Shell V- power

[Dr S]

The 100 ocatne stuff actually added significant sound and resonsiveness to my old Boxster S but does not seem much different from the regular 98 in my Carrera S. The specs of fuel (not only the octane levels but also the additives used) vary a lot between countries, so it can easily be that the German 100 actually made a difference whilst a UK99 doesn't...

[mtbr]

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

[kayc]

mtbr said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

i apologise for the bad terminology but i reckon you know what i meant...low performance engines do not benefit from high octane fuel whereas high performance..especially turbo engines do..

[simonharrod911]

kayc said:

mtbr said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

i apologise for the bad terminology but i reckon you know what i meant...low performance engines do not benefit from high octane fuel whereas high performance..especially turbo engines do..

Interesting, why do forced induction engines benefit more than normally aspirated ones? My 997 ran like a dog without premium fuel in it, the GT2 just gobbles up anything with no noticeable different. NB I'm not having a go here KayC, I'm genuinely interested in why it's the case.

[kayc]

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

i apologise for the bad terminology but i reckon you know what i meant...low performance engines do not benefit from high octane fuel whereas high performance..especially turbo engines do..

Interesting, why do forced induction engines benefit more than normally aspirated ones? My 997 ran like a dog without premium fuel in it, the GT2 just gobbles up anything with no noticeable different. NB I'm not having a go here KayC, I'm genuinely interested in why it's the case.

Coz forced induction enines are under more stress thats all,the fact you couldnt notice that sums up what a tt you are.

[simonharrod911]

kayc said:

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

i apologise for the bad terminology but i reckon you know what i meant...low performance engines do not benefit from high octane fuel whereas high performance..especially turbo engines do..

Interesting, why do forced induction engines benefit more than normally aspirated ones? My 997 ran like a dog without premium fuel in it, the GT2 just gobbles up anything with no noticeable different. NB I'm not having a go here KayC, I'm genuinely interested in why it's the case.

Coz forced induction enines are under more stress thats all,the fact you couldnt notice that sums up what a tt you are.

Why would an engine that's under more stress benefit more from a higher octane fuel? Regarding the tt thing, you can work out who I am, where I work, where I live(through companies house) from my profile on here. You seem to hide. Does anyone know who this guy is and where he works?

[kayc]

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

i apologise for the bad terminology but i reckon you know what i meant...low performance engines do not benefit from high octane fuel whereas high performance..especially turbo engines do..

Interesting, why do forced induction engines benefit more than normally aspirated ones? My 997 ran like a dog without premium fuel in it, the GT2 just gobbles up anything with no noticeable different. NB I'm not having a go here KayC, I'm genuinely interested in why it's the case.

Coz forced induction enines are under more stress thats all,the fact you couldnt notice that sums up what a tt you are.

Why would an engine that's under more stress benefit more from a higher octane fuel? Regarding the tt thing, you can work out who I am, where I work, where I live(through companies house) from my profile on here. You seem to hide. Does anyone know who this guy is and where he works?

Why should where i work make any difference to what i post on this forum?Equally if fuel octane is irrelevant to engine performance why do people like Shell waste millions on research?Do think f1 teams run on Sainsburys 95 octane?

[sleep envy]

kayc said:

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

Just to expand upon what kayc has posted, most engines need to be rolling roaded and have the ECU maps tweaked to take full advantage of the increased octane fuels.

I know both my cars run better using optimax (the 205 starts a hell of a lot quicker from cold too) but I don't think it's worth filling every tank with, maybe 1 in 3 or 4.

[simonharrod911]

kayc said:

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

i apologise for the bad terminology but i reckon you know what i meant...low performance engines do not benefit from high octane fuel whereas high performance..especially turbo engines do..

Interesting, why do forced induction engines benefit more than normally aspirated ones? My 997 ran like a dog without premium fuel in it, the GT2 just gobbles up anything with no noticeable different. NB I'm not having a go here KayC, I'm genuinely interested in why it's the case.

Coz forced induction enines are under more stress thats all,the fact you couldnt notice that sums up what a tt you are.

