Where are all the 964 lovers?
Discussion
Was interested reading the Early 911 thread (www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=327314&f=48&h=0) where a chap asked advice on buying an 80's or early 90's 911.
Suprised (and dismayed) the overwelling responce in favout of the 3.2 with little to no support of the 964.
I like the looks of only two 911s - the 996 turbo and the 964 (albeit a lowered one). I don't know what it is about the 964 but something abouts its shape makes me want to drool.
So, a new house purchase rules out the 996 turbo (for now) ... where are all the 964 owners to tempt me in to one of these instead?
In general terms just how unreliable are they? And just how costly are they to maintain and run? Can the regular independant Porsche specialists out there (around North London) maintain one of these? Or do I need someone even more specialised due to the age of the beast?
Also, browsing the classifieds:
- why are so many LHD?
- why are so few coupes? (don't want soft top)
Thanks in advance chaps and chapettes.
Matt
Suprised (and dismayed) the overwelling responce in favout of the 3.2 with little to no support of the 964.
I like the looks of only two 911s - the 996 turbo and the 964 (albeit a lowered one). I don't know what it is about the 964 but something abouts its shape makes me want to drool.
So, a new house purchase rules out the 996 turbo (for now) ... where are all the 964 owners to tempt me in to one of these instead?
In general terms just how unreliable are they? And just how costly are they to maintain and run? Can the regular independant Porsche specialists out there (around North London) maintain one of these? Or do I need someone even more specialised due to the age of the beast?
Also, browsing the classifieds:
- why are so many LHD?
- why are so few coupes? (don't want soft top)
Thanks in advance chaps and chapettes.
Matt
Ahhh, a fellow insomniac !
The 964 seems to fall between two stools, some say pay a bit extra and buy a 993, others say find the nicest 3.2 Carrera you can find for good 964 money.
Personally I think the 964 is a cracking car (especially in RS form, but that's a whole new can of worms) that is just as well (solidly) built as a the 993 but with a lot of the mod cons missing from the 3.2 Carrera.
Yes they DID have reliability problems but most are well known and (if you buy the right car) will have been addressed at someone elses expense.
Any decent independant will be able to service and maintain them (they've been around 17 years remember)
When I was looking for a car earlier in the year there were plenty of coupes about, if nothing else you need to be patient whilst looking for one.
I wanted a RHD coupe, not a C4, (and not with a light coloured interior) and lowish mileage. They are out there, you just have to keep looking at the correct sites regularly. (A lot of independants seem to shy away from stocking them because of their "poor" reputation)
This thread should give you some pointers www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=330246&f=48&h=0
Best of luck !
Slippy
The 964 seems to fall between two stools, some say pay a bit extra and buy a 993, others say find the nicest 3.2 Carrera you can find for good 964 money.
Personally I think the 964 is a cracking car (especially in RS form, but that's a whole new can of worms) that is just as well (solidly) built as a the 993 but with a lot of the mod cons missing from the 3.2 Carrera.
Yes they DID have reliability problems but most are well known and (if you buy the right car) will have been addressed at someone elses expense.
Any decent independant will be able to service and maintain them (they've been around 17 years remember)
When I was looking for a car earlier in the year there were plenty of coupes about, if nothing else you need to be patient whilst looking for one.
I wanted a RHD coupe, not a C4, (and not with a light coloured interior) and lowish mileage. They are out there, you just have to keep looking at the correct sites regularly. (A lot of independants seem to shy away from stocking them because of their "poor" reputation)
This thread should give you some pointers www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=330246&f=48&h=0
Best of luck !
Slippy
Edited by slippydiff on Monday 27th November 03:29
nervous said:
the 964 is my fave porsche, ever
Mine too, I reckon. And I don't normally like the idea of owning an old motor. There is just this 964 niggle eating away at me and whisphering I should own one.
nervous said:
also, be advised that for some reason all the ones you like will be lhd. so look at all ads armed and ready to be disappointed.
Already spotted that one! LHD or cabriolet - neither of which are the flavour I'm looking for.
A good, clean RHD coupe in C2 or 4 guise would suit me fine. Not even that fussed as to the exterior colour - seems to look nice in most shades - though I'd want dark interior.
Yes 964's are a brilliant car, look at it the other way, most of the benefits of the 993 at the price of the 3.2!
Reliability not a problem, I do about 40K a year in mine and it doesn't let me down.
And please at least consider LHD, more leg room, better weight distribution, overall just a car that was designed to be LHD!
Cabrio vs Targa vs Coupe is just personal taste.
Reliability not a problem, I do about 40K a year in mine and it doesn't let me down.
And please at least consider LHD, more leg room, better weight distribution, overall just a car that was designed to be LHD!
Cabrio vs Targa vs Coupe is just personal taste.
ok guys, now you've appeared out of the woodwork can you give me ballpark idea of running costs. Not bothered about depreciation or fuel. More interesting in if I'm going to need to put hundreds of £'s aside a month for maintenance. I know each car is different. What are your thoughts? I don't mind a bit of expense and hassle but if I'm going to spend more time fixing it than driving it then I think I should maybe consider something else.
Also does it qualify for classic car exemptions / insurance?
Tah!
Also does it qualify for classic car exemptions / insurance?
Tah!
Well fuel is good, i average about 30 to the gallon on all sorts of roads.
Depreciation is nothing anyway as they are at bottom of market at the mo.
Running costs, tyres aren't cheap, £100 a corner.
Oil change and service every 5K, I do my own but dealer would be £300? (I really dont know)
I had to do my clutch shortly after getting it, £400 job.
Not heavy on brakes, clutch or any other component really, just make sure you buy a good one.
Depreciation is nothing anyway as they are at bottom of market at the mo.
