Porsche only day at Bedford

[willibetz]

Moosh,

Taken at face value, your posts suggest that you've a good attitude to learning and other circuit users. Circuit driving is not an easy skill to acquire, but it's very rewarding and instruction and the right kind of experience will pay dividends.

I'm amazed that your instructor didn't offer any advice on mirror use and track etiquette (actually, maybe I'm not, given how poor the briefing was), so if I may make some suggestions:

- At a minimum, it's good to check your mirrors on the exit of a corner, and at the end of a straight before braking and then again before coming off the brakes.

- If you see a car in your mirrors, either you've just overtaken it or it's quicker than you.

- If it's quicker than you, then let it pass as soon as you feel comfortable on the next straight.

- Even if your car is quicker in a straight line (which it probably will be!)

- It's good form to indicate, and remain to the appropriate side of the circuit (right at Bedford) and not accelerate while a car passes you.

An awareness of other circuit users, and respect for them, will vastly reduce risk and stress for all concerned.

Cheers,

WilliBetz

(co-driver of a silver GT3 with silly rear wing, which isn't as fast as your car in a straight line)

[ChopperEllis]

willibetz said:

I'm amazed that your instructor didn't offer any advice on mirror use and track etiquette

If you had the same one as me (Stephen, Irish accent) then it doesn't surprise me. He was ok but not fantastic. Was surprised that the Turbo is 4WD!!!

He was late and my session only lasted 20 minutes. And his idea of a cool down lap was telling me to turn into the pits whilst going round the corner before the pit lane

[futie]

Moosh said:

The corner just before the long straight I could not get right once, still not sure where the line is on that one.

Yep, really struggled with that one myself - didn't see a consistent line through there from anyone during the day! I eventually settled for:

- at the first right-hander, in 3rd, aim to clip the obvious apex on the right, heading right for the yellow cone
- as you're clipping the apex, brake & nip into 2nd
- leave it as late as possible & turn in (left)
- back on the power at the apex (on the left) and snatch 3rd as you run onto the grass on the right

.. shortly followed by:

- watch the GT3/turbo sail past on the straight ..

[peterpeter]

futie said:

Moosh said:

The corner just before the long straight I could not get right once, still not sure where the line is on that one.

Yep, really struggled with that one myself - didn't see a consistent line through there from anyone during the day! I eventually settled for:

- at the first right-hander, in 3rd, aim to clip the obvious apex on the right, heading right for the yellow cone
- as you're clipping the apex, brake & nip into 2nd
- leave it as late as possible & turn in (left)
- back on the power at the apex (on the left) and snatch 3rd as you run onto the grass on the right

.. shortly followed by:

- watch the GT3/turbo sail past on the straight ..

after several years of trying to get this corner right, Im sure this is the quickest way through.

I could catch up with cars perhaps 30-40 yards ahead by doing this.

1) as you approach the complex, stay on the right..which doesnt seem right, but because everyone goes to the left, they tend to brake very early to get the car to the outside of the track. Here you can wipe out huge gaps as you late brake. partly because the previous left corner is so fast, you need to slow the car quite a bit to get it over to the left. If you are aiming for the right tho, you can nail the previous left pretty hard.
2) Brake very hard! and slow the car right down and pull over to the left of the long left curve...(2nd gear)
3) Hug the inside line as tight as possible, my left front wheel is right on the white line next to the grass and go round quick, but balance the throttle for smoothness to reduce weight shifting around. You will catch up with cars taking a wider line easily here.(2nd gear)
4)As the long sweep ends drift over to the right side of the track feeding in the power and nail the throttle as you touch the rightside of the track (2nd-3rd)

Of course, this is in a gt3 on sticky toyo r888s, so different cars might behave differently.

Also step 1 cannot be done safely if the car in front is within 20 yards of you as he will think you are tryingg to cut him up!! and it could be viewed as dangerous by the marshalls.
Stay to the left if in doubt!

Still, im sure its the quickest way through.

[clubsport]

No disrespect to suggested line, but arriving quickly at a turn in a 1600kg TT, I suspect it is a case of get round anyway you can!

[glenn mcmenamin]

peterpeter said:

futie said:

Moosh said:

The corner just before the long straight I could not get right once, still not sure where the line is on that one.

Yep, really struggled with that one myself - didn't see a consistent line through there from anyone during the day! I eventually settled for:

- at the first right-hander, in 3rd, aim to clip the obvious apex on the right, heading right for the yellow cone
- as you're clipping the apex, brake & nip into 2nd
- leave it as late as possible & turn in (left)
- back on the power at the apex (on the left) and snatch 3rd as you run onto the grass on the right

.. shortly followed by:

- watch the GT3/turbo sail past on the straight ..

after several years of trying to get this corner right, Im sure this is the quickest way through.

I could catch up with cars perhaps 30-40 yards ahead by doing this.