Why would an engine that's under more stress benefit more from a higher octane fuel? Regarding the tt thing, you can work out who I am, where I work, where I live(through companies house) from my profile on here. You seem to hide. Does anyone know who this guy is and where he works?

Why should where i work make any difference to what i post on this forum?Equally if fuel octane is irrelevant to engine performance why do people like Shell waste millions on research?Do think f1 teams run on Sainsburys 95 octane?

No doubt higher octane fuel can be of benefit, but why especially turbocharged engines? When things get personal on here the resolution needs to take place in the real world, not the virtual one. See, that didn't hurt at all did it?

[nick_968]

It has nothing to do with the engine being under more stress.....you deal with that by building the engine stronger - better rods, bolts, studs, pistons etc. Something Porsche took care of already. It has to do with detonation and the better quality fuel used the more you can advance the timing and run more boost without hitting the detonation point. Porsche deal with this by fitting knock (detonation) sensors which listen for trouble and retard the timing accordingly to prevent any damage from poor quality fuel. The benefits are greater on a turbo car simply because they make more power the effect is magnified but the principle is the same. You will not notice the difference on a GT2 until you really floor it and even then as it is so quick anyway you still may not notice. You are more likely to notice a difference from a drop in air temperature than a change in fuel on a turbo car. As the air gets colder the intake charge becomes denser and the car will pull harder. The fuel may be more noticeable on an NA car because they dont make much midrange torque and therefor you are more likely to notice a small difference from the fuel quality.

[kayc]

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

simonharrod911 said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

kayc said:

mtbr said:

I really don't get all this "Brand loyalty" stuff.
I have just returned from a 3500 mile trip around France and Spain in my RS, where I used whatever "super" fuel the next petrol station was selling. When the tank was empty I filled it back up. I must have used 5 or 6 different 98ron fuels including Shell.

I could detect absolutely no discernable difference in the car's performance or how the engine ran, regardless of what "Brand" of petrol I used.
Perhaps small differences can be measured on a dynamometer. I don't really care, we drive our cars on roads, not dynos and most of the time at part throttle. Need more power? open the throttle wider. This applies until you are flat out everywhere. Anyone?

Shell are doing a great job of marketing a "premium" product, by playing on peoples love of their cars.
For me, the parable of the Emperors new clothes springs to mind!
If it don't knock, it's good enough.

Its nothing to with brand loyalty..just what makes the car run best...it also depends what you are driving as many petrol tests have proved.Non performance engines hardly benefit from upgraded fuel at all.

kayc, Your well known turbo preference not withstanding, most people on here would consider the 993RS to be a performance car, but what on earth is a non performance engine?

i apologise for the bad terminology but i reckon you know what i meant...low performance engines do not benefit from high octane fuel whereas high performance..especially turbo engines do..

Interesting, why do forced induction engines benefit more than normally aspirated ones? My 997 ran like a dog without premium fuel in it, the GT2 just gobbles up anything with no noticeable different. NB I'm not having a go here KayC, I'm genuinely interested in why it's the case.

Coz forced induction enines are under more stress thats all,the fact you couldnt notice that sums up what a tt you are.

Why would an engine that's under more stress benefit more from a higher octane fuel? Regarding the tt thing, you can work out who I am, where I work, where I live(through companies house) from my profile on here. You seem to hide. Does anyone know who this guy is and where he works?

Why should where i work make any difference to what i post on this forum?Equally if fuel octane is irrelevant to engine performance why do people like Shell waste millions on research?Do think f1 teams run on Sainsburys 95 octane?

No doubt higher octane fuel can be of benefit, but why especially turbocharged engines? When things get personal on here the resolution needs to take place in the real world, not the virtual one. See, that didn't hurt at all did it?

The simple fact is..you upgrade the ecu in a turbocharged car the first problem you get is fuel supply issues..ie pumps,mafs,quality of fuel etc..unlikey to be a problem in a bog standard 997,but you knew that anyway..

Edited by kayc on Wednesday 25th October 15:31

[willibetz]

simonharrod911 said:

Why would an engine that's under more stress benefit more from a higher octane fuel?

