At least Dick Turpin wore a mask....
Discussion
I've done many a day with my air con on - I'd say essential for a track day car.
OK, back to laughing at Ves's offers
I've said before, if I'm ever rich enough to upgrade from my turbo I'm simply going to donate it to charity rather than be phsychologically damaged by trying to PX it.
OK, back to laughing at Ves's offers
I've said before, if I'm ever rich enough to upgrade from my turbo I'm simply going to donate it to charity rather than be phsychologically damaged by trying to PX it.
This thread was pointed out to me, you might be interested to read about a situation I find myself in.... Self inflicted I grant
gwp
Three years ago I wrote a letter of intent to an OPC just outside of Birmingham, stating my intention to purchase a 997Turbo and please put my name on the list.
Time went on and much chatter and photo teasing came with the launch of the new Turbo. Then talk on the forums about deposits being placed etc...
However I had heard nothing and had received no such invitation, so keen to own the new car I went into the dealership in question to check everything was OK.
Luckily I knew the salesman (possibly for the wrong reasons) and he also knew about my Letter of intent. He went to check my position and to clarify what was happening only to return and say, are you sure you placed a letter of intent? I replied that I was quite sure, he replied, can you prove it or have a copy of it?
I had kept a copy of the letter and showed it to the sales team… we’ll get back to you.
A few days later a call came through saying would I like to pop along and bring my deposit with me. They said that the details had been sent through to Porsche Cars UK who had muddled up the order and they were not to blame! But they had managed to find a slot on the list for me. I duly placed the deposit and started to spec the car up…
No brochure arrived, no invitation for the launch came through, and I once again asked the questions and hey presto the pack and an invitation arrived on a date that I would be at Lemans…
I received a letter from the OPC saying that the original salesman had left and introducing my new salesman.
Time moved on and to be fair the new salesman has tried his best to help me as much as they can, it finally reached the time to place the final spec and talk about monies and the trade in of my current car.
Never really anyone’s favourite time to be told their pride and joy is worth nothing and its all wrong, however my current 996Turbo cabriolet was luckily well spec’d and was possibly in the correct colour combinations, so what excuse would they come up with… Mileage
I had covered some miles in the car and that was obviously against me. The salesperson looked over and test drove the car and came back with it needed new discs and brakes on the front, I already knew this as it was reported on the major service that had been completed just a few thousand miles previous.
With a lower value as it had the mileage and showed this with its condition, Reluctantly I accepted the valuation and started to put things into place, which brings us up to yesterday when I drove the car for the final time to the OPC.
Paperwork was completed, cheques signed and Finance houses finished.
Until today…
My sales contact rang to say the car had been valeted and cleaned and they had found that the front PU and bonnet had more stone chips on it than expected, so it would need a front end respray. The head salesperson felt it was no longer worth the valuation and was basically blaming the salesman for over valuing the car. It was suggested I ring the head salesman to discuss this further. Obviously I’m pretty gobsmacked at this time that they are backtracking on a signed deal.
I called the head salesman who calmly started by saying that he was aware that I had an order for a new Turbo and if I wished to cancel the order there were plenty of people ready to take my place!!!
He said that salesman had overvalued the car and in its condition it wasn’t worth what they had agreed, also the windscreen was scratched and they couldn’t retail the car in such a state. He also pointed out that he didn’t have to take it in as a part exchange and had recently traded in similar cars in better condition. My point that it had done quite a few miles and was so valued at that made no difference to him.
It was then suggested that I claim on my insurance for the windscreen to which I pointed out, I no longer owned that car and the insurance and tax had been cancelled.
He was saying now that I was required to pay (in the way of less valuation) an additional £1600 towards them doing the necessary repair in order for them to resell the car… They are expecting to mark it up by £10K
Obviously I was slightly amazed and slightly annoyed, so it came down to me saying I’d collect the car back, the head salesman replied fine and put the phone down…..