Running costs, tyres aren't cheap, £100 a corner.
Oil change and service every 5K, I do my own but dealer would be £300? (I really dont know)
I had to do my clutch shortly after getting it, £400 job.
Not heavy on brakes, clutch or any other component really, just make sure you buy a good one.
magic torch said:
Probably the usual internet hysteria though.
Oh so true. I have had mine for 3 years. The things that have broken (which were not my fault) you can count on one finger. As for the normal scare stories about flywheels, oil leaks, dizzy belts, clutch, electrical problems etc I have not had any of them and neither do the majority of owners I know. The one thing I do note on this and other forums is that the majority of issues reported are from new owners, i.e. people who have purchased a car (sometimes without having a PPI)and who do not really know the car or its history - mostly end up relating to previous poor servicing and can easily be fixed by having the car correctly serviced but someone who know what they are doing.
Find a 964 from another Porsche nutter (i got mine privately through Porsche Post) and the car will be as good as anything out there.
Strap on a few mods (cup-pipe, cat by-pass K&N filter) and have it mapped and it will easily produce 280 bhp.
964 - the best there is, just make sure you fine a good one.
Good hunting
Andy
che6mw said:
slippydiff said:
Ahhh, a fellow insomniac !
You'll hate me for saying it but I can sleep anywhere and everywhere - staying awake is the issue
Git !
che6mw, Is this going to be a toy for the weekend or an everyday car ?
Are you familiar with the "problems" the 964 can suffer with ? if not you need to get a full and thorough PPI done on the car you propose buying, which should also include a compression or leakdown test (most seem to favour the latter)It won't be cheap but will give you huge leverage for negotiation on the price.
Special attention should be given to oil leaks (if this means having the engine washed down properly to establish exactly what is leaking so be it)
Most oil leaks are an irratation but not a show stopper (so if having a few drops of oil on your driveway/garage floor is a problem for you, choose your car with care)
If used purely as a weekend toy, costs will obviously be lower than if your planning to use it to do the daily commute.
If you can buy a car that's had a documented and recent(ish) top end rebuild (and with a bit of luck a clutch) by someone who knows what they're doing, you should escape the worst case scenario.
If not, the results of your leakdown test and a clutch replacement need to be factored into the purchase price.
I've made no mention of dual mass flywheels as it's unlikely you'll find one still running the original item. But best get it checked to be on the safe side.
Good Luck !!
che6mw said:
ok guys, now you've appeared out of the woodwork can you give me ballpark idea of running costs. Not bothered about depreciation or fuel. More interesting in if I'm going to need to put hundreds of £'s aside a month for maintenance. I know each car is different. What are your thoughts? I don't mind a bit of expense and hassle but if I'm going to spend more time fixing it than driving it then I think I should maybe consider something else.
Also does it qualify for classic car exemptions / insurance?
Tah!
Also does it qualify for classic car exemptions / insurance?
Tah!
Servicing costs dependant upon where you take it. My last oil change (5K) cost about £200 all in with a Porsche specialist. The previous service which was an everything service including all fuilds/belts cost about £600. Brake rotor/pads costs about £100/corner, tires about the same, fuel consumption is about 28/mpg however dependant upon how you drive it. A DME relay costs about £15. Replacement rear windscreen arm about £90, replacement rear light cluster about £100 per corner and £200 for the centre section. Cup-pipe about £120, Cat-by Pass about £140, New brake hoses about £60. These are not expensive cars when compared with something like an M3 PROVIDING you make sure they are serviced correctly. There are now many cars exceeding 200K miles and even a car in the US that has done over 400K without any form of engine rebuild.
As for insurance I have a classic car policy limited to 3.5K/year costs about £340. ALthough I am sure I could get it cheaper if I could be arsed to change.
Finally refer you point about LHD - by far the better car IMHO. As Porsche designed it to be + typically ex-German cars were better maintained that ex-yuppie UK cars. Although you need to hurry as a lot of the really good LHD ex-german cars are now going back to Germany as they are now worth more over there than in the UK - dont believe me - see mobile.de. A friend recently sold is OK, but not mint 1990 LHD C4 Cab in Germany for £19K just 4 month ago. He has now just purchased a another LHD C2 in the UK for 13,250 and will sell it for £17k+ in Germany in the spring. As the pound gets weaker against the euro then the value of these cars will actually increase.
Something to think about.
Andy
964 also my favorite, and along with the 996 easily the best 911 VFM buy. Would agree that LHD is a better drive, I've had LHD and RHD and much prefer the former. Price seems to have dropped out of the market over the last couple of years and 10-12K will buy a very nice car if you look around. Like all PCARS they are cheap to run unless something goes wrong but most 964's will have had all the original weaknesses (DMF, gaskets, Etc)ironed out. High miles isnt really an issue, to quote "buy on condition". Never stretch to buy the motor and always hold some cash in reserve to pay for those things that will need attention and enjoy a great car.
Budget £2000 - £2500 a year to keep a 964 (or indeed any other 911 variant) on the road properly. Don`t think you can keep a Porsche 911 on the road for £500 a year. You can`t. It will keep running but be going downhill when ideally you want to maintain it at the same level or even improve it as you go along.
Obviously if you are able to do work yourself and are happy to fit aftermarket brakes etc then money can be saved. My guesstimations are based on someone having the car maintained by a marque specialist and using the car during the year.
It isn`t a science as different car will require different work to be carried out but over say 5 years you probably won`t be too far away at that.
Henry
Obviously if you are able to do work yourself and are happy to fit aftermarket brakes etc then money can be saved. My guesstimations are based on someone having the car maintained by a marque specialist and using the car during the year.
It isn`t a science as different car will require different work to be carried out but over say 5 years you probably won`t be too far away at that.
Henry
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