1) as you approach the complex, stay on the right..which doesnt seem right, but because everyone goes to the left, they tend to brake very early to get the car to the outside of the track. Here you can wipe out huge gaps as you late brake. partly because the previous left corner is so fast, you need to slow the car quite a bit to get it over to the left. If you are aiming for the right tho, you can nail the previous left pretty hard.
2) Brake very hard! and slow the car right down and pull over to the left of the long left curve...(2nd gear)
3) Hug the inside line as tight as possible, my left front wheel is right on the white line next to the grass and go round quick, but balance the throttle for smoothness to reduce weight shifting around. You will catch up with cars taking a wider line easily here.(2nd gear)
4)As the long sweep ends drift over to the right side of the track feeding in the power and nail the throttle as you touch the rightside of the track (2nd-3rd)

Of course, this is in a gt3 on sticky toyo r888s, so different cars might behave differently.

Also step 1 cannot be done safely if the car in front is within 20 yards of you as he will think you are tryingg to cut him up!! and it could be viewed as dangerous by the marshalls.
Stay to the left if in doubt!

Still, im sure its the quickest way through.

Tiff,

Never thought of doing that, but makes perfect sense tbh...

Thinking about it, there's not much point coming in from the far left, as too much speed will just make you wash out
to the right, when going around the left hander...

You ,must know every bump at that place now eh ???, how many days there have you done now ???

I'm looking forward to learning it again, as i haven't driven there for well over a year now, so
have plenty catching up to do in the new year

G.

[ChopperEllis]

peterpeter said:

futie said:

Moosh said:

The corner just before the long straight I could not get right once, still not sure where the line is on that one.

Yep, really struggled with that one myself - didn't see a consistent line through there from anyone during the day! I eventually settled for:

- at the first right-hander, in 3rd, aim to clip the obvious apex on the right, heading right for the yellow cone
- as you're clipping the apex, brake & nip into 2nd
- leave it as late as possible & turn in (left)
- back on the power at the apex (on the left) and snatch 3rd as you run onto the grass on the right

.. shortly followed by:

- watch the GT3/turbo sail past on the straight ..

after several years of trying to get this corner right, Im sure this is the quickest way through.

I could catch up with cars perhaps 30-40 yards ahead by doing this.

1) as you approach the complex, stay on the right..which doesnt seem right, but because everyone goes to the left, they tend to brake very early to get the car to the outside of the track. Here you can wipe out huge gaps as you late brake. partly because the previous left corner is so fast, you need to slow the car quite a bit to get it over to the left. If you are aiming for the right tho, you can nail the previous left pretty hard.
2) Brake very hard! and slow the car right down and pull over to the left of the long left curve...(2nd gear)
3) Hug the inside line as tight as possible, my left front wheel is right on the white line next to the grass and go round quick, but balance the throttle for smoothness to reduce weight shifting around. You will catch up with cars taking a wider line easily here.(2nd gear)
4)As the long sweep ends drift over to the right side of the track feeding in the power and nail the throttle as you touch the rightside of the track (2nd-3rd)

Of course, this is in a gt3 on sticky toyo r888s, so different cars might behave differently.

Also step 1 cannot be done safely if the car in front is within 20 yards of you as he will think you are tryingg to cut him up!! and it could be viewed as dangerous by the marshalls.
Stay to the left if in doubt!

Still, im sure its the quickest way through.

peterpeter said:

after several years of trying to get this corner right, Im sure this is the quickest way through.

I could catch up with cars perhaps 30-40 yards ahead by doing this.

1) as you approach the complex, stay on the right..which doesnt seem right, but because everyone goes to the left, they tend to brake very early to get the car to the outside of the track. Here you can wipe out huge gaps as you late brake. partly because the previous left corner is so fast, you need to slow the car quite a bit to get it over to the left. If you are aiming for the right tho, you can nail the previous left pretty hard.
2) Brake very hard! and slow the car right down and pull over to the left of the long left curve...(2nd gear)
3) Hug the inside line as tight as possible, my left front wheel is right on the white line next to the grass and go round quick, but balance the throttle for smoothness to reduce weight shifting around. You will catch up with cars taking a wider line easily here.(2nd gear)
4)As the long sweep ends drift over to the right side of the track feeding in the power and nail the throttle as you touch the rightside of the track (2nd-3rd)

Of course, this is in a gt3 on sticky toyo r888s, so different cars might behave differently.

Also step 1 cannot be done safely if the car in front is within 20 yards of you as he will think you are tryingg to cut him up!! and it could be viewed as dangerous by the marshalls.
Stay to the left if in doubt!

Still, im sure its the quickest way through.

I followed you in to this corner and saw the start of it, i.e. over to the right, but never the end. I guess it works then

[Moosh]

On my lesson at Bedford I was told to change down though the gears at the end of the long straight, i.e. 6th, 5th, 4th 3rd to 2nd for the bend, do you think this is right? At Brands the instructor said to brake and then change straight down to 2nd from 4th.

