Strange Behavior from Insurance Company
Discussion
I don't like paying insurance premiums any more than you or anyone else but they're a necessary evil.
Is the system fair? I'm not sure how many further variables and factors you can reasonably introduce into the quoting process.
If a given insurance company is having a laugh with its quote, simply go somewhere else and find another that is more reasonable - there are enough of them out there. If you can't afford to insure a given car, don't buy it! Come back when you've got more NCB or are older. It's as simple as that.
Is the system fair? I'm not sure how many further variables and factors you can reasonably introduce into the quoting process.
If a given insurance company is having a laugh with its quote, simply go somewhere else and find another that is more reasonable - there are enough of them out there. If you can't afford to insure a given car, don't buy it! Come back when you've got more NCB or are older. It's as simple as that.
Insurance companies can't all write the same risk for the same premium. The spread of risks between the miriad of companies would be too great for them to sustain large losses on that particular class of business. For example, an insurer decides it wants to target the Porsche market, they then attract a large number of insured risks on their book, say 2000 Porsche owners each paying £1000, they know perhaps across this spread each insured may have a £500 claim on average, with the occasional big loss. With the large amount of Porshce owners on their books, they should still be able to cover these losses and make a profit. If all insurers were to underwrite this risk at the same premium, they would have far less of fewer of this type of risk on their books - say only 10 policies of this type, the premium income is significantly down, however they still have the potential for one huge loss without having the premium income to cover it.
Thats why a company that specialises in women drivers offers good rates for.. Woman drivers! and don't want to touch the Porsche market, therefore set their rates 3 or 4 times higher than an underwriter wanting to take that market.
Also company fleet insurance usually has supporting business with it - eg the company takes out public / employers / product liability, professional indemnity, if they are a manufacturer then premises stock etc all covered which would be the profitable side of the business.
I am not an insurance broker / underwriter etc etc, I work in the IT field, but have in the past worked on Insurance company systems, so know how their rating models are put together, loss ratios etc, trust me usually motor insurance is a loss leader. I have also worked in a number of different industries ranging from finance to television / media on IT projects, so am not affiliated with the insurance industry in any way.
Thats why a company that specialises in women drivers offers good rates for.. Woman drivers! and don't want to touch the Porsche market, therefore set their rates 3 or 4 times higher than an underwriter wanting to take that market.
Also company fleet insurance usually has supporting business with it - eg the company takes out public / employers / product liability, professional indemnity, if they are a manufacturer then premises stock etc all covered which would be the profitable side of the business.
I am not an insurance broker / underwriter etc etc, I work in the IT field, but have in the past worked on Insurance company systems, so know how their rating models are put together, loss ratios etc, trust me usually motor insurance is a loss leader. I have also worked in a number of different industries ranging from finance to television / media on IT projects, so am not affiliated with the insurance industry in any way.
this could go on forever, my point is nobodys happy with their premiums for insurance and that in a perfect world we would all like them to be more personal etc with our insurance, my point its the underwriters who take the sting in a claim not so much the insurance company. I still believe that a lot of them make us pay over the odds even if its the cheapest quote we have had, it has to be over the odds i guess otherwise they wouldnt make a profit would they!!
phil_dougan said:
this could go on forever, my point is nobodys happy with their premiums for insurance and that in a perfect world we would all like them to be more personal etc with our insurance, my point its the underwriters who take the sting in a claim not so much the insurance company. I still believe that a lot of them make us pay over the odds even if its the cheapest quote we have had, it has to be over the odds i guess otherwise they wouldnt make a profit would they!!
Definitely agree with you on the not happy to pay the amount I do on insurance! Answer is for everyone to stop having accidents!
Also you are right, the broker makes his profit regardless of losses, which is why I think brokers are honestly an unnecesary party in 90% of motor insurance - I guess that is why direct insurers sprung up, and are so popular now. Unless I had something really bizarre to insure that needed a specialist to offer it to underwriters, I would always choose to insure direct. Brokers may argue they offer value added service in the event of claims etc, but the process for claiming for my F355 from a direct insurer was extrememly quick, very very fair, and hassle free.
Ah well, here's to hoping for reduced premiums in the future (unfortuantely not very likely!)
ek993 said:
phil_dougan said:
this could go on forever, my point is nobodys happy with their premiums for insurance and that in a perfect world we would all like them to be more personal etc with our insurance, my point its the underwriters who take the sting in a claim not so much the insurance company. I still believe that a lot of them make us pay over the odds even if its the cheapest quote we have had, it has to be over the odds i guess otherwise they wouldnt make a profit would they!!
Definitely agree with you on the not happy to pay the amount I do on insurance! Answer is for everyone to stop having accidents!