Simply put, forced induction engines increase the effective compression ratio. This increases the pressure and temperature in the cylinder and makes it a more demanding environment for the fuel - because you want the fuel to be ignited by the spark, not as a result of the pressure and temperature. Octane quality is a measure of the fuel's ability to resist combustion due to pressure and temperature ahead of the flame front that propogates from the spark, so you need higher octane quality in this severe environment. Octane quality aside, for power in a turbocharged engine, it's also great to have a fuel with high oxygen content and high density.

kayc said:

if fuel octane is irrelevant to engine performance why do people like Shell waste millions on research?Do think f1 teams run on Sainsburys 95 octane?

Octane quality is certainly not the only factor determining engine performance, and frequently not the most important. Especially in F1 engines, where peak engine speeds are so high that there's insufficient time for knock to occur.

WilliBetz

[nick_968]

If a turbo engine is tuned to run safely on 95 octane, which a GT2 is, then then even though it is more stressed than its NA counterpart it will run on 95 forever with no problems. Its only when you start tuning that you reach the limit of the fuel and need to run on higher octane fuel to allow you to push the limit.

[kayc]

brady said:

flemke said:

ballcock said:

Be happy!! .. When you get down to the nitty gritty of the small print , Shell V power in Ireland is a paltry 95 octane ..

But it's still about 8p/l more than 'unleaded 95' ... Feckin rippoff!!

So is there no "super premium" octane available there?
Are you saying that you can only procure standard "premium" with 95 RON, but they call it "V Power"?

i know of 2 garages in dublin that sell super unleaded, its a load of poop

It depends a lot on how old the fuel is,also what car its used in.

[Moosh]

I run an 996TT X50 upgraded to 520bhp. Since the upgrade I have found that the octane is very important and makes a lot of difference to the power. I use to fill up with Shell v-power, but now I find that BP ultimate gives me the best performance.

[simonharrod911]

Willibetz and nick_968 both seem to put convincing arguments, but they contradict each other. Any other comments? I'm particularly interested because my standard GT2 seems to drive identically on 95, although it's the first Porsche I've had that doesn't seem to benefit from better fuel.

Edited by simonharrod911 on Wednesday 25th October 16:36

[simonharrod911]

nick_968 said:

It has nothing to do with the engine being under more stress.....you deal with that by building the engine stronger - better rods, bolts, studs, pistons etc. Something Porsche took care of already. It has to do with detonation and the better quality fuel used the more you can advance the timing and run more boost without hitting the detonation point. Porsche deal with this by fitting knock (detonation) sensors which listen for trouble and retard the timing accordingly to prevent any damage from poor quality fuel. The benefits are greater on a turbo car simply because they make more power the effect is magnified but the principle is the same. You will not notice the difference on a GT2 until you really floor it and even then as it is so quick anyway you still may not notice. You are more likely to notice a difference from a drop in air temperature than a change in fuel on a turbo car. As the air gets colder the intake charge becomes denser and the car will pull harder. The fuel may be more noticeable on an NA car because they dont make much midrange torque and therefor you are more likely to notice a small difference from the fuel quality.

Agree with that, it's definitely quicker in colder weather.

[Moosh]

simonharrod911 said:

nick_968 said:

You are more likely to notice a difference from a drop in air temperature than a change in fuel on a turbo car. As the air gets colder the intake charge becomes denser and the car will pull harder. The fuel may be more noticeable on an NA car because they dont make much midrange torque and therefor you are more likely to notice a small difference from the fuel quality.

Agree with that, it's definitely quicker in colder weather.

Yes I agree with the above

[kayc]

Moosh said:

I run an 996TT X50 upgraded to 520bhp. Since the upgrade I have found that the octane is very important and makes a lot of difference to the power. I use to fill up with Shell v-power, but now I find that BP ultimate gives me the best performance.

V power is better than optimax in my tt ,could be psychological but it definately pulls harder(not me the car)..especially since the upgrade..

[nick_968]

GT2 and tt will pull harder on optimax as long as it is good optimax/ v-power, it goes off very fast. Just the difference will not be as noticeable as some nice crispy cold air thats all. Like I said before you wont run into problems with a porsche turbo until you go stupid on the boost levels and tune it right up.