I have since spoken to my sales contact and the deal is now back on, still with me paying for the repairs… I am amazed at the service I have received and the way the dealership have dispensed with customer service and loyalty whilst leaving the salesman out to dry, they have bluntly blamed the salesman for this “mistake” and the head of sales openly blamed him for it, even though he was acting on their behalf at the time, they have taken no responsibility whatsoever.
They obviously know I want the car and have played it to their advantage.
I would dearly love to walk away from the deal but the issue of getting the full deposit back is another thing, the small print neither says you will or won't get 100% of the deposit back (checked when I left the deposit).
I'm aware its not the best place to trade a car in, but its not really about the money at this point, its the way things are being handled.
I think letters to the dealer principle and Porsche cars are a starting point (for what its worth ) but I'm still slightly shell shocked at this point.
gwp
Three years ago I wrote a letter of intent to an OPC just outside of Birmingham, stating my intention to purchase a 997Turbo and please put my name on the list.
Time went on and much chatter and photo teasing came with the launch of the new Turbo. Then talk on the forums about deposits being placed etc...
However I had heard nothing and had received no such invitation, so keen to own the new car I went into the dealership in question to check everything was OK.
Luckily I knew the salesman (possibly for the wrong reasons) and he also knew about my Letter of intent. He went to check my position and to clarify what was happening only to return and say, are you sure you placed a letter of intent? I replied that I was quite sure, he replied, can you prove it or have a copy of it?
I had kept a copy of the letter and showed it to the sales team… we’ll get back to you.
A few days later a call came through saying would I like to pop along and bring my deposit with me. They said that the details had been sent through to Porsche Cars UK who had muddled up the order and they were not to blame! But they had managed to find a slot on the list for me. I duly placed the deposit and started to spec the car up…
No brochure arrived, no invitation for the launch came through, and I once again asked the questions and hey presto the pack and an invitation arrived on a date that I would be at Lemans…
I received a letter from the OPC saying that the original salesman had left and introducing my new salesman.
Time moved on and to be fair the new salesman has tried his best to help me as much as they can, it finally reached the time to place the final spec and talk about monies and the trade in of my current car.
Never really anyone’s favourite time to be told their pride and joy is worth nothing and its all wrong, however my current 996Turbo cabriolet was luckily well spec’d and was possibly in the correct colour combinations, so what excuse would they come up with… Mileage
I had covered some miles in the car and that was obviously against me. The salesperson looked over and test drove the car and came back with it needed new discs and brakes on the front, I already knew this as it was reported on the major service that had been completed just a few thousand miles previous.
With a lower value as it had the mileage and showed this with its condition, Reluctantly I accepted the valuation and started to put things into place, which brings us up to yesterday when I drove the car for the final time to the OPC.
Paperwork was completed, cheques signed and Finance houses finished.
Until today…
My sales contact rang to say the car had been valeted and cleaned and they had found that the front PU and bonnet had more stone chips on it than expected, so it would need a front end respray. The head salesperson felt it was no longer worth the valuation and was basically blaming the salesman for over valuing the car. It was suggested I ring the head salesman to discuss this further. Obviously I’m pretty gobsmacked at this time that they are backtracking on a signed deal.
I called the head salesman who calmly started by saying that he was aware that I had an order for a new Turbo and if I wished to cancel the order there were plenty of people ready to take my place!!!
He said that salesman had overvalued the car and in its condition it wasn’t worth what they had agreed, also the windscreen was scratched and they couldn’t retail the car in such a state. He also pointed out that he didn’t have to take it in as a part exchange and had recently traded in similar cars in better condition. My point that it had done quite a few miles and was so valued at that made no difference to him.
It was then suggested that I claim on my insurance for the windscreen to which I pointed out, I no longer owned that car and the insurance and tax had been cancelled.
He was saying now that I was required to pay (in the way of less valuation) an additional £1600 towards them doing the necessary repair in order for them to resell the car… They are expecting to mark it up by £10K
Obviously I was slightly amazed and slightly annoyed, so it came down to me saying I’d collect the car back, the head salesman replied fine and put the phone down…..