Also you are right, the broker makes his profit regardless of losses, which is why I think brokers are honestly an unnecesary party in 90% of motor insurance - I guess that is why direct insurers sprung up, and are so popular now. Unless I had something really bizarre to insure that needed a specialist to offer it to underwriters, I would always choose to insure direct. Brokers may argue they offer value added service in the event of claims etc, but the process for claiming for my F355 from a direct insurer was extrememly quick, very very fair, and hassle free.
Ah well, here's to hoping for reduced premiums in the future (unfortuantely not very likely!)
its nice on here isnt it when although we argue we all agree really haha!!! so what do you drive now??? and the biggest question has to be how does it compare to the Ferrari?? i hear many myths about Ferraris being fantastic and that the Porsche badge guarentees you some reliability over a Ferrari.Having not been lucky enough to own a Ferrari yet what would your opinion be?? regards Phil
Phil I'm going to upset everyone on here... but...
The Ferrari, for me at least, and in my humble opinion, is a far better ownership / driving experience than the Porsche. I loved everything about the 355. The looks, sound of the engine, 8250rpm rev limit (I love revvy cars), smell of the interior. The whole package really worked for me. I would say though that the Ferrari was completely reliable - never once failed to start, didn't need to replace anything unexpected, the only real money I spent on it was servicing, which was expensive as it was a cambelt service. And then it blew up!! **ahem**
The 993 Turbo4 is definitely faster, far better built, reliability the same as the 355. But, it is so clinical, too much so for me. Ultimately I prefer the Ferrari. But the Turbo is hardly a hardship to drive!!
Can I just say, any Turbo owners, please don't get upset / angry with my above opinion, as it is just that, my opinion, there are plenty of Turbo drivers that wouldn't look twice at the Ferrari!
The Ferrari, for me at least, and in my humble opinion, is a far better ownership / driving experience than the Porsche. I loved everything about the 355. The looks, sound of the engine, 8250rpm rev limit (I love revvy cars), smell of the interior. The whole package really worked for me. I would say though that the Ferrari was completely reliable - never once failed to start, didn't need to replace anything unexpected, the only real money I spent on it was servicing, which was expensive as it was a cambelt service. And then it blew up!! **ahem**
The 993 Turbo4 is definitely faster, far better built, reliability the same as the 355. But, it is so clinical, too much so for me. Ultimately I prefer the Ferrari. But the Turbo is hardly a hardship to drive!!
Can I just say, any Turbo owners, please don't get upset / angry with my above opinion, as it is just that, my opinion, there are plenty of Turbo drivers that wouldn't look twice at the Ferrari!
So in other words the Ferrari is a proper driver/petrolheads car, i guess at the end of the day you can always say that you owned a Ferrari!! Do you think the 360 onwards are even better again??? i agree about looks and noise the Ferrari V8 is the BEST SOUNDING ENGINE FULL STOP nothing better and thats coming from a Porsche owner and i love porsches but the Ferrari is heart racingly good looking and the noise from a Ferrari is just heaven!!!! In the same instance the Porsche is a hell of a package because its not crazy for servicing etc ..
guyvert1 said:
Renwal comming up (996 C4 '02), paying around £900 with N/Union at mo, confu$sd.com produced a very good offer from E-sure, £495 !!.. After adding legal/protected etc, came to £540 odd. I rang E-sure, booked it all in, paid , no probs. Rec'd docs in post 2days later.
I noticed the 2nd drives DOB was one digit wrong, so called up and changed, however upon changing they politely advised they could no longer insure me due to the Insurance group, ie gp 20.. After 20minutes of me telling me how unhappy I was they promised to look into it, but best they can do so far was to offer me £25 M&S vouchers and a refund!!!
Does anyone know where I stand legally , having paid and rec'd docs ?
I noticed the 2nd drives DOB was one digit wrong, so called up and changed, however upon changing they politely advised they could no longer insure me due to the Insurance group, ie gp 20.. After 20minutes of me telling me how unhappy I was they promised to look into it, but best they can do so far was to offer me £25 M&S vouchers and a refund!!!
Does anyone know where I stand legally , having paid and rec'd docs ?
Morning chaps!
Bit late in this thread, but I believe I have the answer.
Just looking at changing my insurance and found a company that had a lower premium, plus the cover I was looking for. I called up to make some enquiries about the (online) quote (ie. the T&C did not state it needed a tracking device and I wanted to ensure) and was told that the insurers currently had a problem between the web quotation system and the actual system that I might be affected by.
The problem was that the insurers would not cover certain group 19 and group 20 cars. What was happening is the customers were getting the quote, purchasing and when the policy hit the main system 1 - 2 weeks later it would be rejected. They will then write to the customer advising they will be cancelling the policy in 7 days, refund the whole premium, apologise and give £25 of M&S vouchers.
The guy on the phone said my car may be in this category, and offered to check. I was on hold for 5 mins before he said they would cover my car (2006 Cayman S). He said the fault was complicated to fix and p*ssing off lots of people on the receiving end.
Sounds like you've been one those unfortunate ones.
