2) Looking at prices it seems that i could get a nice one for £65000 do you think prices will fall significantly with the launch of the 997 gt3 or do you think prices will hold ?
3) Most ive seen on the net come with PCCB and i understand these are very expensive to replace , what should i be looking for if i get a version with these brakes (cracks, warranty ) and how much would it cost to change to steels ?
4) Is there anything i should be looking out for when i go to look at some vehicles / or must have options ?

Thx all

Edited by fuji on Sunday 3rd September 11:17

In answer to your original question and in attempt to free this thread from it's villanous hijackers;

1. The GT3RS has a softer spring rate than the MK2 making it a more compliant road companion. it is the geometry and set up that makes the car feel so different and with the suspension being fully adjustable, you can set it up to feel however you want it to.

2. The 996 and 997RS seem very different in thier dynamics. The 997 is far more road friendly than the 996 because it has swichable damping settings. It therefore offers a level of road sophistication that no RS has done before it. I think that this may polarise some potential buyers and it is possible that quite different markets emerge with some buyers prefering a softer road car whilst others prefering a rawer experience. For this reason, I think that 996RS prices will remain pretty stable.

3. If you intend to track the car, steel brakes are a must. If not, it is less of an issue providing the brakes have been properly cooled after very hard use. If you do buy a PCCB car, it may be better to replace the brakes to steels at the first disc change. It is'nt that expensive. Parr and JZ Machtec offer fantastic brembo or alcon upgrades.

4. Make sure that the car has been well maintained and is straight. A lot of cars have been off at track days so be sure to establish the car's history before you buy it. Also get a rev range 2 printout. Tracked RS's are not an issue. The car was built for the circuit and can handle track work as a matter of course. What is more important is engine abuse. It costs 40k to replace an RS engine. A well maintained track car with no rev range 2 is a far better prospect than a road car with 30 seconds of rev range 2 activity. There were very few extra's offered with the 996RS and none are considered must have, however a full passenger harness is prefereable.

Good luck

Steve R

Edited by steve rance on Tuesday 5th September 13:30

[Vesuvius 996]

steve rance said:

fuji said:

Can anyone with experience help me with these questions?
I'm thinking about getting an RS , it will be a second car used for weekends and i will mainly be driving the vehicle on roads with the occasional track day.

1) Is this car suitable for road use or is it too extreme and should be a simple trackday toy ?
2) Looking at prices it seems that i could get a nice one for £65000 do you think prices will fall significantly with the launch of the 997 gt3 or do you think prices will hold ?
3) Most ive seen on the net come with PCCB and i understand these are very expensive to replace , what should i be looking for if i get a version with these brakes (cracks, warranty ) and how much would it cost to change to steels ?
4) Is there anything i should be looking out for when i go to look at some vehicles / or must have options ?

Thx all

Edited by fuji on Sunday 3rd September 11:17

In answer to your original question and in attempt to free this thread from it's villanous hijackers;

1. The GT3RS has a softer spring rate than the MK2 making it a more compliant road companion. it is the geometry and set up that makes the car feel so different and with the suspension being fully adjustable, you can set it up to feel however you want it to.

2. The 996 and 997RS seem very different in thier dynamics. The 997 is far more road friendly than the 996 because it has swichable damping settings. It therefore offers a level of road sophistication that no RS has done before it. I think that this may polarise some potential buyers and it is possible that quite different markets emerge with some buyers prefering a softer road car whilst others prefering a rawer experience. For this reason, I think that 996RS prices will remain pretty stable.

3. If you intend to track the car, steel brakes are a must. If not, it is less of an issue providing the brakes have been properly cooled after very hard use. If you do buy a PCCB car, it may be better to replace the brakes to steels at the first disc change. It is'nt that expensive. Parr and JZ Machtec offer fantastic brembo or alcon upgrades.

4. Make sure that the car has been well maintained and is straight. A lot of cars have been off at track days so be sure to establish the car's history before you buy it. Also get a rev range 2 printout. Tracked RS's are not an issue. The car was built for the circuit and can handle track work as a matter of course. What is more important is engine abuse. It costs 40k to replace an RS engine. A well maintained track car with no rev range 2 is a far better prospect than a road car with 30 seconds of rev range 2 activity. There were very few extra's offered with the 996RS and none are considered must have, however a full passenger harness is prefereable.