I have since spoken to my sales contact and the deal is now back on, still with me paying for the repairs… I am amazed at the service I have received and the way the dealership have dispensed with customer service and loyalty whilst leaving the salesman out to dry, they have bluntly blamed the salesman for this “mistake” and the head of sales openly blamed him for it, even though he was acting on their behalf at the time, they have taken no responsibility whatsoever.
They obviously know I want the car and have played it to their advantage.
I would dearly love to walk away from the deal but the issue of getting the full deposit back is another thing, the small print neither says you will or won't get 100% of the deposit back (checked when I left the deposit).
I'm aware its not the best place to trade a car in, but its not really about the money at this point, its the way things are being handled.
I think letters to the dealer principle and Porsche cars are a starting point (for what its worth ) but I'm still slightly shell shocked at this point.
I have to say thats quite dissapointing. I have to say when I traded the Vectra VXR in for the Boxster I was suprised at how they went over the car. I was also very suprised that when hand over day came they went over the car once again. This is the first time it has ever happened to me.
I've always been satisfied with my OPC but I wouldn't trade my car in through them - better to sell it to an independant or private.
I've always lost money on cars except two - a VW Beetle where I got £100 more than I paid for it, and surprise, a 944 Turbo which I had for 5 years and sold it for £5 less than I paid for it !!
I've always lost money on cars except two - a VW Beetle where I got £100 more than I paid for it, and surprise, a 944 Turbo which I had for 5 years and sold it for £5 less than I paid for it !!
Vesuvius 996 said:
OK so I am going to get slated here, but just got back from an OPC where I went (with totally serious purchasing intent) to look at a GT3. I need cheering up and that would be just the ticket.
So I view the car, lovely thing.
Then comes the problem. The car I bought from OPC 18 months ago for £38k is now, apparently, a worthless piece of rubbish. Their opening offer? £24k. Even Henry (bless him) bid me £27k to buy the car outright!!
So that's £14k in 18 months then, is it?!
And this on a car which has four new tyres, a fresh OPC service and a Porsche warranty.
So I shall be selling privately and buying from a Specialist, then bunging the Porsche warranty on it.
"Teeves."
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Tuesday 5th September 10:19
I hate to say it but what do you expect from an OPC. They have £10/12k margins to protect.
I bought my Boxster for a little over 20K. When I practically let it go for free I still only lost £4.5K which for me is a very acceptable level of depreciation.
Also, with my 911 I have paid less the Heny F was offering you for a trade-in. Best of all is that I had to pick it up from the OPC direct as it was at the dealers having its inspection and the deal had already been done. Rocked up with my girlfriend and spend a half hour knocking around the OPC getting the full 911 purchase experience.....and a full warranty....
OPC's are for buying new. Other than that why fund the dealers kids school fees?
kayc said:
Same old discussion...forget the dealers..OPC or indies coz they all take the piss...buy and sell privately and stop giving those tosspots cash
KayC,
Is it generally a smooth process to buy/sell a 997 compared with eg selling a 993 privately? Are there smart questions one can ask a prospective buyer caller to make sure they're not time-wasters/tyre kickers?
shocked at gwc's story
am I missing something here? you have a signed agreement for a PX value and an order agreed on a new car. Was there something in the smll print that said they could renege on the deal? Or was the PX value subject to change until you got the 997 turbo?
If I was PX I would try and do the deal there and then, and be carless or use 2nd car until new Porsche arrived - they have you over a barrel for re-negotiating when the new car has arrived
gwp said:
Paperwork was completed, cheques signed and Finance houses finished.
Obviously I’m pretty gobsmacked at this time that they are backtracking on a signed deal.
Obviously I’m pretty gobsmacked at this time that they are backtracking on a signed deal.
am I missing something here? you have a signed agreement for a PX value and an order agreed on a new car. Was there something in the smll print that said they could renege on the deal? Or was the PX value subject to change until you got the 997 turbo?
If I was PX I would try and do the deal there and then, and be carless or use 2nd car until new Porsche arrived - they have you over a barrel for re-negotiating when the new car has arrived
Adam B said:
am I missing something here? you have a signed agreement for a PX value and an order agreed on a new car. Was there something in the Small print that said they could renege on the deal? Or was the PX value subject to change until you got the 997 turbo?