Pikey
[quote=Lurking Lawyer]This came up on the S2000 board that I moderate - a number of people had taken out competitvely priced policies from MORE TH>N (part of NU) only for NU to then contact them after a few weeks and say it was a system balls-up which meant that Group 20 cars were let through even though they don't insure them.
MORE TH>N are not part of NU they are part of R&SA both companies defenatly insure group 20 cars through brokers.Im currently with R&SA(who own more than) through A plan ( a broker talk to Darren).NU also have an excelent porsche polocy called Club this includes track day cover this is sold through Cheem (a broker talk to Mark).Porsche cars are specalist cars as such im supprised that so many owners risk insuring there high net worth cars with bargin bucket insurers then seem outraged when they try and manage down there claims costs.That is how volume polocies work they will deal with you the same as if you are driving an escort van.
You get what you pay for and insurance varies in value massivly from company to company and also within companys ie there direct arms don't always offer like for like with the broker product this is because through somthing old fashond called a conversation(on a telephone)you can explain to your broker your needs he can advise you and negociate with the underwrirer on your behalf if he has delegated authority he can make the decision himself. now some of you may say its outragous that he makes commision for this but then he is running a business and commision is payed by the ins co not you.
MORE TH>N are not part of NU they are part of R&SA both companies defenatly insure group 20 cars through brokers.Im currently with R&SA(who own more than) through A plan ( a broker talk to Darren).NU also have an excelent porsche polocy called Club this includes track day cover this is sold through Cheem (a broker talk to Mark).Porsche cars are specalist cars as such im supprised that so many owners risk insuring there high net worth cars with bargin bucket insurers then seem outraged when they try and manage down there claims costs.That is how volume polocies work they will deal with you the same as if you are driving an escort van.
You get what you pay for and insurance varies in value massivly from company to company and also within companys ie there direct arms don't always offer like for like with the broker product this is because through somthing old fashond called a conversation(on a telephone)you can explain to your broker your needs he can advise you and negociate with the underwrirer on your behalf if he has delegated authority he can make the decision himself. now some of you may say its outragous that he makes commision for this but then he is running a business and commision is payed by the ins co not you.
Edited by lightweight on Monday 23 October 10:20
ek993 said:
Insurance companies can't all write the same risk for the same premium. The spread of risks between the miriad of companies would be too great for them to sustain large losses on that particular class of business. For example, an insurer decides it wants to target the Porsche market, they then attract a large number of insured risks on their book, say 2000 Porsche owners each paying £1000, they know perhaps across this spread each insured may have a £500 claim on average, with the occasional big loss. With the large amount of Porshce owners on their books, they should still be able to cover these losses and make a profit. If all insurers were to underwrite this risk at the same premium, they would have far less of fewer of this type of risk on their books - say only 10 policies of this type, the premium income is significantly down, however they still have the potential for one huge loss without having the premium income to cover it.
Thats why a company that specialises in women drivers offers good rates for.. Woman drivers! and don't want to touch the Porsche market, therefore set their rates 3 or 4 times higher than an underwriter wanting to take that market.
Also company fleet insurance usually has supporting business with it - eg the company takes out public / employers / product liability, professional indemnity, if they are a manufacturer then premises stock etc all covered which would be the profitable side of the business.
I am not an insurance broker / underwriter etc etc, I work in the IT field, but have in the past worked on Insurance company systems, so know how their rating models are put together, loss ratios etc, trust me usually motor insurance is a loss leader. I have also worked in a number of different industries ranging from finance to television / media on IT projects, so am not affiliated with the insurance industry in any way.
Thats why a company that specialises in women drivers offers good rates for.. Woman drivers! and don't want to touch the Porsche market, therefore set their rates 3 or 4 times higher than an underwriter wanting to take that market.
Also company fleet insurance usually has supporting business with it - eg the company takes out public / employers / product liability, professional indemnity, if they are a manufacturer then premises stock etc all covered which would be the profitable side of the business.
I am not an insurance broker / underwriter etc etc, I work in the IT field, but have in the past worked on Insurance company systems, so know how their rating models are put together, loss ratios etc, trust me usually motor insurance is a loss leader. I have also worked in a number of different industries ranging from finance to television / media on IT projects, so am not affiliated with the insurance industry in any way.
Very Informative! I'd often wondered how you ended up with such a bizarre spread of prices... All down to risk management. Seems obvious now it's explained
I still think the 'Magic 8 Ball' explanation we came up with down the pub fits better though
(as the above implies a great deal of planning and expertise, neither of which are often encountered when speaking to insurance companies) 
MORE THA>N have just given me seven days notice of termination saying that it was a system error that let me insure my C2 Cab, even though one of their sales team phoned me to ask if I would be taking out a policy from their quote on confused.com. Confused I am!!! So I'll take the £25 M&S voucher and my 2 weeks free insurance and go elsewhere NEVER to return or recommend MORE TH>N to anyone else.
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