[ChopperEllis]

Moosh said:

On my lesson at Bedford I was told to change down though the gears at the end of the long straight, i.e. 6th, 5th, 4th 3rd to 2nd for the bend, do you think this is right? At Brands the instructor said to brake and then change straight down to 2nd from 4th.

My guy told me not to miss a gear too. I was doing 5th to 3rd until he stopped me.

Did you really take that bend in 2nd? I was going round there in third - I did try it once in 5th by mistake but I wouldn't recommend it

[peterpeter]

Glenn,

looking forward to what I know will end up being a very expensive ride in your RS..

I hope not too many people try out that line, because if lots do with cars running the standard line nearby, its a recipe for disaster.

Ive been there too many times now (ten years (ten times a year perhaps?). still on a day with great weather I still ove it though.

Yikes.

[glenn mcmenamin]

Moosh said:

On my lesson at Bedford I was told to change down though the gears at the end of the long straight, i.e. 6th, 5th, 4th 3rd to 2nd for the bend, do you think this is right? At Brands the instructor said to brake and then change straight down to 2nd from 4th.

That chicane is 3rd gear all day long !!!

If you manage to grab second without the engine going pop, then you're going to slow !!


G.

[rob_j]

ChopperEllis said:

Moosh said:

On my lesson at Bedford I was told to change down though the gears at the end of the long straight, i.e. 6th, 5th, 4th 3rd to 2nd for the bend, do you think this is right? At Brands the instructor said to brake and then change straight down to 2nd from 4th.

My guy told me not to miss a gear too. I was doing 5th to 3rd until he stopped me.

Did you really take that bend in 2nd? I was going round there in third - I did try it once in 5th by mistake but I wouldn't recommend it

Interesting the instructor i'd had last time was fine with me missing gears, but down the long straight only ever hit 5th when I got the bottom corner spot on, however he also said "fast" guys would take that chicane in 4th, which means you'd need to go through at over a ton

[paul968]

Doesn't Moosh mean the hairpin at the end of the straight (after the chicane)? 2nd would be silly slow at the chicane. I'd say that rowing down the gears is not a good thing as it reduces your ability to threshhold brake.

Paul

[ken993]

I've found massive differences in the quality of instructors at Bedford, it's not unusual for two guys to give conflicting advice. My advice would be to find an instructor who you feel comfortable with and stick with him, at least that way you will be consistant.

I agree with peterpeter's line on the corner before the back straight, I was shown that by an instructor and have always found you can make up time with that line.

[aasc]

paul968 said:

I'd say that rowing down the gears is not a good thing as it reduces your ability to threshhold brake.

Paul

For a novice going through the gears might be a touch slower but they'd be less prone to an over-rev if they block-change incorrectly.

[paulburrell]

Moosh, or X99 JOE as I now know you to be. thanks for standing up and being counted. It's not easy having your driving style publically criticised on such a public forum and therefore it takes some b*lls to put your hand up. I had sort of guessed you were fairly new to trackdays and as someone with a bit more experience I should perhaps have been a little less harsh with my post. After all, however experienced we think that we are, we are all still learning every time we go out on Circuit.

It sounds like the "passing move" at Brands is fixed in your memory and as such I doubt whether you would do the same thing again. Can't speak about Saturday as I don't think I ever came across you on Circuit.

As for offering a passenger lift if we meet up somewhere else, then that would be my pleasure. Not sure how much you would learn from an old fart like me but if it would help build on your early trackday experience then please come up and have a chat when we next bump (oops stupid phrase) into each other.

No hard feelings just keep watching those mirrors.


Steve

[paulburrell]

Tif

Your suggested line into the complex is indeed a very fast one and one that I have pacitised for some time now. However, the big problem is that if you have anyone in front of you taking the more traditional left hand line, despite making up huge acres of ground, you have to yield as you are effectively overtaking them on the wrong side, i.e. their right hand side. If there's no one there then it's definitely the line to use.

[peterpeter]

paulburrell said:

Tif

Your suggested line into the complex is indeed a very fast one and one that I have pacitised for some time now. However, the big problem is that if you have anyone in front of you taking the more traditional left hand line, despite making up huge acres of ground, you have to yield as you are effectively overtaking them on the wrong side, i.e. their right hand side. If there's no one there then it's definitely the line to use.

yep steve, that is what I said (but probably didnt make it clear at all)..it doesnt work if there a car within 20-30 yds in front, otherwise it looks like a nasty overtaking move that is likely to get your arse blackflagged.

But if you are 50-60 yds behind, you will come out of the complex right up the backside of the car in front.

[glenn mcmenamin]

peterpeter said:

But if you are 50-60 yds behind, you will come out of the complex right up the backside of the car in front.

Not that you are racing eh Tiff

Edited by glenn mcmenamin on Sunday 10th December 21:54

[willdew]

eastendr said:

That's me!