If I was PX I would try and do the deal there and then, and be carless or use 2nd car until new Porsche arrived - they have you over a barrel for re-negotiating when the new car has arrived
My car was traded in early, suggested by OPC to gain highest resale value(for them I suppose)My new car is not expected until late October.
I signed on the day for the spec and confirmed order of the new car, I also signed over ownership to the OPC of my current car(trade in).
The figures worked out were ones required to pay off existing finance on the current car. Cheques were written by me, to clear the finance based upon the trade in value by the OPC.
The day after this is when the Head sales guy said he would no longer honour the valuation and they will now be looking for an addition cheque from me to make up for the repairs.
As I saw it at the time the figures were agreed, papers and cheques signed.. and handshakes accepted. It was a finalised deal.
If you sold your used car and the guy who purchased off you called the day following and said, I think I want the front end respraying and a new windowscreen, will you give me back some of my money, what do you think your reply may be ?
For me, this is no longer about the monies, I readily accept that the OPC is not the best value for a trade in..
Its more about, can they do this, did they break an agreed contract with me and customer service..
Thank you for your opinions on this, I'm hoping I've not become blinkered with anger..
GP
Edited by gwp on Wednesday 6th September 10:19
gwp said:
Adam B said:
am I missing something here? you have a signed agreement for a PX value and an order agreed on a new car. Was there something in the Small print that said they could renege on the deal? Or was the PX value subject to change until you got the 997 turbo?
If I was PX I would try and do the deal there and then, and be carless or use 2nd car until new Porsche arrived - they have you over a barrel for re-negotiating when the new car has arrived
My car was traded in early, suggested by OPC to gain highest resale value(for them I suppose)My new car is not expected until late October.
I signed on the day for the spec and confirmed order of the new car, I also signed over ownership to the OPC of my current car(trade in).
The figures worked out were ones required to pay off existing finance on the current car. Cheques were written by me, to clear the finance based upon the trade in value by the OPC.
The day after this is when the Head sales guy said he would no longer honour the valuation and they will now be looking for an addition cheque from me to make up for the repairs.
As I saw it at the time the figures were agreed, papers and cheques signed.. and handshakes accepted. It was a finalised deal.
If you sold your used car and the guy who purchased off you called the day following and said, I think I want the front end respraying and a new windowscreen, will you give me back some of my money, what do you think your reply may be ?
For me, this is no longer about the monies, I readily accept that the OPC is not the best value for a trade in..
Its more about, can they do this, did they break an agreed contract with me and customer service..
Thank you for your opinions on this, I'm hoping I've not become blinkered with anger..
GP
Edited by gwp on Wednesday 6th September 10:19
Let's be very clear about this - they gave you a trade in price, you went to take the car in to do the deal and then they went over it again and said "oh, sorry, it's got a few more chips than we thought we're knocking £1600 off."
Tell them, in words of one syllable, that you had a deal, and that they are f
d well going to honour it. If the salesman over valued your car it's HIS FAULT. They can get it back out of his wages. This is c
ish behaviour. Phone the dealer principal IMMEDIATELY, and explain that having bought a £100k car off them you don't expect to be treated like a w@nker. This sounds to me like the sales guy screwed up, the senior sales guy is trying to wriggle out of it. The dealer pricinple will likely take your side and administer a b0llocking.
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Wednesday 6th September 10:44
Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Wednesday 6th September 10:53
gwp said:
The figures worked out were ones required to pay off existing finance on the current car. Cheques were written by me, to clear the finance based upon the trade in value by the OPC.
The day after this is when the Head sales guy said he would no longer honour the valuation and they will now be looking for an addition cheque from me to make up for the repairs.
As I saw it at the time the figures were agreed, papers and cheques signed.. and handshakes accepted. It was a finalised deal.