Good luck

Steve R

Edited by steve rance on Tuesday 5th September 13:30

Steve - what is "rev range 2" - assume it is mechanical over rev??

How do I get a printout?

[steve rance]

Steve - what is "rev range 2" - assume it is mechanical over rev??

How do I get a printout?
[/quote]

A Rev range incident occurs when the engine revs exceed that of the limiter ie maximum safe permitted. This normally occurs through a fluffed downchange say from 4th to second and the clutch is let in too early causing the engine to over rev, Or a missed gear. The rev limiter cannot prevent the inertia of the engine and it over revs. It has been known for GT3 engines to buzz to 11000 rpm and hold together. Cup engines regularly rev to 9000pm but it's not great and ultimately is the greatest potential cause of detonation. Ask any OPC or independant who has ECU access hardware to give you an ECU printout. Every rev range 2 incident will be stored and is reported in spark cycles, ie; 6 cycles = 1 engine revolution. Most engines experience a small number of rev range 2. After 3 seasons, the Parr car has only 2 seconds of rev range 2. It is essential for any buyer of a Porsche to get a rev range 2 print out, it tells you an awful lot about how the car has been driven and if there is any potenial engine damage.

Steve R

[Vesuvius 996]

steve rance said:

Steve - what is "rev range 2" - assume it is mechanical over rev??

How do I get a printout?

A Rev range incident occurs when the engine revs exceed that of the limiter ie maximum safe permitted. This normally occurs through a fluffed downchange say from 4th to second and the clutch is let in too early causing the engine to over rev, Or a missed gear. The rev limiter cannot prevent the inertia of the engine and it over revs. It has been known for GT3 engines to buzz to 11000 rpm and hold together. Cup engines regularly rev to 9000pm but it's not great and ultimately is the greatest potential cause of detonation. Ask any OPC or independant who has ECU access hardware to give you an ECU printout. Every rev range 2 incident will be stored and is reported in spark cycles, ie; 6 cycles = 1 engine revolution. Most engines experience a small number of rev range 2. After 3 seasons, the Parr car has only 2 seconds of rev range 2. It is essential for any buyer of a Porsche to get a rev range 2 print out, it tells you an awful lot about how the car has been driven and if there is any potenial engine damage.

Steve R[/quote]

Top tip

[Pugsey]

Steve. Poor show - you've let the side down by actually answering the original post. I don't think you've grasped what PHs is all about!

[AndrewKillington]

murcielago_boy said:

henry-f said:

Does 119 cars (less written off / vanished ones / ones that are just plain horrible as they get older) constitute over supply on a car that whilst a joy on track is quite happy driving on normal roads. A core of say 40 -50 cars that will simply never come onto the market, 20 cars no longer with us, 50-60 cars that change hands every 2-3 years. 20 cars a year that come on the market. Take 1-2 months to sell. 3 to 5 cars on the market at any time.

The caveat here is that there will be some cars languishing with dealers on a sale or return basis that can be sold if the owner gets back some rediculous figure, so although they are on the market they`ll never sell !

I think the GT3 appeals to quite a broad audience, certainly one far beyond a pure trackday market. You forget there are people who like the idea their car is a race car even if they never race it.

Henry

Some sense at last!
There's not a damn thing wrong with that post. Trade bid from an OPC is an irrelevance - when will people realise this.

P.S. FOR GOD SAKE.... GT3RS is a BETTER road car than a MK2!!!!!!! It seems to me, with a few exceptions that a lot of people commenting have never driven both cars (or OWNED both - like me).

having owned both I'll second that; I was only saying to Mel yesterday that I find the RS a better road car than my MK 2.
never had an Astra so can't comment
Andrew

Edited by AndrewKillington on Tuesday 5th September 21:03

[964RS]

Great thread this but it should have the title

"996 boys argue over which variant is the worst"

Timmo, nice to meet you at NW yesterday, your car sounds sooooo good....but didn't a certain 993RS of JP win the 'corner' and standard MK2 GT3's win the other parts?

Interesting to read the comments that the GT3RS is viewed as a better road car than the GT3....my 964RS is like a dog on heat on the track but on crappy uk roads is not particularly pleasant unless you are really pushing on hard...