That's outrageous. It seems to me that the original salesman that "misvalued" you car was acting as an agent of the dealership, and so made the offer on behalf of the dealership. If he's incompetent then it's their problem not yours. It's not like he personally bought your car and took it back to his place; the dealership bought it. The day after this is when the Head sales guy said he would no longer honour the valuation and they will now be looking for an addition cheque from me to make up for the repairs.
As I saw it at the time the figures were agreed, papers and cheques signed.. and handshakes accepted. It was a finalised deal.
It seems to me to be akin to a bus company employing a driver that can't drive, and when he crashes the bus and kills the passengers, claiming that it's his fault and not theirs!
OPC salesmen always remind me of that advert, I think for the AA, where the guy ends up dressed as a clown, laughing as the unsuspecting buyer disappears down the road!
gwp said:
I signed on the day for the spec and confirmed order of the new car, I also signed over ownership to the OPC of my current car(trade in).
and this is my point - tell them to go **** themselves (in the polite-ist possible way), I would take this all the way 1. dealer principal 2. Porsche UK Reading 3. Small claims court / watchdog / every website in the land.
seriously do not put up with this, do not get angry, take it higher (if no joy then get extremely angry)
Adam B said:
gwp said:
I signed on the day for the spec and confirmed order of the new car, I also signed over ownership to the OPC of my current car(trade in).
and this is my point - tell them to go **** themselves (in the polite-ist possible way), I would take this all the way 1. dealer principal 2. Porsche UK Reading 3. Small claims court / watchdog / every website in the land.
seriously do not put up with this, do not get angry, take it higher (if no joy then get extremely angry)
Yes sir. Fact is that their employee made a commitment biding on the OPC. If someone higher up doesn't like it, their beef is with the sales gimpoid not you.
Ring the dealer principal, right now, and do not take no for an answer. Let us know what happens.
Problem with this is that the guy p/x'ing the Turbo which needs a repaint and screen will probably get his deal honoured. If you tell the OPC you have deal and if they want to back out you will expect your old finance package to be reinstated in exact terms (this is almost impossible).
But the opc will then have to fit new brakes, repaint front end, fit new screen, probably change a couple of tyres, add a warranty, service car, finance the stock on their forecourt then sell at a realistic price to cover this.
A pheader in turn will buy it and in due course come back on this forum and say he hes been robbed as his new car has dropped 10k minimum!!
Bennno
bennno said:
Problem with this is that the guy p/x'ing the Turbo which needs a repaint and screen will probably get his deal honoured. If you tell the OPC you have deal and if they want to back out you will expect your old finance package to be reinstated in exact terms (this is almost impossible).
But the opc will then have to fit new brakes, repaint front end, fit new screen, probably change a couple of tyres, add a warranty, service car, finance the stock on their forecourt then sell at a realistic price to cover this.
A pheader in turn will buy it and in due course come back on this forum and say he hes been robbed as his new car has dropped 10k minimum!!
Bennno
Benno, I haven't been robbed as I didn't fall for it. I was merely remarking that they are trying it on....!!
bennno said:
Problem with this is that the guy p/x'ing the Turbo which needs a repaint and screen will probably get his deal honoured. If you tell the OPC you have deal and if they want to back out you will expect your old finance package to be reinstated in exact terms (this is almost impossible).
But the opc will then have to fit new brakes, repaint front end, fit new screen, probably change a couple of tyres, add a warranty, service car, finance the stock on their forecourt then sell at a realistic price to cover this.
A pheader in turn will buy it and in due course come back on this forum and say he hes been robbed as his new car has dropped 10k minimum!!
Bennno
Well, not so much, because presumably the next buyer will know the price of the car before he buys it. So he can decide whether the extra £10k or whatever the OPC gimps add on to the asking price is worth it for the respray etc. If not he can just buy a different car.But the opc will then have to fit new brakes, repaint front end, fit new screen, probably change a couple of tyres, add a warranty, service car, finance the stock on their forecourt then sell at a realistic price to cover this.
A pheader in turn will buy it and in due course come back on this forum and say he hes been robbed as his new car has dropped 10k minimum!!
Bennno
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