[DanH]

I'm not entirely sure of Steve's assertion about the RS having softer springs than the mk2 as it contradicts a claim by Andreas Preuninger in an article that was reprinted in Total 911 fairly recently. It claimed they went from 40Nm to 45Nm on the RS but also became progressive rather than linear which might account for perceptions of being softer. He also says that damping on the RS ends up between 10 & 15 percent stiffer than a standard GT3 on bounce + rebound simply because of less weight.

You can find the article in April 06 Total 911 or where it originally featured ages ago in the US mag whose name escapes me.

Sorry for the boring post

[BobM]

DanH said:

He also says that damping on the RS ends up between 10 & 15 percent stiffer than a standard GT3 on bounce + rebound simply because of less weight.

Doesn't sound right Dan, the only difference in weight is the carbon lids, plastic window and flywheel. Thought it totalled about 40kg max? Adding PCCBs and dropping the aircon would increase that but that's not really an RS specific difference. Then you can add in that lardy roll cage ...

[steve rance]

DanH said:

I'm not entirely sure of Steve's assertion about the RS having softer springs than the mk2 as it contradicts a claim by Andreas Preuninger in an article that was reprinted in Total 911 fairly recently. It claimed they went from 40Nm to 45Nm on the RS but also became progressive rather than linear which might account for perceptions of being softer. He also says that damping on the RS ends up between 10 & 15 percent stiffer than a standard GT3 on bounce + rebound simply because of less weight.

You can find the article in April 06 Total 911 or where it originally featured ages ago in the US mag whose name escapes me.

Sorry for the boring post

I read that too, but we took the springs off of the RS and checked them. They are definitely softer and - as a result need throwing away if you want to optimise track performance. This was dissapointing, not neccessary with the 964 or 993RS's.

[DanH]

BobM said:

DanH said:

He also says that damping on the RS ends up between 10 & 15 percent stiffer than a standard GT3 on bounce + rebound simply because of less weight.

Doesn't sound right Dan, the only difference in weight is the carbon lids, plastic window and flywheel. Thought it totalled about 40kg max? Adding PCCBs and dropping the aircon would increase that but that's not really an RS specific difference. Then you can add in that lardy roll cage ...

Never seen it confirmed either way whether the cage counts in the official figures as it is part of the standard spec unlike the aircon...

Dunno about the damping either really, as whilst I test drove a few mk2s I never took them on the kind of roads where I could appreciate a difference. For some reason the OPC didn't direct me in those directions on the test drives

[timmo]

964RS
I didnt perform well at North Weald it was too bumpy - my car is set up for trackdays
and smooth surfaces - I spent most of the time in the air
(excuse no.102b)

tim

[steve rance]

timmo said:

964RS
I didnt perform well at North Weald it was too bumpy - my car is set up for trackdays
and smooth surfaces - I spent most of the time in the air
(excuse no.102b)

tim

Tart..

[Merritt]

steve rance said:

timmo said:

964RS
I didnt perform well at North Weald it was too bumpy - my car is set up for trackdays
and smooth surfaces - I spent most of the time in the air
(excuse no.102b)

tim

Tart..

In fairness - it was fekkin' bumpy!

Edited by Merritt on Wednesday 6th September 11:27

[DanH]

Merritt said:

steve rance said:

timmo said:

964RS
I didnt perform well at North Weald it was too bumpy - my car is set up for trackdays
and smooth surfaces - I spent most of the time in the air
(excuse no.102b)

tim

Tart..

In fairness - it was fekkin' bumpy!

Edited by Merritt on Wednesday 6th September 11:27

Yep its a nightmare. Did it in the wet a while back and spent most of my time trying to avoid going sideways or off into one of those ruddy fences.

What was the fastest car of the day out of interest? I know in aggregate the GT3s kicked arse.

[Pugsey]

DanH said:

Merritt said:

steve rance said:

timmo said:

964RS
I didnt perform well at North Weald it was too bumpy - my car is set up for trackdays
and smooth surfaces - I spent most of the time in the air
(excuse no.102b)

tim

Tart..

In fairness - it was fekkin' bumpy!

Edited by Merritt on Wednesday 6th September 11:27

Yep its a nightmare. Did it in the wet a while back and spent most of my time trying to avoid going sideways or off into one of those ruddy fences.

What was the fastest car of the day out of interest? I know in aggregate the GT3s kicked arse.

Plse excuse ignorance but what is the event you're all talking about - sounds interesting. Is it an annual thing or more frequent. Cheers.